*DISCONTINUED* Rares List Guide (1 March 2019)

[SabrinaB]

I'd like to make a small comment:
Some people voted UR Holly tier, simply so they can try to get it cheaper.
Perhaps they do no better, but why vote to place it higher when there is a cheaper version. That only means saving up more.

Note: this is not an opinion i share, i just want to show a diffrent reason for people to vote the lowest option.

[nickjr]

What would happen if we included a really wide range of options, including options that are clearly not probable (e.g. Red-X PPS/Wolf PPS tier)? Because the current options are close enough that it's hard to guess whether people voted for UR Holly tier because it's the lowest option they can get away with (it seems valid, after all), because it's the lowest option at all (going on autopilot), or because they legit believe it's the right place for whatever reason they have.

If we run another poll and include some placements that are really bad...
> if the votes suddenly pile up at the bottom, then there's your answer: people just wanted to get the UR Peach cheaper
> if the votes pile up a little lower than UR Holly, then people are probably still trying to get it cheaper but don't think they could get away with the lowest options
> if the votes still pile up at UR Holly, I guess people really think that UR Holly is a good tier

The problem is that I've posted this publicly

[Joof]

I believe we should use the poll as a factor of where to place the UR Peach and the other UR’s we still need to think about. If we took the poll away, those who vote with the poll will feel unheard and feel that it’s not fair that their opinion isn’t used. A lot of people don’t have trades of their own as evidence to use to show how much an UR is worth. No everyone has pets that have a high value. Some people only have the poll as an option. It would not be fair to the community to take the poll away from them.
Everyone should have a fair chance in voting and have an opinion on where the UR’s should be placed. Nobody should be ignored because people believe “they don’t know better”. Not everyone has the same level of knowledge when it comes to trading and things such as demand and what some pets are valued at.

Well. If people feel unheard when we take the poll away, that's their own problem/fault. They could just post on the thread, Like we all are doing it right now.
They can voice their opinion and it's up to them if they are to lazy to post.
The only problem (regarding this) I really see is that coopa players won't be able to vote...
Other than that, people can just post their opinions...

[lil rascal]

I won't quote all the posts as anyone interested can just read the last few pages but Sinbreaker brings up a lot of concerns I've raised before and I wholeheartedly agree that it makes no sense to suddenly decide to take rarity highly into account for the peach when it's already been stated that none of the other low OMGSR URs are going to be raised on the current list. I'm all for taking rarity into account more, but only if it's going to apply to all pets, not just one or two here and there.

As I've mentioned before the poll options were selected after the trades had been looked at, I really don't think it's fair to the community who took the time to vote to turn around and say "nope you're wrong, we're going to do it our way" when they were specifically asked to vote on the options that were provided to them.

I'd also like to point out that when it comes to trades shared here and on the thread asking for trades they are not necessarily the best way to judge a pets trading value as people are more likely to post about the really good/overpay deal they got for their pet than a trade considered average or lower. Likewise someone who has paid average or lower for a pet is unlikely to share the trade as they aren't going to want to bring down the value of the pet they just got.

For reference here are some accepted trades I dug up posted before the Peach placement discussion started here, don't have time right now to hunt further but there are lots of trades out there if anyone else has some time

Dec 23 '17

Nov 20 '17

Nov 10 '17 (Value depends on how you value the store pets but I believe the Eat Me was going for around 1-1.5 sorbs at the time)

Nov 5 '17 (Value depends on whether you value to flower at list placement or demand placement)

Nov 3 '17

Sep 18 '17

Edit -

Just saw nickjr's idea and I think that is a good idea if people are really worried people are trying to vote down the value rather than voting for what they really believe. I also think if there are future polls there should be the option for people to change their vote.

[Solloby]

It's frustrating to see the thread unable to move forward. Perhaps we should take a step back and decide what our next move should be rather than continue to argue over the pet's placement. Is this an accurate summarisation of our situation and options?

1. Place UR Peach at UR Lion tier - people don't want to do it because it ignores poll results
2. Place UR Peach at UR Holly tier - people don't want to do it because it ignores trades
3. Bench UR Peach and look at another pet instead - people don't want to because the peach placement is way overdue
4. Wait for the Rarity List - it is likely multiple months away
5. Create another poll - what if people don't like the results of that one either?
6. Make another effort at gathering as many trade links as we can, remove too old/new/outliers then calculate the average trade value from there - isn't this how we normally value pets?

Happy to hear more suggestions for how to move forward, otherwise I propose we pick option 6 because we seem to be going around in circles otherwise.

[Topsy Turvey]

I won't quote all the posts as anyone interested can just read the last few pages but Sinbreaker brings up a lot of concerns I've raised before and I wholeheartedly agree that it makes no sense to suddenly decide to take rarity highly into account for the peach when it's already been stated that none of the other low OMGSR URs are going to be raised on the current list. I'm all for taking rarity into account more, but only if it's going to apply to all pets, not just one or two here and there.

As I've mentioned before the poll options were selected after the trades had been looked at, I really don't think it's fair to the community who took the time to vote to turn around and say "nope you're wrong, we're going to do it our way" when they were specifically asked to vote on the options that were provided to them.

I'd also like to point out that when it comes to trades shared here and on the thread asking for trades they are not necessarily the best way to judge a pets trading value as people are more likely to post about the really good/overpay deal they got for their pet than a trade considered average or lower. Likewise someone who has paid average or lower for a pet is unlikely to share the trade as they aren't going to want to bring down the value of the pet they just got.

For reference here are some accepted trades I dug up posted before the Peach placement discussion started here, don't have time right now to hunt further but there are lots of trades out there if anyone else has some time

Dec 23 '17

Nov 20 '17

Nov 10 '17 (Value depends on how you value the store pets but I believe the Eat Me was going for around 1-1.5 sorbs at the time)

Nov 5 '17 (Value depends on whether you value to flower at list placement or demand placement)

Nov 3 '17

Sep 18 '17

Edit -

Just saw nickjr's idea and I think that is a good idea if people are really worried people are trying to vote down the value rather than voting for what they really believe. I also think if there are future polls there should be the option for people to change their vote.

This, this has been my opinion since this discussion started but I've given up trying to make a point because no one listens unless it's the majority. I found that before this discussion when I had the Peach I traded it for a max value of 1.5 Sorbets, and that was me struggling to get the '2-3 Sorbets' the FTT said it got. But since the discussion came up and everyone was demanding it was worth a non and this is a very popular and easy to see thread for a small while it started going for Nons on a semi regular basis but that was a bout of fake demand because of this discussion and as soon as the Peach is placed it'll likely go for what it was going for before this discussion which from what I saw was anywhere from 1-2 sorbs being the most common to the very occasional non. Which is why I don't mind the idea of the UR Holly Tier, it is more than what I got for mine BUT this when its fake demand settles it would be a good way of raising the rarity a bit more realistically while letting people pay what they want since it's somewhat in the middle of the average offer. Like the UR Holly some people will value it at Nons, others at its true value and some at below that. But I think that if you place it higher than it actually went for once the original demand had settled down and before the fake demand spout then I think it'll make the demand plummet, like the Banana, Pickle ect. Of course I could be wrong and it could go for Nons steadily but it's not a generally high demanded fruit so I think the more you push it the further it'll fall.

[The Last Raven]

I believe we should use the poll as a factor of where to place the UR Peach and the other UR’s we still need to think about. If we took the poll away, those who vote with the poll will feel unheard and feel that it’s not fair that their opinion isn’t used. A lot of people don’t have trades of their own as evidence to use to show how much an UR is worth. No everyone has pets that have a high value. Some people only have the poll as an option. It would not be fair to the community to take the poll away from them.
Everyone should have a fair chance in voting and have an opinion on where the UR’s should be placed. Nobody should be ignored because people believe “they don’t know better”. Not everyone has the same level of knowledge when it comes to trading and things such as demand and what some pets are valued at.

Well. If people feel unheard when we take the poll away, that's their own problem/fault. They could just post on the thread, Like we all are doing it right now.
They can voice their opinion and it's up to them if they are to lazy to post.
The only problem (regarding this) I really see is that coopa players won't be able to vote...
Other than that, people can just post their opinions...

I completely disagree with it being their own "fault". You have to admit that posting here is intimidating. Look what is happening just now. If you don't agree with certain people and certain opinions you get attacked. I have heard from countless people that they are too scared to post here because of the environment that has been created here. The environment created here has become "we're right, you're wrong so shut up and listen." There are so many people out there that feel like they won't be listened to if they DO post. That is why voting for something gave them an option for have a voice without coming and posting and being attacked. Right now what I am seeing is this is going back to an "elitist led" discussion and it shouldn't. There were plenty of trades shown that the peach trades for less than a nonbut they were shot down.

HERE IS THE ISSUE WITH TRADE PROOF.
Not everyone posts their trades. I have watched the trades and only those with outstanding trades share them. This skews the information.

Edit:I understand you are frustrated. It is exhausting seeing the discussion get now where. But guess who else is frustrated. Everyone out there who voted and now no one wants to listen. Not everyone voted because that was the lowest option. Are we really making a decision about them and just deciding they are "bad people" that just want to gain from the peach being placed lower? Are we really saying that they aren't good enough to have a real opinion?

[s a g e]

Just want to point out my opinion to the peach:

A lot of users are saying that people voted for UR holly tier because they want to trade easier for the peach.
I disagree on this point.
It may be that some voted for this option because they wanted to have a peach "cheaper", but the last option is definitely the majority. And even if the half of these 576 people voted because of the point I already mentioned, there would be still a majority who support this option compared to the "non" option and "Ur Lion" option.
I also voted for the last option ( "UR holly" option) because of my experience I made with the peach ( at this point I agree with Topsy Turvey).

And a lot of you are saying " they voted all because they don't know better " " they voted all because they wanted it cheaper", but there are also some people who voted for the " Ur Lion " option with the intention on making profit.
And it makes to me no sense at all placing the peach at the UR Lion tier, ignoring the 576 people and just orientate on 10 trades instead of believing these 576 votes.
There are also some users who have experience but never post anything.

And another point:
If you look at the "rares list swap " Thread and use the search function for the peach, there are A LOT of people valuing the peach at 2 sorbets, and I don't think that they would want 2 sorbets for their peach if they could get a non + out of it like all the trades showed.

[SabrinaB]

I am not sure how serious we should look at the poll.
Sure, it gives people a chance to vote.
But not everyone knows the list. Some may have no idea what a sorbet, ur holly or non is worth.
Dont get me wrong, everyone should have a chance to vote.
But how many pets were placed based on a poll and how many were placed based on trades?
I think it's going for more than what its worth because we are feeding the demand with this discussion. People hear us about some tiers and assume its going to be placed there, while it might be possible to be even lower.

Look at the skelebun, since its rarity went up it is going for huge overpay. We dont look at recent trades for that too serious.
We need to find the middle.
(Just example, subject is the peach)

[The Last Raven]

Again, why are we assuming that everyone who voted isn't educated?

Also s a g e brings up a fantastic point. If you assume people are downvoting to more easily get a pet then we must also assume people are upvoting to make more profit. It goes both ways.

Because voting is blind we really cannot assume anything about voters. We don't know who they are or what their background is. Just because you don't like the results doesn't make them invalid.