*DISCONTINUED* Rares List Guide (1 March 2019)

[ElementalInsanity]

Lol, I don’t get the logic there Sin. ‘Even if it’s wrong placement’ -which it is- ‘place it there anyways because community says so’ seems like a really bad way of handling the situation. People may have downvoted because of many reasons: on purpose, because they don’t know better, because they’ve been told it’s worth that much, etc.

Also keep in mind no one can change their vote. I voted holy tier and now I think we should place it higher. And I really agree when it comes to placing pets a poll is not a good answer.

Also it’s been said by myself and many other users to factor rarity in more with placing new pets and then when reconsidering other pets. So that’s why a number are saying that now. Yes that’s not what was done before, but that’s what change is for isn’t it? And we don’t know when the rarity list will even be out. At this point it’s looking to me a year or two.

[Sinbreaker]

Lol, I don’t get the logic there Sin. ‘Even if it’s wrong placement’ -which it is- ‘place it there anyways because community says so’ seems like a really bad way of handling the situation. People may have downvoted because of many reasons: on purpose, because they don’t know better, because they’ve been told it’s worth that much, etc.

Also keep in mind no one can change their vote. I voted holy tier and now I think we should place it higher. And I really agree when it comes to placing pets a poll is not a good answer.

Also it’s been said by myself and many other users to factor rarity in more with placing new pets and then when reconsidering other pets. So that’s why a number are saying that now. Yes that’s not what was done before, but that’s what change is for isn’t it? And we don’t know when the rarity list will even be out. At this point it’s looking to me a year or two.

Here's the thing though, saying users, especially a large majority that voted, don't know better is outlining the problem of elite players I mentioned. 62% of the community who voted "don't know better"?

And if it was so flawed and you believe that players would change their vote, why not run it again and combine the general answers of "before trade evidence votes" and "after"?

I'm saying that, if we plan to make a rarity list yes, pets will be moved. But to start placing pets now based on their rarity doesn't match the current list posted on this thread. The value will be disproportionate to the other pets around it.

I really don't care (in my personal opinion) where it goes because I don't have trading pets anymore, I'm angry that 62% of the community is dismissed because "they don't know better" or even, 82% of the community is ignored, because "they don't know better".

[ElementalInsanity]

Some people don’t actually know any better. There’s nothing wrong with that! There are people who don’t know anything about the rares list, or the gaps list, or don’t understand it.
It’s just that they need to be educated and put forth the effort to learn. I was one of those people two years ago. I hated the rares list and didn’t know a thing about it! But then I took the time to learn it, and such.

So yes, I believe and have seen that a large bit of the community don’t know better, because I’ve been there. I also believe a large amount of people downvote for personal gain because I’ve been there too.
So I’m speaking from personal opinion and personal experience.

I think a poll is a bad idea because those who don’t actually know what is going on can vote anyway, and I may be rude in thinking this way but I believe people who understand the value of what’s going on are the ones that should be placing it.
And I don’t mean that in a demeaning way at all, so don’t misunderstand me. Because anyone can put out a voice and ask questions and learn here on the thread to become more informed about this subject. That’s what I had to do and I think that’s important.

Edit: Also we had the trade evidence before this poll, too, so technically both this poll and another are after all the trade evidence.

[Cellar x Elijah]

We never should have used a poll. Trades are clear evidence of what it actually goes for, which is exactly what value of a pet should be on this thread for a pet that has average demand. The poll was a test to see how it would go. Why an option that was clearly not it's value was included, I don't know. But it happened and it didn't work. Trade evidence is the actual voice of the community about what is being traded for it. And before someone references the Shima or Raven or Joker, those have such skewed increased demand that rarity forces them down further. The Peach has rarity and demand that are both worthy of what trades consistently show it going for, which is why this thread is leaning toward that option. There's a difference between personal opinion and actual evidence of demand, which is why a poll just doesn't work.

~ElijahWilkes

[Sinbreaker]

Then I don't understand why it was left up, or why we don't test out these reason why the poll is so flawed, or seek out other ways to get more community input.

But also, at this point, I don't see it being budged any way other than the Lion tier, because that's what seems like is already agreed and no matter what argument I put forth isn't going to sway that.

[Solloby]

While it sucks that the majority of users who voted in the poll aren't being heard, placing the UR Peach based on the common opinion (poll vote) instead of the common fact (actual trades) makes no sense.

I think the reason the poll failed is because the pets we are asking about are OMGSR, meaning the vast majority of poll voters have not traded them. Before looking at the trade links I had no idea what an UR Peach goes for, surely most other users are in the same shoes as me and also wouldn't know. I didn't vote in the poll for a long time because I had no clue, and was tempted to vote for UR Holly because of the sheep mentality.

[kee;]

Ive been trying to think of how to word this, and this is what I have.
We tried the poll, and it failed. We know the peach is worth more than the poll suggests by the trades we have. So, the poll failed.
But that doesn’t mean we just accept that because that’s what the poll said.
Any time in life, if you fail, you try again. That’s just what this is, in a way.
We failed, so we try again instead of being ok where we are with the failure.

-kee

[Jiloon]

-snip-


Here's the thing though, saying users, especially a large majority that voted, don't know better is outlining the problem of elite players I mentioned. 62% of the community who voted "don't know better"?

And if it was so flawed and you believe that players would change their vote, why not run it again and combine the general answers of "before trade evidence votes" and "after"?

I'm saying that, if we plan to make a rarity list yes, pets will be moved. But to start placing pets now based on their rarity doesn't match the current list posted on this thread. The value will be disproportionate to the other pets around it.

I really don't care (in my personal opinion) where it goes because I don't have trading pets anymore, I'm angry that 62% of the community is dismissed because "they don't know better" or even, 82% of the community is ignored, because "they don't know better".

Sin, I completely agree with you here. Even if the community isn't "listening to the evidence",
you've got to think there's a reason for that. I understand Cellar x Elijah, that it seems odd to have an option that "was clearly not it's value", but so many people value it there, for whatever reasons, that it's obviously a valid option. Especially, I might reiterate from Sin, if 62% of voters placed it there.

But then I'm wondering why several users above me have voiced that they believe the poll has failed. Polls are to show a majority vote, as it has, or to show the varying opinions and voices. Just because it doesn't follow the evidence that many are so keen on,
or just because it doesn't line up with what one personally believes, does not mean it fails.

Elemental Insanity, you bring up the valid point of people having changed their minds about the value of the peach. However,
it probably goes both ways. I'm sure that there are those who, like you, value it higher than they originally did. There are also those who probably think now that it's worth less.

Personally, I voted for the UR Peach to go at the UR Holly tier, or maybe a little above, because that's what I've regularly seen.
I had almost never seen trades like what DaDwarf brought up, and I still don't. It's great that they have those trades compiled for us to see, but I'm not sure it shows the full picture. I voted UR Holly originally, and as I'm sure that nobody can try to argue that I (or Sinbreaker are "uneducated" or "new to Rares List trading", it's unfair to say that those who voted for a lower tier should be discredited as such.

(This may have come off as a little aggressive, I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just trying to match the tone and back up Sin,
who I think is very correct c: )

Edit;

I also want to add that I think having a "Rares List" based entirely off of demand and "evidence" is wrong, and doesn't reflect trading truly. In fact, I believe that it would make trading very unfair if it became the one and only List used. A person could still try to trade off their Zebra, and it would still go for far less than it's actual worth, even when put as the rarest (last I checked, or close to it)
pet(s) on the site. I believe demand always, always factors in, if one/we can find a middle road.

[Solloby]

If you have seen UR Peach going for UR Holly a lot of times, any trade links you have that can be posted here would absolutely be valuable. My opinion of the UR Peach is entirely based on trade links that I have seen, and I have only seen the collation posted earlier in the thread that very clearly shows it going for UR Lion value.

UR Peach cannot be placed in UR Holly tier unless we can see multiple trades from before the poll went up. If the community can go through the forums finding these trades then let's do it. Let's recompile a list of UR Peach trades (with dates - we cannot use really old trades like when they were first new, or really new trades that have been influenced by the poll and discussion) and reevaluated its trade value.

[wonderlandfox]

I believe we should use the poll as a factor of where to place the UR Peach and the other UR’s we still need to think about. If we took the poll away, those who vote with the poll will feel unheard and feel that it’s not fair that their opinion isn’t used. A lot of people don’t have trades of their own as evidence to use to show how much an UR is worth. No everyone has pets that have a high value. Some people only have the poll as an option. It would not be fair to the community to take the poll away from them.
Everyone should have a fair chance in voting and have an opinion on where the UR’s should be placed. Nobody should be ignored because people believe “they don’t know better”. Not everyone has the same level of knowledge when it comes to trading and things such as demand and what some pets are valued at.