Does anyone else feel like Demand is killing CS?

[taurus ;]

I think updating the List would have been better, honestly. Was that considered?

Lots of people that play CS want the stability of a List...that's why another one was created...

There isn't another list under construction as far as I know.
If you're referring to either aurora or LufikER's rarity lists, they cannot be used (not are they intended for use) as a stand-alone trading guide because they do not consider demand or circulation. They're just supposed to be factual references.

Oh, no, there is another one, based specifically off demand and what certain pets are going for consistently. Made by the user Loelya.

Multiple of these threads being made...I guess psuedo lists, just kind of proves what I'm saying more. People want the stability of a List, which is why it would have made a ton more since for the List to have been updated, not completely discontinued based off votes.

[ariadne]

I think updating the List would have been better, honestly. Was that considered?

Lots of people that play CS want the stability of a List...that's why another one was created...

There isn't another list under construction as far as I know.
If you're referring to either aurora or LufikER's rarity lists, they cannot be used (not are they intended for use) as a stand-alone trading guide because they do not consider demand or circulation. They're just supposed to be factual references.

Oh, no, there is another one, based specifically off demand and what certain pets are going for consistently. Made by the user Loelya.

Multiple of these threads being made...I guess psuedo lists, just kind of proves what I'm saying more. People want the stability of a List, which is why it would have made a ton more since for the List to have been updated, not completely discontinued based off votes.

Exactly. It's fine if people don't want to trade according to the list but even now there are people that refuse to go off list as it becomes increasingly outdated. If the list was updated and kept as a reference for people that wanted to use it that would have been just fine with me, and it would have given me the security I crave when someone asks for a Non for their Raven to know that this is simply this person's value of it, not everyone's, and therefore it's fine if I turn them down and look for it somewhere else.

I've spoken to one of the people that used to own the list and they were also in favour of updating it and now considering the impact it's removal has had on the economy and we've survived a Dec 18th without it I think it may be worth looking into reinstating an updated version of the list.

Especially if someone is already constructing a new one; all the arguments for dismantling the list fall flat once new ones are established and personally I feel much better trusting the old owners of the Rares List because I knew them and I knew that they knew what they were talking about.

[Brackensnake]

I disagree, people need to stop living in the past. Anyone who thinks that the raven dog or dragon cat pps is not worth the outrageous demand needs to start thinking about the future more. Those pets won’t go for what they used. They will will only be worth more, they won’t be released again. Getting your hands on one now for an outrageous price will look like a bargain in a few years. People will be looking back going, “ The demand for the raven is so outrageous you have to pay and arm and a leg just to get one, why can’t people trade them for 2 nons like what they are really worth ( Insert trade from 2019 )” It’s like me saying, why can’t I buy a tv for 40 dollars anymore it’s outrageous demand I don’t want to spend 1500 dollars for it. ( You get the idea I have no idea how much a tv costs ;-; )

I don't think so. The people that both like the designs a lot and have the fodder to afford them will run out at some point. The nature of demand is that it's temporary. Also while store pets grow in value over time I don't think that there will ever be an influx of users like from 2009-now. They grow slowly. If anything I think that demand will die down after a few years and people will be upset they spent what they did.
Also the TV example is facetious, TVs have real actual worth made out of components and programming expertise, CS pets are not inherently worth anything, they go for what people are willing to give, and that changes in the blink of an eye from person to person. If less people are willing to pay outrageously, less outrageous trades will happen.

like i'm not being funny but the raven dog and dragon pps are already losing "demand value". they're just as popular, yes, but they're trading for less. largely because i think people are realising the ravens are nowhere near as valuable as they were made out to be and it's not worth throwing a dogtag at one when they're not likely to even turn "omgsr" for a few years yet. i''ve seen a few trades where one raven has gone for 1.5 nons and apparently there's recent instances where they've traded for nons. likewise the dragon pps is back to trading for a mid advent.
the skelebun and the sorbs are another issue altogether, but the raven and pps aren't really great examples.

Fair enough, You have good points and I redact my first statement. Just keeping/adding two points. The dragon cat pps and raven dog while their value will rise slowly it will probably rise a little faster then those that are getting rereleased. My point on the tv values was to show inflation ( Money changes, cs is an economy. ) and I don’t think we should be going off what we used to trade for the pets years ago, maybe we shouldn’t trade them for as much as we do now, but we definitely shouldn’t be trading them for what we used to then.

[Shaireen]

I agree with all that's been said about the list in the recent posts, I had a break from CS when the voting happened, but I have never thought that the list should be removed and I still think that. Updated, sure, that was definitely needed, but it was still helpful during trading. And now with all the new lists appearing... People support their existence, they are grateful to the authors and honestly... I think that proves that the list is actually needed, I suppose many people didn't expect that removing the list will make trading so subjective and difficult. Existence of list doesn't mean that one has to strictly stick to the values which are stated there, it's just a kind of helpful guide in my opinion and I would definitely support the official list coming back ^^'

[Shian]

I would definitely support the official list coming back ^^'

This is EXACTLY why it will never be coming back. It was never meant to be official. Yet, it was absolutely treated as if it was.
It was run by maybe a few dozen people in no official capacity and it was THE most toxic thread in all of CS. No one else could enter or be chased out with "passion for maintaining the list".

It was also the only list. Others were not even allowed to be made.
Players were punished by mods if they didn't follow the list. If they traded "unfairly".

Go look at the list. There's a ton of pets that aren't at all where they "should" be.
The rarity update showed that list was outdated and inaccurate. Because sometimes it paid attention to rarity and sometimes it paid attention to demand. There was no rhyme or reason other than someone saying on the thread "I think it's this!"

This doesn't bother you? More than that, it's time to stop paying attention to ONLY a few pets. The list was made when there were only a few hundred pets on CS. There's over 10 thousand now. The retiring of the list was also a plea to gain a broader perspective on what pets are sought after. There's more CS pets out there than the Raven, Ur tiger and skelebun and the fact that "a non" is STILL used as some type of currency rather than a pet someone would want because it's their "dreamie" is just sad.

[ariadne]

I would definitely support the official list coming back ^^'

This is EXACTLY why it will never be coming back. It was never meant to be official. Yet, it was absolutely treated as if it was.
It was run by maybe a few dozen people in no official capacity and it was THE most toxic thread in all of CS. No one else could enter or be chased out with "passion for maintaining the list".

It was also the only list. Others were not even allowed to be made.
Players were punished by mods if they didn't follow the list. If they traded "unfairly".

Go look at the list. There's a ton of pets that aren't at all where they "should" be.
The rarity update showed that list was outdated and inaccurate. Because sometimes it paid attention to rarity and sometimes it paid attention to demand. There was no rhyme or reason other than someone saying on the thread "I think it's this!"

This doesn't bother you? More than that, it's time to stop paying attention to ONLY a few pets. The list was made when there were only a few hundred pets on CS. There's over 10 thousand now. The retiring of the list was also a plea to gain a broader perspective on what pets are sought after. There's more CS pets out there than the Raven, Ur tiger and skelebun and the fact that "a non" is STILL used as some type of currency rather than a pet someone would want because it's their "dreamie" is just sad.

That was never my experience with the list but if some people felt like it that is certainly a problem to be addressed. Also, mods treating trades that didn't follow the rares list like a punishable offense or not allowing others to create their own lists sounds more like a failing of the rules, not of the list itself. Those rules should obviously be changed, but I was there when the list was used for trading and while it is true that it was used everywhere (it still is, most of the time!) I never felt oppressed by it.
The rares list stated outright that this were approximations based off rarity -and- demand so a certain inaccuracy wasn't just expected, it was intentional.

I'm sorry that you don't like it but if it wasn't the list and it's nons there would be some other currency used to measure a pets' worth, this need to quantify and seek rarities is very universally human and you can clearly see that in all the new lists of varying criteria being formed right now.

I don't think it's okay that mods used non-adherence to the list as a punishable offense - if that happened, I've never heard of it - and it's not okay that no other list was allowed to exist. But even as a complete noob with three rares in my possession I've only ever experienced the rares list thread as a welcoming space where experienced traders broke down rarities and I learned a lot just from reading them talk to each other.

It doesn't have to be the rares list as it used to be, but all these fractured lists that don't really reach a consensus and all rank pets by different criteria aren't cutting it. People need some kind of measurement of worth for their pets, which is why the non values are still floating around - they're needed to describe value and it's the only reference we have left.

[Aurora Storm]

It doesn't have to be the rares list as it used to be, but all these fractured lists that don't really reach a consensus and all rank pets by different criteria aren't cutting it. People need some kind of measurement of worth for their pets, which is why the non values are still floating around - they're needed to describe value and it's the only reference we have left.

These new "lists" are not intended to be new lists, myself and Lufik's are purely factual data and Loelya has said many times she doesn't want her thread treated as a list, it's a reference for the current demand market and with the polls she has going it's also an aim to help demand and rarity reach a more level playing field. They aren't fractured either, the purpose is to provide users with a factual basis of what their pet is "worth" and what the "market value" is separately, so they can apply their personal demand for said pet themselves. A list that combines both is not realistic, as a pet's total value differs from player to player.

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to talk to their trading partner and say hey, this is what I value these pets at, what's your take on it, and negotiate. Trading is tough right now, sure, but if we talk to each other I'm sure you'll find things aren't as dire as they seem.

Also yes to everything Shian said. Yes.

[ariadne]

It doesn't have to be the rares list as it used to be, but all these fractured lists that don't really reach a consensus and all rank pets by different criteria aren't cutting it. People need some kind of measurement of worth for their pets, which is why the non values are still floating around - they're needed to describe value and it's the only reference we have left.

These new "lists" are not intended to be new lists, myself and Lufik's are purely factual data and Loelya has said many times she doesn't want her thread treated as a list, it's a reference for the current demand market and with the polls she has going it's also an aim to help demand and rarity reach a more level playing field. They aren't fractured either, the purpose is to provide users with a factual basis of what their pet is "worth" and what the "market value" is separately, so they can apply their personal demand for said pet themselves. A list that combines both is not realistic, as a pet's total value differs from player to player.

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to talk to their trading partner and say hey, this is what I value these pets at, what's your take on it, and negotiate. Trading is tough right now, sure, but if we talk to each other I'm sure you'll find things aren't as dire as they seem.

Also yes to everything Shian said. Yes.

I'm sorry but if my choice is between "a multi-thread research project for every pet" and "not trading" it's not trading every time. Like I said, we don't have to bring the list back, but I think that the market needs some kind of objective measuring stick to balance it out. You're vastly overestimating how many people are willing to talk it out. I know that I'm not always in the headspace to negotiate a trade.
Leaving everything up to subjective opinion is all fine and good but that creates an environment where the most popular designs are never attainable because the sky's the limit in how much they're valued.
If there's some kind of objective measuring involved then at least players have something to work toward and they know that they're moving upward. If it's all up to demand then you can quickly find yourself trading sideways or downwards and get confused when the value of both your pets and your goals change every week. It's not sustainable because the people involved will quickly burn out on trading and quit in frustration.

[wet rat]

I left animal jam awhile back because of how messed up and confusing the rarity system was.
Chicken Smoothie is like the same. I wanted the raven because I thought it was adorable only to realize the worth of it. I don't get how a 2010 store pet is so much different than a 2012 or 2013. The value should be more obviously but not that much more. The nons confuse me. The list pets confuse me. I don't like demand, I just trade for pets I think are cute.

[Birdy]

I don't know if it's demand, but I do remember it being much more pleasant/easy to trade years ago. Don't get me wrong, there were always frustrating moments, but it was never this difficult. I think part of it may be that so many of the older players have now left, and a lot of their higher demand/value pets are locked up in their abandoned accounts. I think if so many people hadn't left, and if their pets were still in circulation, maybe "demand" wouldn't have become so high for certain pets.

Now, even though I've been around since 2010 and consider myself relatively "wealthy" in terms of my pet/item collection, I've found myself struggling to trade now more than ever before. It does get pretty discouraging, admittedly.^^