★ Create A Clan Fanclub V.3 ★

[Chamrosh]

@whoever is concerned with cats in deserts and water and whatever
Cats evolved in deserts originally, being first domesticated in the fertile crescent in what's now called Mesopotamia, and then in Cyprus, and other places in that sort of region, so they're pretty well adapted to hot and dry. There's also possibly a separate domestication event in Quanhucun, in the P.R.C.. They can withstand temperatures up to 115 Fahrenheit or 46 Celsius, which is pretty high. Highest ever recorded ground temperature worldwide was 58Celsius in Libya, highest in the US was 57Celsius, highest in Europe is 48Celsius, within Greece... and the UK was a gentle 39Celsius. I think those are the regions most likely to be played in.
Basically, countries which have gotten to the point of cat heat exhaustion; Afghanistan, Algeria, Argentina, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bolivia, Bos. & Herz., Burkina Faso, Chad, Cyprus, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lithuania, Myanmar, Nepal, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Portugal, P.R.C., Qatar, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Spain, Sudan (N), Swaziland, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, UAE, Ukraine, USofA, West Sahara, Zambia. I only think that 8 of those have any chance of actually causing anyone to need to do any checks to see if their clan's setting would cause heat exhaustion issues.
If you're country's not listed, your cats should not have any problems with heat exhaustion, basically, unless you're just having them get exhausted because it's hot, not getting actual heat exhaustion. Except if you're clan's country's really humid... That's an entirely different issue. See places like Hong Kong, Belize, or anything else on a tropic.

@Simon
I like the idea there, and would be up for it, but I'm aware that just that on its own would give everyone an incentive to not have desert clans unless they were going hardcore. Maybe if desert has a clear drawback, other types of environment could too. Like, coastal clans can have tidal waves or something, tundra clans have an increased chance of getting a cold throughout the whole year, etc. I mean, I don't know how they'd all work, and I don't know how many would be needed. Potentially, if it's a really huge number you could kind of have a "these are the vague types of territory, and here's a list of balanced cons to each, choose which feel most appropriate to your clan", instead of listing every individual type of clan territory.
Just I think it's better to have slight drawbacks for various forms of territory which pretty much any clan will end up fitting within one of (and you can go in two if you want a challenge) than for just one territory type. Especially as the one territory type's traits thing would (as far as I'm aware) just affect Snakeclan and Scorchclan and that'd be pretty unfair without their consents unless everyone gets affected by something along those lines. And I'm more in favour of everyone getting affected by something.
Also, if there's any huge change to the traits based on just the territory, a lot of people will restart, probably, to have a better territory, with drawbacks they feel are easier to manage, and 10x rate of something negative for one territory is a lot, unless it's more like all types have a slight advantage and a slight disadvantage (eg coastal clans have a slightly easier time catching birds, but have a slight chance to face tidal waves which have some specific negative effect or might be more likely to have bad storm events, or forest clans have a slightly easier time catching squirrels but a mildly increased chance of badgers on the territory, marsh clans will rarely face dogs, but they can get different unique diseases like Weil's or even trenchfoot in winter, which mean they need a larger herb stock, etc.), instead of them all having a big disadvantage. That way people won't just avoid one territory which has a bad trait that they personally dislike, because the good trait should be enough to counter act it.
And imo, if that's the plan I think there should be a general thing where if you don't like the conditions for your territory, it's okay to choose a similar territory type's traits if you're more comfortable with those if there's any plans along this line.
(And I like geography and maps and stuff, in case anyone hadn't guessed, so I'm plenty happy to submit ideas alongside anyone else who wants to give them for potential traits that different ecosystems have which could affect how the clans function, if those sorts of ideas go forwards.)

or the short version: I do quite like the idea of different territories having different risks based on what's around, but idk how they'd really all work. It's definitely better than penalising two clans for things that their creators didn't know would come about at the time of creation without giving a chance for them to just not take that extra challenge if they don't want to.


I am aware I tend to over-think things.

[Simonpet]

@Chamrosh: I agree with the idea of having advantages and drawbacks to each territory, and here's what I came up with:
Desert

• Clans have a better chance of finding small prey but a poorer chance of finding large prey
• Clans would have fewer natural enemies (discounting neighboring clans)
• Clans have a slightly increased chance (5% - 10%) of heatstroke during greenleaf

Forest

• Clans have an equal chance of finding small and large prey during newleaf and greenleaf, and a better chance of finding small prey but a poorer chance of finding large prey during leaffall and leafbare
• Clans would have a few seasonal enemies (primarily during newleaf and greenleaf)
• Clans would have an increased chance (5% - 10%) of flooding and fires

Grassland

• Clans have an equal chance of finding small and large prey during newleaf and greenleaf, and a better chance of finding small prey but a poorer chance of finding large prey during leaffall and leafbare
• Clans would have a few seasonal enemies (primarily during newleaf and greenleaf)
• Clans would have an increased chance (5% - 10%) of flooding and fires

Tundra

• Clans have a better chance of finding large prey but a poorer chance of finding small prey
• Clans would have fewer natural enemies (discounting neighboring clans)
• Clans have a slightly increased chance (5% - 10%) of getting sick during leafbare

I think that this would allow for a fairly equal amount of positives and negatives for each biome type (and I'm not getting into specific biomes like rainforests vs. deciduous forests) because while deserts and tundras have an increased personal risk (getting sick/heatstroke) forests and grasslands would have more unpredictability and natural enemies. Also, I count small prey as being 1-2 servings while large prey is 3+ servings.

[peachycupcake525]

I'm 99% sure my clan is in a grassland. I don't really remember. Most of my clan's prey is fish, though. I think that the things should be split up into some stuff for different temperatures, etc. For example, places that are really hot should have whatever, and places that are really cold should have whatever, and places where there are rivers and stuff could have minor floods or whatever, and dry places should have droughts and stuff.

[Katrione]

@Simon

What about the mountains??

[vampiress_fox]

is it still only four training sessions for apprentices or has that changed?

since i am sure it was missed, and i see Kat has said something, i will quote it, i hope you don't mind.

[Simonpet]

@Peachy: That would mean that you're splitting the forest into multiple biomes (boreal forest, temperate deciduous forest, scrub forest, tropical rainforest, temperate rainforest). I was just generalizing and of course, things would be rolled slightly differently, especially if your territory covers 2+ biomes. Also, I forgot to add droughts to the forest/grassland list of natural disasters. c:

@Kat: Mountains would be classified based on the other biomes. A mountain isn't a biome, so it would be classified according to everything else. Is your mountain really cold, covered in snow, and would be at home in Russia? Probably a tundra. Does it have lots of forests? Probably one of the many forests, with the type determined by temperature, rainfall, and tree types. Is your mountain very barren and have lots of rocks with little prey and presumably little rainfall? Technically that's a desert because of their similarities. Then, grasslands is the typical grassy hill...except a lot bigger to make it like a mountain. Although I would assume that most mountains fall somewhere along the range of forest, tundra and desert, at least in my experience.

@training: Once the three basic skills for warrior apprentices (hunting, fighting, climbing) are learned, could you please roll for the other skills (stealth, tracking, fishing, swimming) on the list? Also, please roll for a duplicate of the main three, which would just mean mastery. c: Then, for medicine cat apprentices, they'd also learn healing and herb knowledge, after which you can roll for the other skills too.

[Arya22]

Very random, but I can't wait for purrfect's next next post!
My first time with kits, if it all goes well.

[Chamrosh]

@Simon
Yup, that's pretty much exactly what I meant there~
I was sort of thinking there being a couple which seem unrelated but are essentially the same, but those types of things would fall in (eg the badgers example would fall into natural enemies). I really like that general format as well, of having perks all be sort of mirrors of each other.
I also agree mountains aren't really a separate biome, just it's pretty close to tundra on most mountains, and that's kinda good enough. Maybe the player can put in extra dangers if they want but these are just the mods' inputs to the extra dangers, which would fit if we kind of think of mountains as basically a more extreme tundra setting and so on?
I think the only major group missing there (and I'm guessing it's fairly major due to Shadowclan) is marshes. This would also fit for areas on river deltas, between islands, and in sand dune systems. Basically, anywhere with water that's not pressured to move around very rapidly, that's a major part of the territory.
Almost certainly not this exactly, but maybe something along the lines of:

They do not encounter so much prey, but there is a chance of encountering carrion, which is extra food which can be taken back to camp by hunters, with some sort of extra function involving a very mild negative and slightly larger bonus. Like maybe it doesn't count to how much prey the hunters are taken back but you have to consume an extra portion of carrion to feed your clan when using carrion, as an example idea.
Clans have fewer natural enemies
The clan suffers heat strokes and colds more rarely, but is more likely to encounter a range of other sorts of sicknesses
This would basically be a relatively accurate summary of marshland biomes generally, assuming England to be the default bc the original series is based in the New Forest (supposedly) which means that basing off of English settings probably is just easiest for the sake of settings? Basically:
Most creatures don't like living in swamps, but people have a habit of dropping litter near swamps, so there's a decent chance of encountering it, especially bearing in mind that the water may have carried it there. Also, birds like shrikes like marshlands, and shrikes skewer prey on tall plants, and the cats might be able to collect them and so on. Plus... Southern England (like the New Forest) is ridiculously over crowded in some parts, so there genuinely are just huge piles of rubbish in a lot of places, like there's one about a mile from where I live, and it always smells horrendous, and clans might have a system like Shadowclan where they just go pilfer from it when there's not a lot of prey around and so on. I mean, I feel like looking for carrion when hunting is a very Shadowclan thing to do, and also a very "well, we're stuck in a marsh, where else is the food?" thing to do.
Pretty much the only creatures I can think of who actually like swamps and would be big enough to take down a cat are caimans, large water snakes, crocodiles and alligators. They'd probably all be fairly easy to avoid by staying on land, so probably encounters would be fairly low (especially using a British setting, as no where in Britain has much of a wild population of these...)
My thinking here is water has a pretty high specific heat capacity, which basically means it doesn't change temperature easily, so marshland territories should always be moving towards a sort of mean temperature. That said, swamps are hosts to rats, whose... output causes Weil's disease, which is pretty severe, and then being around water constantly is bound to lead to other diseases.
-So swamps have a pressure for med cats to be finding a lot of new herbs, but in a realistic swamp environment that should be fairly simple, as swamps are generally pretty good for high biodiversity of plants- at least, in Southern England, like where the New Forest is.

And the final idea for a biome I can think of is having an urban clan, that sort of scrounges around towns and so on, and they can either just pick the biome outside the city if they're in the suburbs, or have something like: there is a really, really high chance of encountering rats and mice to eat, all the time, but there are a lot of dogs/foxes around, so there's a strong encouragement for clans to be really focused on their fighting skills or stealth skills, creating the kind of alley cats you generally see in actual cities by divergent selection, while there still actually being choice for what the clan's like. I don't think anyone has an urban clan though, so it's probably less worthwhile discussing as an idea.

[Simonpet]

@Chamrosh: Swamps actually fall into the forest category but I agree that different types of forests should have different advantages/disadvantages. This is what I used to find all the info. As to urban environments, cats who are found through patrols would also be more likely to be sterilized, so it puts some extra pressure on the non-sterilized cats to have a lot of kits (2-3 litters) although the first few cats (up to 10, maybe?) would be non-sterilized to make it fair.

[Katrione]

@Vamp

You have to have a minimum of 4 sessions.
The apprentices need to learn hunting, fighting and climbing. Swimming is also one but it can be switched out with another skill if the territory doesn't have anywhere they can swim. After that, you can have the apprentices learn whatever they want