Does anyone else feel like Demand is killing CS?

[Shinryu]

In fact the zebras are the most valuable pets on the site. The nick unicorn and Ur butterfly wolf are also both more valuable than the UR tiger.

Yes I always forget about zebras (forgive me, I don't collect them :oops: ). I wasn't sure about the unickcorn or ur butterfly wolf (they aren't as popular a species as dogs, so people undervalue them a lot).

Technically not all zebras are; one of them (I think? It was the mountain zebra?) has fluctuated down to VR several times throughout the years. There was an error with zebra probability at one point in 2010, which -despite being fixed super quickly- resulted in a notably higher number of zebras being adopted within the first few minutes of the month.
That one zebra outcome kept occasionally dropping to VR even years later.

['Possum]

UR Tiger was Very Rare that first year.
And for a couple of years afterwards.



https://www.chickensmoothie.com/trades/viewtrade.php?id=4826108&userid=50292&signature=RNgFkuCZgRgl8q0xVDblPQ
12/18/2010
9;46 pm.

As for the old store pets...
I did look back through a while ago just reminiscing...
I personally bought maybe 20 Cerberus and Skelebunns. Or a little less.

As far as the Raven Dog I personally bought 20 apiece for three different people in trade doe some valuable list pets.

I'm honestly surprised that things even gone Very Rare!

The only thing driving that pets value up is being stuck on old dead accounts...

Trading is confusing and frustrating. This Advent I finally almost quit. Don't like the Avocado and for the first time in 11 years I didn't care that my collection was incomplete.

Then one of the trades I'd sent for it went through suddenly. And the fact that with offsite trading and CS$ purchased through the years I've spent over $1000 on this site...I just can't walk away.

I will say, however, it is a chore and a great source of stress for me and no longer enjoyable at all...

[taurus ;]

honestly, I think most people enjoyed CS the way it WAS. well...how it was whenever you started playing, that is. trading a lot easier compared to now, and getting rid of the rares list just made things more complicated, IMO.

i joined in 2014, so i'm not an old, old player...but CS was a LOT more enjoyable back then.
and...tbh, im only still playing because i have a personal goal for my heterochromia collection and i keep making hoards that i feel obligated to complete lol.

and now...completing my collection is going to be a lot more complicated.

[ariadne]

I know ... I was taking a break from the site during the time it was decided to get rid of the rares list and I miss it every day. Even my regular rare trades were all made with the end goal of getting more of my list pet hoard babe, the Pink Heart Advent, so I got used to defining pet values relative to it.
I also feel that the reasoning behind removing it - the rarity update revealing that some pets were much rarer than others that were higher on the list - isn't a good enough reason. The list, from the very beginning, said that it was an approximation of what a pet was trading for, not a breakdown of it's rarity. Demand was already a factor in the list, and without it people are going all out with the demand with nothing to hold them back or keep them reasonable.

[taurus ;]

getting rid of the list was pointless, it just made things MORE confusing.
i was also on hiatus when it was gotten rid of and i was shocked when i came back.
majority of the people thay wanted to get rid of it, only wanted to do that so they could low ball for what are now ex lists. that was a huge end goal for a lot of people that voted the list off.

there's already another list out with popular pets' worth based on demand and what they're going for ATM.
different from the rares list, but at the same time, not really.

[ariadne]

getting rid of the list was pointless, it just made things MORE confusing.
i was also on hiatus when it was gotten rid of and i was shocked when i came back.
majority of the people thay wanted to get rid of it, only wanted to do that so they could low ball for what are now ex lists. that was a huge end goal for a lot of people that voted the list off.

there's already another list out with popular pets' worth based on demand and what they're going for ATM.
different from the rares list, but at the same time, not really.

I wasn't around then, like I said, but to me the possible poll answers seemed pretty biased.

Also of course that was the outcome - there's much more people without list pets than people with list pets, of course they were all voting to get rid of it, thinking that meant somebody was going to give them a Balloon dog for their 2010 rare.

I don't think that has done anything to improve CS economy at all.

[Shinryu]

majority of the people thay wanted to get rid of it, only wanted to do that so they could low ball for what are now ex lists. that was a huge end goal for a lot of people that voted the list off.

Also of course that was the outcome - there's much more people without list pets than people with list pets, of course they were all voting to get rid of it, thinking that meant somebody was going to give them a Balloon dog for their 2010 rare.

I don't think it's fair to attribute the votes for retiring the list entirely to people who don't have lists and want one for cheap. If you take the time to read through the discussion on both the main list thread and the debate thread that was created later on, you'll notice that a large chunk of users who argued for retiring the list are, in fact, senior members who have a great deal of experience with high value trading themselves.

As far as I'm personally concerned, I wouldn't have had to vote for retiring the list in order to get a shot at trading for list pets. I've got hundreds of those, I daresay I'm a fairly wealthy player who can afford to trade for whatever I locked my mind on if I cared.
I still voted to retire the list.
You're framing it as trying to lower pets' prices so they can be traded for "unfairly", but it's my honest opinion that the list continually inflated the prices of the pets on it while simultaneously devaluing the values of non-list pets in comparison. Which is a longer way of saying that I think the list had the values wrong all along.
If you've only ever been used to the CS economy under the influence of the list, naturally those values would feel normal and right to you, because that's how you were introduced to trading. Which is understandable, don't get me wrong^^

But it's not really fair or accurate to claim that the "retirement faction" is made up of cheapskates who just don't want to pay a fair price.
We just think fair prices look different, and that the ranking itself wasn't accurate either.
It's also worth noting that there are options between "pay ten nons for a skelebun" and "give me a balloon dog for a single 2010 pet".
Being of the opinion that certain pets are worth less than what the list put them at doesn't mean we think they're worthless^^

Not to mention that if you're looking to include "people who want to underpay for valuable pets" as a demographic for the retirement vote, you'll have to also include "people who want to keep getting rich through inflated prices of the pets they're trading off" as a demographic for the keepers vote.
Of course you'll have both of those, but neither are the only votes for their respective side.

[ariadne]

You have a good point, ZEL.
Personally I just feel like removing the list has destabilized the market. We're never going to get it completely right because CS trading is always going to be subjective but people are always turning toward some higher authority on trading, whether it be the outdated list or any of the newer ones with different criteria that have sprung up since.

I would have preferred if they'd updated the list and made it more transparent and accurate instead of leaving people floundering. Now that there is no more list pet values really are all up to demand and that has made trading very had to navigate. Pets that nobody wants like the Speckled rats that used to trade for at least something since their rarity made them mainlist pets are now completely impossible to trade for anything close to what their rarity should mean they're worth.

I just feel like adding a certain amount of objectivity to trading was helpful - that's why we have pet rarities and that's why the fair trade thread still exists - because people want to feel like they've made objectively correct choices. The list was another reference point for fairness and frankly without it or something similar a lot of people have lost the motivation for trading.

I didn't mean to attack people for voting out the list and I apologize if it came off wrong. I do believe that a lot of people wanted to keep the list specifically to ensure that their pets would continue to have objective value, I don't think that makes them mustache-twirling villains; they've worked hard at trading up the list to get to a place where they can have the pets they like and the idea that that might be taken from them and their trade fodder will become just another generic very rare is unsettling.

But I also still believe that a majority of the people voting did not properly grasp the consequences, the ripple effect, the removal of the list would have on the site.

[taurus ;]

I think updating the List would have been better, honestly. Was that considered?

Lots of people that play CS want the stability of a List...that's why another one was created...

[amarok.]

I think updating the List would have been better, honestly. Was that considered?

Lots of people that play CS want the stability of a List...that's why another one was created...

There isn't another list under construction as far as I know.
If you're referring to either aurora or LufikER's rarity lists, they cannot be used (not are they intended for use) as a stand-alone trading guide because they do not consider demand or circulation. They're just supposed to be factual references.