CS Rares+ Guide

[The Last Raven]

And also I do think it is important to note that a lot of people are being very rude and hateful to the op. They are a person too, you can state your issues without being disrespectful. They aren’t doing anything against the rules and as I’ve said and would keep saying; you do not get to decide whether they make it or not.

Thus fair I do not see any rudeness, just pure bluntness coming from people who have experienced these arguments before on the old list. We definitely are stating facts of how lists work and not being disrespectful. The hate you see is not aimed at the OP, it is aimed at a list with the same flaws as the previous one returning to the community after the community shutting down the last one.
The community’s wishes should be respected. They wanted it gone for a reason.

[coppercanary]

I would just like to point out, as many have done before me, that rarity should be what trading is based upon. Demand fluctuates constantly, and a list based purely on demand that does not take rarity much into account will make the demand for the pets go even higher. People will take the list value as a base price and build on it, making demand go even higher. For pets such as the joker and ravendog this has happened enough; it does not need to go on any more.

As for adding pets like the Shima longtail and PPS dragon cat to the list, their demand is much, much higher than their actual worth. Anyone who trades a PPS dragon cat for a mainlist is scamming the user with the mainlist. They are simply not worth that much, and this should be taken into account when creating this list. If they are placed highly, as stated before, their demand will simply skyrocket and it will be impossible to get a fair trade for them.

[dimi.]

I've gone ahead and made a poll just so we can see what the community wants - please just state your honest opinion ^^

Do you want a new rares list?

that'll be on all my posts from this point on ^^ OP might not make a poll, but we will.

sorry, but even hard work sometimes doesn't factor out that the decision is NOT good. it isn't on us that you started work before considering what the community would want; that's just flat out a business flaw on you : /

rarity is what matters, demand should just be user based for what they want to trade.

[phxyvi]

I would just like to point out, as many have done before me, that rarity should be what trading is based upon. Demand fluctuates constantly, and a list based purely on demand that does not take rarity much into account will make the demand for the pets go even higher. People will take the list value as a base price and build on it, making demand go even higher. For pets such as the joker and ravendog this has happened enough; it does not need to go on any more.

As for adding pets like the Shima longtail and PPS dragon cat to the list, their demand is much, much higher than their actual worth. Anyone who trades a PPS dragon cat for a mainlist is scamming the user with the mainlist. They are simply not worth that much, and this should be taken into account when creating this list. If they are placed highly, as stated before, their demand will simply skyrocket and it will be impossible to get a fair trade for them.

Then perhaps including an certain amount of trades linking this value should be included? Would that not solve a lot of problems? It’s difficult to elevate something past its value when evidence stating otherwise is staring you in the face. “Demand makes this worth more than its placement” is null when you look and see that’s not true.

It would require it to Be updated more frequently though, with RECENT successful trades of similar values shown

And you’d have to filter those random overtrades (ie. people saying the dragon cat is worth a sorb because a handful of trades like those popped up)

[Kittytalia]

Appreciations
Firstly, thank you @ssniperwolf, @DrMoneyBags, and others who have been understanding of my reasoning to make this list. As for everyone else, thank you so much for your feedback. I understand how scary it is to have a new list in the works, and I want to see more of your feedback so I can make this the very best list it can be. Like you all said, I do not want to repeat past mistakes.

Community Involvement...
I understand that a poll would show the exact numerical value of how many people would like this versus who would rather see it dead, however, your comments do that job for you already, and I hear you loud and clear. If you have another idea for a poll or change to the thread that you would like to share, I'm all ears!

Dragon Cat and Shima...
They will not be placed highly. They will not be equal to main lists, no matter how my previous words may have been interpreted. They will be in a list similar to advent value: a lower list of rares and very rares that are notable for their demand. I hope this clears up some confusion c:

[The Last Raven]

I would just like to point out, as many have done before me, that rarity should be what trading is based upon. Demand fluctuates constantly, and a list based purely on demand that does not take rarity much into account will make the demand for the pets go even higher. People will take the list value as a base price and build on it, making demand go even higher. For pets such as the joker and ravendog this has happened enough; it does not need to go on any more.

As for adding pets like the Shima longtail and PPS dragon cat to the list, their demand is much, much higher than their actual worth. Anyone who trades a PPS dragon cat for a mainlist is scamming the user with the mainlist. They are simply not worth that much, and this should be taken into account when creating this list. If they are placed highly, as stated before, their demand will simply skyrocket and it will be impossible to get a fair trade for them.

Then perhaps including an certain amount of trades linking this value should be included? Would that not solve a lot of problems? It’s difficult to elevate something past its value when evidence stating otherwise is staring you in the face. “Demand makes this worth more than its placement” is null when you look and see that’s not true.

Trades can be falsified with the help of friends. I have watched people do outlandish trades with their friends just to inflate demand. Trade proof isn’t that trustworthy. Plus just because one person got that trade doesn’t mean that’s what it goes for now. And yes people will still elevate demand no matter what. Because “well I paid this so now I want more so that I make a profit”.

[dimi.]

-snip-


Then perhaps including an certain amount of trades linking this value should be included? Would that not solve a lot of problems? It’s difficult to elevate something past its value when evidence stating otherwise is staring you in the face. “Demand makes this worth more than its placement” is null when you look and see that’s not true.

linking trades wouldn't quite change anything, evren though it sounds like a good idea in theory; they would have to be trades from a wide variety of users, not just the same people that follow the logic of the previous list. it would be too difficult to actually gauge the value from the opinion of just a few trades, since there can always be under and over outliers.

Appreciations
Firstly, thank you @ssniperwolf, @DrMoneyBags, and others who have been understanding of my reasoning to make this list. As for everyone else, thank you so much for your feedback. I understand how scary it is to have a new list in the works, and I want to see more of your feedback so I can make this the very best list it can be. Like you all said, I do not want to repeat past mistakes.

Community Involvement...
I understand that a poll would show the exact numerical value of how many people would like this versus who would rather see it dead, however, your comments do that job for you already, and I hear you loud and clear. If you have another idea for a poll or change to the thread that you would like to share, I'm all ears!

Dragon Cat and Shima...
They will not be placed highly. They will not be equal to main lists, no matter how my previous words may have been interpreted. They will be in a list similar to advent value: a lower list of rares and very rares that are notable for their demand. I hope this clears up some confusion c:

the fact that we as a community had to make our own poll to show you our voices is honestly sad, since you're gonna be at the head of this thread. if you hear us "loud and clear", you need to acknowledge us and make a poll yourself. otherwise, you're honestly just making yourself look bad in this situation.

if you don't want to repeat past mistakes either, don't do exactly what the last thread did. make it more rarity focus, or it will honestly become a laughing stock for us. it'll repeat history.

I've gone ahead and made a poll just so we can see what the community wants - please just state your honest opinion ^^

Do you want a new rares list?

[The Last Raven]

Appreciations
Firstly, thank you @ssniperwolf, @DrMoneyBags, and others who have been understanding of my reasoning to make this list. As for everyone else, thank you so much for your feedback. I understand how scary it is to have a new list in the works, and I want to see more of your feedback so I can make this the very best list it can be. Like you all said, I do not want to repeat past mistakes.

Community Involvement...
I understand that a poll would show the exact numerical value of how many people would like this versus who would rather see it dead, however, your comments do that job for you already, and I hear you loud and clear. If you have another idea for a poll or change to the thread that you would like to share, I'm all ears!

Dragon Cat and Shima...
They will not be placed highly. They will not be equal to main lists, no matter how my previous words may have been interpreted. They will be in a list similar to advent value: a lower list of rares and very rares that are notable for their demand. I hope this clears up some confusion c:

If you don’t want to repeat past mistakes then you shouldn’t include demand because that was the past’s biggest mistake. Please listen to us. Many have mentioned that we would support a list that did not include demand. If you want the community to back you and not just a few people you really need to consider the issues at hand.

[phxyvi]

I would just like to point out, as many have done before me, that rarity should be what trading is based upon. Demand fluctuates constantly, and a list based purely on demand that does not take rarity much into account will make the demand for the pets go even higher. People will take the list value as a base price and build on it, making demand go even higher. For pets such as the joker and ravendog this has happened enough; it does not need to go on any more.

As for adding pets like the Shima longtail and PPS dragon cat to the list, their demand is much, much higher than their actual worth. Anyone who trades a PPS dragon cat for a mainlist is scamming the user with the mainlist. They are simply not worth that much, and this should be taken into account when creating this list. If they are placed highly, as stated before, their demand will simply skyrocket and it will be impossible to get a fair trade for them.

Then perhaps including an certain amount of trades linking this value should be included? Would that not solve a lot of problems? It’s difficult to elevate something past its value when evidence stating otherwise is staring you in the face. “Demand makes this worth more than its placement” is null when you look and see that’s not true.

Trades can be falsified with the help of friends. I have watched people do outlandish trades with their friends just to inflate demand. Trade proof isn’t that trustworthy. Plus just because one person got that trade doesn’t mean that’s what it goes for now. And yes people will still elevate demand no matter what. Because “well I paid this so now I want more so that I make a profit”.

That is why it would need to be a notable amount of them. And over a period, so that it is a CONSISTENT value.

And to avoid things like that- using places like the FTT would be useful because there are a lot of trades there that are organic. Not falsely made to push their value.

It is a bit,, unrealistic? To think someone would be able to go through the trouble of trading about one pet for more than it’s worth over an extended time period for increased value so that its value as a whole slowly creeps up.

Who has the time for that?

[Targaryen]

I really don't personally see the problem with having a list that incorporates going rates for demand. I'm sick of this ridiculous scaremongering about demand and there's dozens of other lists... so just use one you agree with if you don't like that this includes demand. ^^

The list should exist for those who want to worry about demand. If you care more about rarity, join a rarity project instead.

Seasonal put it exceptionally well - I'll bump it

Hey guys, I completely understand that there are mixed opinions about this, but anyone is welcome to create their own pet rarity guide. If they want to include demand in their guide, that is completely up to them. You don't have to follow this guide if you don't want to. You don't have to follow the old guide if you don't want to. You can make your own guide purely based off of trade data and pet ratios if you'd like to.

Personally, I think it would be great to place high-demand pets higher than they were on the old list. It is absolutely unfair to watch newer players get scammed because they are unaware of what people trade their Jokers or Ravens for. Yeah, the Raven is "worth" an Advent, but you will never find a trading partner who's going to accept that deal. This creates a very easy avenue for informed users to scam less active users. Quite frankly, supporting that behavior makes me uncomfortable.

The list is about keeping people informed of their pet values. If people are trading X for Y, then the list should be updated to reflect that. I don't think either side will ever come to a conclusion that everyone is happy with, but in no way is any list written in stone or enforced by the site. You can trade your pets however you'd like to.

At the end of the day, NONE of us truly know what pets are the rarest because we simply do not have that data to work with and we never will, unless we gather it ourselves by counting each individual pet released on the site. The old list was probably horrid compared to the actual pet data.

Maybe a better name for this guide would be something like, a pet guide that reflects the current market price of pets?

Don't like it? Don't use it.

I'm probably not going to bother entertaining any arguments regarding how demand lists affect current demand in a more negative way, that demand is bad or doesn't belong in the trading economy, that people shouldn't be entitled to value things based on a demand value which is irrefutable. List trading probably isn't for you at all if you believe anything along these lines. Demand isn't a boogeyman.