"The" Rares List Guide - Do not ask about new UR's!

[Lya]

I dont support the idea of putting something higher on the list just so that people will pay what they are worth on the list now. It seems like a hassle. like i said before, if you dont want to take an underoffer for a pet, then dont. The list aint forcing you. I traded all my rareslist rats for more then they ate worth, release and true-date alike and i'm pretty sure that didnt happen cause i'm such an awesome trader (lol). I simple dont take underoffers. Refuse to overpay Bl

The list counts demand and rarity. The general opinion about rats/spiders aint that positive. It's only logic we place them were demand puts em.

Dont get me wrong, im all for moving pets. If they are actually that rare, or when overpays happen all the time. Not the case. so yea. -votes against moving things to spike demand-

Semt from phone, bewareeeemistakes

I think you missed my point but you also stated something that includes part of my point as well. "The list counts demand and rarity." For the most part, you're right, it does. But when it comes to things like rats and spiders, you're completely wrong, again, for the most part. From what I see, the only thing you guys count when putting those things on here is demand. I'm sorry but when it's a very rare that was released in July of '08, it's rarity alone says that it should be placed on the rares list and no lower.

You're right that the rats don't have as much demand as dogs. That doesn't mean they have absolutely no demand. And they certainly don't have -negative- demand. By definition, it's literally impossible for something to have negative demand, meaning you can't have less than 0 people who want, need and/or are looking for something. It's literally not possible. Rarity is pretty much a constant. The only way for something's value to drop below its rarity is for it to have negative demand, which is, again, impossible. Therefore, something -cannot- drop below where its rarity alone should put it.

~ElijahWilkes

Sorry to butt in but,
it's not that the have negative demand, it's that since the demand is low it drops from where it would be with rarity alone (just like if there is high demand it rises), there are people who will trade fairly for rats, just not a lot.

And if we raise the rats just to get people to pay for their rarity, i think it would be more confusing for people that don't understand where their demand would be. It might make trading for them really confusing for people if they see some people paying what their rarity is worth and others paying what you would for both demand and rarity. Keeping them where they are on the rares list lets people get a good idea of what to pay, and if they choose to pay for the rarity alone, they will do that themselves c:

(sorry if this is confusing :3)

This is the problem. Apparently people on this site don't understand how demand works with things and what you said right there isn't the correct way and shouldn't be how it should work on here. And if it was so true, then the zebras wouldn't be where they were at. They're there because of pretty much their rarity alone. Same for the apple and other fruits. If it can be done for them, it should be done for the rats. The zebras, apple and banana actually have -worse- demand than the rats, but they're kept up there because of rarity. ._. Demand shouldn't be able to bring things down below rarity, only up. ._.

~ElijahWilkes

I agree with Elijah.
Sure, if the demand is considered, people will pay less for the rats than for something different, but most people don't think about the fact that the demand is already considered here. If the BA is on the top of the Septembers List, people think it's okay to ask for a pink balloon or more for it, because it's 'high in demand' and 'people have to overpay'. They don't realize that they are only up there because of demand and that it's worth the same as every other advent, technically.
It works the same way for the rats, just the other way round. The speckled rats are low on the main list, but because of the low demand people won't pay a Skeleton or Rose PPS for it, they want to spend less. That those rats are rarer than the Moonswirl doesn't count.

[DaDwarf]

^^' ive certainly seen more rats for trade then moonswirls.

I can't search for the quote now -phone- but if you'd search solloby's posts on this thread, you'll find all that is considered when putting something on the list. Yes, it's rarity and demand, but also supply and a few other things. There is a huge supply of these rats.. and moving them up wont make people pay more. It'll just make them happy that they got that much 'underpay.'

In my opinion, the rats are fine where they are. They shouldnt be moved down..but not up either.

Again, i dont think moving something up so that people pay were it is now, is odd. It makes no sense. If you trade rats, dont take underpays. Simple. (i got balloon dogs fer my july's...)

Rats are still in low demand and i think rarity and supply wise, they are up there perfectly. They are just hard to trafe cause they sit on lines of very wanted dogs. (rose, bmd etc.)

[AleraValerious]

^^' ive certainly seen more rats for trade then moonswirls.

I can't search for the quote now -phone- but if you'd search solloby's posts on this thread, you'll find all that is considered when putting something on the list. Yes, it's rarity and demand, but also supply and a few other things. There is a huge supply of these rats.. and moving them up wont make people pay more. It'll just make them happy that they got that much 'underpay.'

In my opinion, the rats are fine where they are. They shouldnt be moved down..but not up either.

Again, i dont think moving something up so that people pay were it is now, is odd. It makes no sense. If you trade rats, dont take underpays. Simple. (i got balloon dogs fer my july's...)

Rats are still in low demand and i think rarity and supply wise, they are up there perfectly. They are just hard to trafe cause they sit on lines of very wanted dogs. (rose, bmd etc.)

Im same with DaDwarf... its your loss if you accept underpay trades.. and many people who kowns the rats and want them pay fairly for them.. and since the rare list contains the demand and rarity the rats are their rigth place sine if the rats have like 1 or 3 person who wants them so those dogs re about 100 000 - 200 000 members whitlist so there is HUGE number difference between rats and dogs how many people have thme in whilsit and actually wanting them.. thats why most dogs are upper than rats since theyre demand pulls them higher.. even if they are younger like Ur tiger dog..

i suggest to not moving anything..

[DaDwarf]

I'd like to add that i do see yer point, eli. The rats are rare and demand isnt pulling them down (imo). It's thr supply and other factors that keep them down. Demand cant go negative, but with the rats demand sure didnt put them where they are now.

[Solloby]

One thing you have to remember about the July rats is that they are not URs. That is important.
A lot of the OMGSRs on this site are URs, but you need to treat regular release OMGSRs differently from URs.

URs are only released in the yearly Rereleases, and have no litters.
July Rats are released in yearly Rereleases, share their outcomes amongst their litter, and were also released in July 08.

What does that mean? That means that there are July Rats on inactive 08 and 09 accounts that should not be considered part of their supply. So their supply is lower than an UR of the same rarity, thus making them more valuable from a "rarity" perspective. Because rarity alone is worthless, only supply matters when talking about pet trade values.

For example, there could be 1000 Sunjewels in the game and 950 on inactive accounts, or accounts that refuse to trade them. There could be 100 UR Tigers in the game but only 10 on inactive accounts or accounts that refuse to trade them. So in this example Sunjewel might be VR and UR Tiger might just be Rare, but UR Tiger has a better "rarity" because it's supply is almost double - 90 versus 50.

While those numbers are way off, it does explain why UR Tiger is not higher than Sunjewel despite sharing a rarity tag (OMGSR) and being incredibly popular. It has a greater supply because it is an UR and not a regular release. There are less UR Tigers on inactive accounts adding to the rarity calculation that do not add the supply calculation (because we cannot see supply, we can only guess). So an example would be, 1000 Sunjewels, 100 available. 1000 UR Tigers, 300 available.

One thing that is interesting to note about the July rats, is that they are were not rare pets to adopt, they were just not adopted often. The Speckles turned OMGSR a few months before Dogtag, but after the rerelease, the Dogtag surpassed them in rarity. Thus the Speckle rats are slowly drifting away from the Dogtag in rarity - it is possible that each year the natural Rare July outcomes (Sunjewel, Moonswirl & Dogtag; followed by July PPS & BE Galaxy) are getting comparatively rarer to the non-rare outcomes such as the Nons and the Speckle Rats.

Thus the July rats might be behaving more like UR pets than the July dogs because of their low initial adoption rate, but comparative equality in rarity across the litter.

I might also infer that since the last release, the Sunjewel became more rare than the UR Tiger. We can't know for sure because they did not experience a rarity change, but I would not be surprised if in the future rerelease the UR Tiger dips down to VR while the Sunjewel does not. This is based on assumptions however; it is possible that the opposite is true.

I forget what the point of this post was.
But there you go - some food for thought.


Edit:
Dogtag turned OMG 1 month after UR Malk and 3 months after Heart Speckle Rats.
UR Malk turned OMG 2 months after Heart Speckle Rats.
Dogtag & UR Malk turned back OMG together this update.
So Dogtag gained a month against UR Malk, and both pets gained rarity against the Heart Speckle Rats.

Take from that what you will.

[houndoom]

One thing you have to remember about the July rats is that they are not URs. That is important.
A lot of the OMGSRs on this site are URs, but you need to treat regular release OMGSRs differently from URs.

URs are only released in the yearly Rereleases, and have no litters.
July Rats are released in yearly Rereleases, share their outcomes amongst their litter, and were also released in July 08.

What does that mean? That means that there are July Rats on inactive 08 and 09 accounts that should not be considered part of their supply. So their supply is lower than an UR of the same rarity, thus making them more valuable from a "rarity" perspective. Because rarity alone is worthless, only supply matters when talking about pet trade values.

For example, there could be 1000 Sunjewels in the game and 950 on inactive accounts, or accounts that refuse to trade them. There could be 100 UR Tigers in the game but only 10 on inactive accounts or accounts that refuse to trade them. So in this example Sunjewel might be VR and UR Tiger might just be Rare, but UR Tiger has a better "rarity" because it's supply is almost double - 90 versus 50.

While those numbers are way off, it does explain why UR Tiger is not higher than Sunjewel despite sharing a rarity tag (OMGSR) and being incredibly popular. It has a greater supply because it is an UR and not a regular release. There are less UR Tigers on inactive accounts adding to the rarity calculation that do not add the supply calculation (because we cannot see supply, we can only guess). So an example would be, 1000 Sunjewels, 100 available. 1000 UR Tigers, 300 available.

One thing that is interesting to note about the July rats, is that they are were not rare pets to adopt, they were just not adopted often. The Speckles turned OMGSR a few months before Dogtag, but after the rerelease, the Dogtag surpassed them in rarity. Thus the Speckle rats are slowly drifting away from the Dogtag in rarity - it is possible that each year the natural Rare July outcomes (Sunjewel, Moonswirl & Dogtag; followed by July PPS & BE Galaxy) are getting comparatively rarer to the non-rare outcomes such as the Nons and the Speckle Rats.

Thus the July rats might be behaving more like UR pets than the July dogs because of their low initial adoption rate, but comparative equality in rarity across the litter.

I might also infer that since the last release, the Sunjewel became more rare than the UR Tiger. We can't know for sure because they did not experience a rarity change, but I would not be surprised if in the future rerelease the UR Tiger dips down to VR while the Sunjewel does not. This is based on assumptions however; it is possible that the opposite is true.

I forget what the point of this post was.
But there you go - some food for thought.


Edit:
Dogtag turned OMG 1 month after UR Malk and 3 months after Heart Speckle Rats.
UR Malk turned OMG 2 months after Heart Speckle Rats.
Dogtag & UR Malk turned back OMG together this update.
So Dogtag gained a month against UR Malk, and both pets gained rarity against the Heart Speckle Rats.

Take from that what you will.

After i read and re-read everyone's opinion,i agree a little with all of you guys,but Sol here just put 'the cherry on top',allow me to call it like this.It's the supply that makes certain pets rarer than others and that places rats where they are now.
Ignore me ^^
I just wanted to thank you all for making this guide available,it has been extremely useful for us all CS-ians ^^
~Ivee

[DaDwarf]

Great reply Solloby C: I was hoping you'd jump in. I've also found the quote i was referring too earlier, for those who are interested in reading it.

There is a lot to consider. Hopefully this can give you guys a little insight into what needs to be considered:
- Supply (rarity and rarity change dates)
- Demand (popularity among those that can afford them)
- Circulation (the reason UR Mint auctions aren't working - they don't circulate well)
- Comparison to appropriate pets (avoid comparing to the BA or Joker in particular)
- Hoarders (they affect both supply and demand, but you need enough serious ones)

[vvoland]

Sorry;
Just a question between the rarity of the sun-jewel and UR Tiger Dog.
So, when the UR Tiger Dog received it's first rarity, it was OMGSR, right?
The sun-dog only very recently turned OMGSR.

This would imply that there are less UR Tiger Dogs in circulation, correct? Because it's had it's rarity even longer.
The demand, (as is widely known) is much greater for the UR Tiger Dog. I've seen them go for Sun-jewel's plus, let's say, a BE Galaxy.

Is the only reason that the sun-jewel has kept it's place on the top of the list because of it's age?

Thank you,
Mercy

[Hekomi]

In the future, a quick search would give you your answer.

That's partly the reason, but also because we do not want to see the demands for them skyrocket.

['Possum]

In the future, a quick search would give you your answer.

That's partly the reason, but also because we do not want to see the demands for them skyrocket.

This, and the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of Sun Jewels collecting dust in dead accounts.
Still counting towards the rarity tag but completely out of circulation and lost forever.

Whereas the majority, if not all, of the UR Tigers, even if in hoards, are still on active accounts and possibly available for circulation depending on the whims of their current owners. This single fact alone makes them less rare though technically they are rarer than Sun Jewels.