"The" Rares List Guide - Do not ask about new UR's!

[DaDwarf]

So what is the current course of action? Make a poll or not?

What would go in the poll, if people agree to taking out demand? I pwrsonally dont a need to ask that because we already know demand is the issue so.. might aswell go ahead?

[Imabox]

I don't really see a need to throw another poll up since we know the big issue and to my knowledge we only have one list idea that will help tackle the demand problem and doesn't have a ton of problems. So I think we should go ahead with making a new list to see how well it does.

[marmoris]

So what is the current course of action? Make a poll or not?

What would go in the poll, if people agree to taking out demand? I pwrsonally dont a need to ask that because we already know demand is the issue so.. might aswell go ahead?

I just wanted to jump in to say..

The idea of a demand-free list is nice, but i doubt anybody will follow it. Why not create an ADDED list that shows people the TRUE worth of their pet.. (well, as true as we can make it. we don't know exact values but..) I think we should keep / update our current list (ex, moving up pets that DO need moving up) and add another section that is the "real" list, you could call it per say.
Is there a reason this cannot be done..? I'm not saying the current list should become a "demand" list in the way some people always suggest.

Wouldn't this maybe help demand..? I mean, if people see the current list they think; oh! my cerb is WORTH that much but demand makes it much higher! (this is NOT held true for EVERY member, but its just to sum up a majority.. i suppose. Cerb is a bad example but still.)

If this is something previously discussed and had flaws, what are they?

and to clarify this again; I am NOT saying to make a completely demand based list as many always suggest. I want this to be clear so my idea is not misunderstood.

edit;

I also just realized that since store pets are actually becoming very elusive, it would be hard to update both of these lists. I know the skelebun is getting ATG (above gap) offers as those are usually what kind of offers i get and trying to update them on account of the demand on the current list then doing something with them on the rarity list is tricky. sorry if this makes no sense, im rushing but i HAD to write this now before i forget.

[nickjr]

@Redpanda As far as I can tell, your suggested list is basically what the current List is supposed to be...? What were you thinking of changing/removing from what is currently taken into consideration when pets are placed onto the current List?

[shook]

@redpanda your suggestion is basically what the list is now.


Heres my idea. Every few months move pets up or down depending on demand or having this list but by pets put in below the pets name where demand puts them say

dark leopard
= black avent
(Worth sorbet in demand)

Or something that writes pets that have demand or something like that so people look at the rares list and see how it is or.. just change the list every month depending on the demand worth of pets

[bvrd]

@Redpanda As far as I can tell, your suggested list is basically what the current List is supposed to be...? What were you thinking of changing/removing from what is currently taken into consideration when pets are placed onto the current List?

i was just about to say the same thing but kept proofreading incase i missed something.

im still set on the fact that having two list is a bit pointless and users would still use the rares list no matter what.

The idea of a demand-free list is nice, but i doubt anybody will follow it.

but there would be nothing to follow on the rarity list.
the whole point is so trading can become more lenient and not forced to pay x pet for x pet cause demand said so, the point is so the players can trade what they want for what they want and actually working something out instead of saying "well ba's go for nons so i want a non or something worth more" (example, i have no idea what they go for at all)

@dd well we already know demand is the biggest issue and the rarity list would take care of that, so imo i say we should move on with the rarity list and start putting it together and then figure out what needs to be fixed/improved with that list once a rough draft gets going.

@2016 to figure out each and every single pets demand then switching their placements would take a lot of reviewing trades and in the end probably wouldn't even be accurate at all since demand changes a lot and at random times, not every couple months.

[Lya]

So, I didn't really want to jump into discussion today, because I was at work and I'm extremely sore and tired, but I'm going to comment anyway. xD


I have seen many people voice concern about "a rarity-only list not being used to trade". Well, that's not what it's there for, imo. At least not in the way as it is meant by those users.
It is meant as a solid basis to develop a trade on.
I don't know if newer users have ever experienced a trade where you actually negotiate with your trading partner or not (since I seldomly see people who are even willing to edit a trade instead of cancelling when they don't like the initial offer), so let me try to explain it with an example:

User 1 sends a trade to User 2: "Would you like to trade your Moonswirl for my UR Malk?"
[[Note: Those two pets went up in rarity at the same time, so their rarity is pretty much equal.]]

User 2: "Oh, I love Malk pets! But I think the Moonswirl has better demand, plus this one is a true-date which are hard to come by. Could you maybe add a bit to your side of the trade? Another july '08 pet perhaps?"

User 1: "I only have this spare Purple Toxic that I could add and this Dalmatian from '09 that is on your wishlist. Would this be alright, too?"

User 2: "That's perfect! I was looking everywhere for that last Dalmatian! Thank you for the trade."

Would this trade be considered fair going by the current list? Nope.
Would it be alright if both people were happy with the trade? Yes.

The moment somebody says "But you could have gotten more for your Moonswirl" when it concerns two pets that are proven to be of equal rarity, people are taught greed. Telling them the trade was unfair would be plain out wrong.
Personally, if I know two pets are of exact same rarity and somebody told me that their pet was worth more than mine, I'd consider it a try to scam me. And 'though I know this won't happen I'd love to see THAT being pulled through by the admins.

I know this would (or will) be something that many need to get accustomed to, because it means actually taking the time to think about a trade instead of just hitting accept or cancel if they truly want to trade.
I mean, it's the total opposite of what we're used to from RL. In RL everything in a shop has a set value and that's it (at least in the "industrial countries"). No need (and no room) to haggle on anything. That's what some people want for CS, but that's not how trading works because people pay whatever they want to pay. |D

[Goostarion]

A no demand list will resort in users needing to think for themselves.
Here is a guide, guide is rarity based only. Your job if you want a fair trade is to figure that out yourself. By all accounts 'x' = 'y' + whatever and your job is to determine what 'whatever' is worth. Is it worth overpay? Is it worth underpay? That is where the demand comes in. If the guide isn't glorifying demand, it's glorifying the use of person initiative which is something that has been lost with one gaze into the FTT. In the end, all you want from a trade is for it to be accepted.

Another thing is who is the boss of demand? No one. There will never be a list that is demand based which can accurately teach demand. Dividing the list into two lists is unnecessary busy work and it won't work, people will just end up following the Demand list because who doesn't want sweet overpay if it is seen as something which is morally ok. I mean, without intention to sound like a cow: "Why trade genetically fairly when I can get more because demand is being more glorified than before?"

Those who tradeblist pets will always look to try and become pixel rich. You see it on Rares list trade thread and you see it when a noob player asks for help on FTT, ending up in a slight ninja trading.

[DaDwarf]

@grr. I think you are confused at to what a rarity only list means ^^; obviously, a pet that is now up top on the rareslist wont suddenly go for peanuts. We already have a compiled list of which pets went rare when. The current list we have isnt based on just loose guestemates, its years of work and research that formed this list. Part of that research is also rarity.

A pet that went vr a year after something else was already vr is obviously worth less. A pet that became vr right upon its release is probably rarer then a pet that just turned vr. These are things to look at. No demand will 'slip through the cracks' when you look at hard statistics, what had which rarity tag when, and when did it go up or down and why. Theres no demand in that, theres just fact?

Also 'older by rarity' and 'lower in rarity' i have no idea what you mean with this? The ur tiger was pretty much omg so rare right of the bat, a sorbet has never been omg so rare. In fact, we even know that the sorbets were rare at some point, so obviously the tiger is rarer? Idk what else you couldve meant with that so please explain if im understanding it wrong lol

[kee;]

After reading the most recent discussion, I've become a little bit confused.
What's this talk about two lists? I was under the impression that if we were to make a rarity list, that it would replace the current list. I thought that this was the way we thought would help to battle demand. If both were kept, everyone could just ignore the new one and keep in using the old one.
If I didn't misunderstand something earlier and the rarity list would be replacing the current one, eventually it would become the new base of rares list trading. Right off the bat it may confuse people and many would likely still revert back to the old one they more or less have stored away somewhere in their mind (or actually written done somewhere in the case of some users). But eventually, as new users learn the new list and current list traders adjust to the new one, it wouldn't be confusing anymore and would be accepted by the community. This is why I'm not too convinced by the argument that it would be too confusing or aimokybwouldnt be used. Would it be accepted and used solely overnight? No, but nothing that's different or changes is. It would take a bit of time but eventually it would be integrated into the trading community.

I hope everything that I said makes sense and that I didn't misunderstand something. If I did this was a complete waste to post. XD

-kee