Does anyone else feel like Demand is killing CS?

[Emerald Eclipse]

periodically I’ll check back in on this thread and the discussion has circled back to rereleasing store pets. again.

The staff have said they are not going to rerelease store pets. speculating about potentially fair ways to do it is an interesting conversation but ultimately theoretical as it would never become reality.

No one should feel like they have to steer away from this topic if they are interested in the hypotheticals of the discussion of course, but I personally would be really interested in seeing if anyone has any further thoughts about the original topic, which seems to boil down to: is it better to have a widely-accepted view of the value of certain pets so that when trading, there’s a certain value that players typically pay without having to bend to outrageous “demand,” or is the freedom and flexibility of people deciding their own demand for each pet better in the long run?

Personally, I feel like the issue of store pets never being re-released is central to the issue of demand, given how many high demand pets (Raven, the dragon-cat pps, even the Cheshire kitty a few years back) are store pets.

I remember giving around two nons for our eat+drink me set back in 2017, when the set was still being cited at one non. Obviously, it looks like a bargain now. Which is exactly why I was comfortable giving 2x of the accepted value at that time; I knew that eventually the set would grow in value and exceed it. I believe that part of the high inflation for particular in-demand store pets is the reasoning that if you don't pay this high price for the store pet you want today, in a few years it could be six times the price, so what's wrong with giving a little more?

Obviously, different clever ways of re-releasing might not be a solution when it's already been clearly stated, multiple times, that store pets will never be released. But to enforce the idea that store pets are separate from regular adopts, and should not be considered part of a full collection, the site could have clearer delimitations such as having a separate Store Pets tab in the archive (instead of being part of each year), or a small message under each store pet (like where there is a `This pet was sold in the store' message now) explaining that they a reward for supporters of the site who help CS run.

[Asvoria]

Re-releasing Store Pets will NOT resolve the issue.
If they were made available to the public (regardless of fariness or purpose of this decision), then it would have a sudden drop in store pets value as a cause. Their value might drop more or less rapidly, it would depend on the amount and timing of the re-release, let's just say that they are and will always be popular, therefore will fetch a good amount of money unless they are spread like dirt. But that's not the main point.

With the release of store pets, they are pushed down the imaginary hierachy of pet values.
Store pets cannot and will not influence the value that regular older releases trade for and I assume that their value will go untouched as they watch their old tier friends drop to lower positions.
Ultimately, this would lead to less pets of higher value in circulation, with creating just another big gap between any OMGSR regular and special releases and the now lowly valued store pets, making the economy not better than it was before the re-release of store pets if not worse as there are less chances to collect and watch store pets gain value within time.

The main problem we have is the demand that every one admits to when trading for the market values and not the presence of some exclusive collection pets that were always intended to be expensive and rare due to their nature.
As long as you propose to invest into the offer they make, the longer and higher the demand will spike. I know there is only an exclusive set of people that have the fodder and knowledge to trade within higher rarities, but if you adhere to their rules and deem it impossible to fetch your valuable dreamie, then you are in fact helping them to maintain the rigid grip they have on the economy.

Many, MANY pets were placed wrong on the list rarity wise and are still trading for ridiculous values that are not even fair for what they represent, but people will only realize that when those pets at some point apparently "surprise CS by suddenly turning OMGSR" whilst any rarity researcher (which I account myself to) will have long proposed the change. Apparently demand rules above this knowledge, hence nothing has been done to actually impact the market and placement of some pet values as we are too few to actually be heard.
If you have the time and interest to learn more about the rarity of your VR pet, then I recommend this guide: link

[Anastasia]

periodically I’ll check back in on this thread and the discussion has circled back to rereleasing store pets. again.

The staff have said they are not going to rerelease store pets. speculating about potentially fair ways to do it is an interesting conversation but ultimately theoretical as it would never become reality.

No one should feel like they have to steer away from this topic if they are interested in the hypotheticals of the discussion of course, but I personally would be really interested in seeing if anyone has any further thoughts about the original topic, which seems to boil down to: is it better to have a widely-accepted view of the value of certain pets so that when trading, there’s a certain value that players typically pay without having to bend to outrageous “demand,” or is the freedom and flexibility of people deciding their own demand for each pet better in the long run?

Personally, I feel like the issue of store pets never being re-released is central to the issue of demand, given how many high demand pets (Raven, the dragon-cat pps, even the Cheshire kitty a few years back) are store pets.

I remember giving around two nons for our eat+drink me set back in 2017, when the set was still being cited at one non. Obviously, it looks like a bargain now. Which is exactly why I was comfortable giving 2x of the accepted value at that time; I knew that eventually the set would grow in value and exceed it. I believe that part of the high inflation for particular in-demand store pets is the reasoning that if you don't pay this high price for the store pet you want today, in a few years it could be six times the price, so what's wrong with giving a little more?

Obviously, different clever ways of re-releasing might not be a solution when it's already been clearly stated, multiple times, that store pets will never be released. But to enforce the idea that store pets are separate from regular adopts, and should not be considered part of a full collection, the site could have clearer delimitations such as having a separate Store Pets tab in the archive (instead of being part of each year), or a small message under each store pet (like where there is a `This pet was sold in the store' message now) explaining that they a reward for supporters of the site who help CS run.

I think this is a little unnecessary. Why do we have to make sure that everyone knows that store pets are not part of a full collection? It won't do anything to demand; plenty of people want certain store pets just because they're pretty and rare, not necessarily because they want a full collection.

Coming up with lots of ways to get around the store pet issue imo is pretty futile.

[Dragonsheen]

It's a shame to think that cs goes on the demand problem might worsen. Overall, i just feel really bad for the new players..
Say a new member really likes rats but then is told that rats are useless because they lack demand. The new player would feel discouraged and want to quit!

The thing is, how would the cs staff fix this growing problem?

[liviehearts]

Demands are not controlled by CS. It is a demand because Majority of the people playing wants that pet. There's no way CS can fix this issue. IE. They already have a UR rat, its beautiful, but people still dont want it.

[Brackensnake]

Hey popping in here after quite some while.

Something I've noticed and is a positive and welcome change frankly is I've seen people just going stuff it I want that pet the rarity tag matches. I'm not sure if you've noticed but I feel like I've definitely seen more trades like this circulating around. So the dreams of people who have been asking for looks vs rarity might finally be happening?

I think that the demand data cloud and guide to cs rarities are being run very well and people are trying really hard to make it a little easier, it feels like it might be finally starting to pay off? Does anyone agree with me that ( You know ignoring the store pet nonsense ) things might be starting to get better?

[FriedApplePie]

Hey popping in here after quite some while.

Something I've noticed and is a positive and welcome change frankly is I've seen people just going stuff it I want that pet the rarity tag matches. I'm not sure if you've noticed but I feel like I've definitely seen more trades like this circulating around. I think that the demand data cloud and guide to cs rarities are being run very well and people are trying really hard to make it a little easier, it feels like it might be finally starting to pay off? Does anyone agree with me that ( You know ignoring the store pet nonsense ) things might be starting to get better?

I do agree!
I have noticed it’s been easier to obtain some pets (not store pets ) and as a returning player who struggled to get some of their dreamies a while back, I’ve got a whole lot done within a few months of returning! I’m trying to collect every pet, or the most I can anyway-I’m at a stopping point since I’m out of rares, and I went from nearly a 60 page wishlist to 8 pages (almost 7!) pretty fast, and obtained pets I struggled to get even a few years back or when I first started.

The list in the first place was a big mistake that impacted the way how demand works, and really didn’t do justice to a lot of pets (such as the 2009 Nick PPS) and overvalued others. Now that it’s disbanded, a lot of people are trying for rarity tags-I noticed this the other day with former list pet trades. I truly believe if people were to not think about list and demand, it’ll get better. Don’t get me wrong, demand will always be a thing, but it all starts from someone initially overpaying in the first place, and people just want more and more.

As a side note, I truly believe people basing demand off of auctions is not an example of a true value. I only mention this because I noticed on the fair trade thread the past few days with people replying to others, “I’ve seen it go for more in auctions” and not actually giving values or any legitimate advice/links to help with pet worth. This can be seen with the dragon cat PPS, where one person severely overpaid and boom! Everyone thinks that’s the actual value. In all honesty, it’s natural to pay a lot more than what the pet is worth in auctions when you’re bidding. I am severely guilty of it when I used to bid in auctions I don’t have the funds anymore, but I look back and think “ridiculous” just because I was trying to outbid another player, not exactly thinking about the true value of the pet. Believe me, some of the pets I sent a bid for wasn’t worth the amount I gave, and I see it constantly.

I think the best way to help reduce demand and to make it fair is to base it off of actual worth, from trades that weren’t influenced by someone giving more than the other. I do think CS is slowly heading that way for the majority of pets, the only ones where demand will always be high is, of course, store pets because they will never return. I do think demand is justified for store pets, because they are limited and aren’t rereleased like the others.

As someone who bought the store pets back when they were first released with ACTUAL money (on my old account) I would be absolutely mad if they were rereleased for free on dec 18.
People getting (more or less) exclusive content because they paid money or simply because they joined the site earlier than others has been a thing forever in online games.

Releasing them again for free would never happen. I know the staff have already said for certain that store pets would never come back, but in honesty I wouldn’t be opposed to them being resold (yes I know this was already discussed, but I’m addressing it again).

I didn’t buy any store pets in 2009, but I bought some later and I wouldn’t mind if there was a “randomized” option to adopt older store pets for a higher fee, for limited amount of times. I personally don’t see a problem, but I know it would never happen. Just a dream I suppose but it does concern me when there are hardly any older store pets to trade because of accounts quitting and not coming back, or even when the pets are deleted and no longer exist.

[Dawgs4Life11]

I like the demand side of CS, until i dont
I mean, I'm still quite new, and the amount of times where I've been taken advantage of by older users who have taken a high demand pet off of me and traded me something with very low demand is despicable. I didn't know any better and now, every time I get a trade for a rare+ pet, I'm always afraid to accept in case I am getting the low end of the trade because of demand.
I wish that if two pets were from the same year and same rarity, they're worth the same amount. Easy as pi.
I say these things about simplicity, and they're all true, but there's a part of me that likes the aspect of two pets from the same date and rarity being SLIGHTLY worth different amounts. Maybe because one got rereleased idk. Notice how I wrote 'slightly' in caps? Thats because I don't want demand to take over the whole game like it has achieved to do so.

As a summary, I like demand because it makes the game more exciting. Suddenly you have an idea of exactly what pets are worth slightly more than others, so there's more of a specific pet you can set a goal to get. It makes the game fun, and trades and auctions are more exciting too.
Buuuuuuuuuuuut, it's taking over the entire game and ruining it. It shouldn’t be the focus of the game. The focus of the game should be about which pets look the coolest/cutest, or which type of animal is your favourite. Obviously the rarity will always play a part in what pets you want, but that should be a nonchalant process; not one that you have to check and recheck to make sure you’re getting a good deal. I want demand to be a thing, but not a selfish thing. I don't want people to be so driven by demand that they're willing to advantage new players with it. I like demand, but pets from the same year and rarity should be worth relatively similar.
For e.g if a pet is worth 1 non, a different pet from the same date and rarity shouldn't be worth 6. They should be worth the same, maybe a bit more/less depending on rereleases etc.
Thank you,
xoxo

[TenjouUtena]

I have no real opinion on cash shop pets besides they should never be re-released. Many sites have things that are highly limited and highly coveted but I haven't seen any other site have them have such an impact on the economy as CS. Everyone wants the rarest things on a site, or they want what everyone else wants so they can trade it off for more than they paid. I don't see any solution that would be fair and would even 'fix' the issue.
They should just stay as they are but it's the players of CS that need to fix their inflated demand. It's all just 'I want the best thing on the site.'

My main issue with 'demand' has always been with rats. At one point many years ago I started collecting rats. I don't play this game anymore as the entire issue of demand and how much the community changed over the last few years.
Rats do not have bad demand. They never had bad demand. Ever. As someone who has had nearly every rat until I stopped playing, I would go to trade with someone and look at their wish list. Over half the people have rats on their wish list, maybe even up to 75% of people have high rarity rats on their wish list. People do trade for rats but I've found that people will offer low and say 'it had bad demand' and have watched those people get a rare list rat from a newbie who just wanted to get rid of it just to turn around and demand 2-3X more than what they paid. 'Buy low, sell high' thing and from my own experience, no pet on the site gets that done to them like rats. Maybe butterfly wolves come close?
It's not even 'demand' that is the reason. They only have 'bad demand' because in the early days they weren't as popular as dogs. It spirals though. Now they are 'hard to trade' and people don't want to give their full value...but for what reason anymore? Not wanting a pet because you don't like it is one thing but telling someone things they worked to obtained aren't worth anything it pretty disheartening. It was a lot of work to get every rat and many of them went OMGSR while I wasn't playing. Now I find that '08 VR rats and OMGSR rats are still worth like half of anything else simply because of 'demand'....when nearly everyone that wants to trade with me wants these rats. I have other ex-list pets and VRs, but people WANT rats, they just want them for cheep. When 3 people ask for the same thing in a single day, that's good 'demand' but they all want to get them cheep.

Supply and demand make an economy on a site but CS has a very unique one because it's all based on the pets but we don't breed or make customs here. Hard to find another place to compare or look at when there really aren't sites like CS on the same scale.

[Kabuski]

I kind of agree with demand, although I don't typically agree w undervaluing omgsr (like the rarity change for rats).
Things as of late (that i've seen) are usually pets that are hard to find, the list is out-dated and things are misplaced.

I don't agree w a shima LT being worth 2 ma's, but I can agree with a joker being worth a non.