CS Rares+ Guide

[dawnchu]

no one is saying that it has to go away completely or that you won't be able to contribute to it - we just want the name changed and for it to become more of a personal project than an official one for the site. we do not want it to seem official in any way, shape, or form to mislead players into thinking that it is the law to trade by because we are trying to avoid a repeat of the rares list, but smaller, personal or group project lists are a-okay as long as they stay just that - a tiny, personal or group project.

oh my god, this. yes.

[Kittytalia]

Just because parts of the community don't want it, doesn't mean the part of the community who do want it can't contribute to the thread. It's still a community thread.

It is not so much a community thread if the community is not being interacted with individually / being answered personally instead of posting some””” announcement”””here and there. Answering questions INDIVIDUALLY, interacting with us INDIVIDUALLY, is something that’ll make us feel like we are heard. We don’t want to feel like it’s only the supporters being interacted with, because then it’s not necessarily a community guide.

770 people on the last list voted to get rid of it. 697 people on the last list voted to rework it.
total of almost 1500 people that voted it off.

I honestly feel like the poll is needed so you don’t waste your time and make a list that won’t benefit the “community” (community being everyone, as it should be.)

@never: The replies I am giving are generalized out of necessity. If I replied to everyone individually, I would be repeating my messages many times over (potentially), or losing out on time to work on this project as well as other projects that matter offline, such as my college work. On that note, I am not doing a poll because this project is not going to stop, regardless of what that poll says. I am also not changing this guide to be a personal guide, because that would detract from my goal of this list being easily identifiable and would seem less credible.

Also, I am trying to reply equally to both sides! Sometimes, a question or concern is simply answered by someone else before I can get to it.

I hope this gives you a satisfying explanation and some peace of mind. If not, please explain further and I will try to help you to understand my stance on this c:

[avaloafe]

Just because parts of the community don't want it, doesn't mean the part of the community who do want it can't contribute to the thread. It's still a community thread.

It is not so much a community thread if the community is not being interacted with individually / being answered personally instead of posting some””” announcement”””here and there. Answering questions INDIVIDUALLY, interacting with us INDIVIDUALLY, is something that’ll make us feel like we are heard. We don’t want to feel like it’s only the supporters being interacted with, because then it’s not necessarily a community guide.

770 people on the last list voted to get rid of it. 697 people on the last list voted to rework it.
total of almost 1500 people that voted it off.

I honestly feel like the poll is needed so you don’t waste your time and make a list that won’t benefit the “community” (community being everyone, as it should be.)

@never: The replies I am giving are generalized out of necessity. If I replied to everyone individually, I would be repeating my messages many times over (potentially), or losing out on time to work on this project as well as other projects that matter offline, such as my college work. On that note, I am not doing a poll because this project is not going to stop, regardless of what that poll says. I am also not changing this guide to be a personal guide, because that would detract from my goal of this list being easily identifiable and would seem less credible.

Also, I am trying to reply equally to both sides! Sometimes, a question or concern is simply answered by someone else before I can get to it.

I hope this gives you a satisfying explanation and some peace of mind. If not, please explain further and I will try to help you to understand my stance on this c:

so you aren't listening to the community by doing a poll, it IS a personal guide. why is that so hard for you to accept? it isn't really going to change anything except you name is there. it isn't a community guide if you aren't listening to the majority of the community man!

[Kittytalia]

@ajohanna: I'm sorry. I don't believe there is anything I could say that would satisfy you, but at the very least, this won't turn out to be a slow going failure like the last list was. I am working hard to prevent that.

Sorry again :c

[Xiao_Jian]

Just because parts of the community don't want it, doesn't mean the part of the community who do want it can't contribute to the thread. It's still a community thread.

It is not so much a community thread if the community is not being interacted with individually / being answered personally instead of posting some””” announcement”””here and there. Answering questions INDIVIDUALLY, interacting with us INDIVIDUALLY, is something that’ll make us feel like we are heard. We don’t want to feel like it’s only the supporters being interacted with, because then it’s not necessarily a community guide.

770 people on the last list voted to get rid of it. 697 people on the last list voted to rework it.
total of almost 1500 people that voted it off.

I honestly feel like the poll is needed so you don’t waste your time and make a list that won’t benefit the “community” (community being everyone, as it should be.)

@never: The replies I am giving are generalized out of necessity. If I replied to everyone individually, I would be repeating my messages many times over (potentially), or losing out on time to work on this project as well as other projects that matter offline, such as my college work. On that note, I am not doing a poll because this project is not going to stop, regardless of what that poll says. I am also not changing this guide to be a personal guide, because that would detract from my goal of this list being easily identifiable and would seem less credible.

Also, I am trying to reply equally to both sides! Sometimes, a question or concern is simply answered by someone else before I can get to it.

I hope this gives you a satisfying explanation and some peace of mind. If not, please explain further and I will try to help you to understand my stance on this c:

(emphasis mine)
So you want a credible guide without doing community polls and only listening to people who agree with you?

I literally don't know how to respond to that.

Once again, I think this would be a great personal project. As of right now, it's not a community project.

[Kittytalia]

@Xiao_Jian: The only community poll I have refused is the one requesting to take down the thread. Anything else is up for debate.

[Jiloon]

I'm all for this List! I never supported "shutting down" the old one, and I think some sort of guide needs to be reorganized and offered up to the community so that whoever *wants* to use it can. If this one turns out to make sense, I'll definitely use it, as I'm sure a bunch of my trading partners will too

[Horror]

if you’re just going to keep ignoring everyone and only focus on people who say why you want to hear then there’s no point in making this a community guide. this is just your guide. and the couple people who voted to keep the list, voted to make this like the last list, and the people that are posting in your favor’s guide. you can call it a community guide all you want, but this list only will serve the people that agree with it. this level of ignoring people that disagree with the list and listening only to the owner of it/supporters is the same level the last one when it started out and for a long time until the community realized “hey, this is bad”

everyone’s welcome to make their own guide, but if you’re making the exact same thing as the last list that people got sick of and worked hard to get rid of, and making it in a way where no community input is even really allowed since you don’t listen to the large majority when they post and the poll options blatantly reflect that too, it’s no surprise there’s controversy. if anyone really wants a guide like this they can go to the old list. enough people still use that to make trading using it worthwhile but it being discontinued frees the people that hated it. any new player seeing a fresh, unlocked thread like this is more likely to think of it as a relatively official guide. any guide with demand in it will take excessive updating or will fall to becoming outdated and harmful just like the last one anyway, and demand based placements hurt the economy more than anything thanks to the help of reapplied “demand”, that will inevitably happen no matter how well you take care of and update this list too. there’s no saving demand based/demand-including lists. if someone wants to know the demand of their pet, they can check auctions or other peoples trades to see what other people offer/ get offered. sounds like work but you can’t expect to trade well without putting any effort in. id very very much prefer a rarity based list that includes a tidbit on how to find demand on your pet like that rather than trying to visualize it itself.

if you’re not willing to do much as make a poll to see if people even want this since you might/will not like the answer that alone says enough. if you flat out say you’re not going to stop with this no matter what that poll would say, then this isnt a community guide. giving general replies just to make it LOOK like you’re listening because you aren’t willing to actually acknowledge the problems at hand or put the effort into addressing them and want to continue ignoring them isn’t going to be productive. the large majority of people don’t want it to begin with, and it doesn’t look too good when the last owner of a big list ended up being as far more willing to listen to the community than with this. id be all for supporting a list if it didn’t have so many blatant issues before it’s even begun that won’t be fixed and no effort will be put in to fixing them.

don’t use calling it “ a community guide” as a cover to make it look good to people that support you when everyone else can see right through it

[f1owercrown]

Here are my two cents on the issue.

First, I'm totally against the idea of a new demand list. There's a reason why we took down the first one. Make a personal list for all it's worth to you, but change the title at least. Many do not want a repeat of something we took down a while back.

Second, considering you want to push through with this despite much criticism against it, I guess all we can do is suggest how to make it better. Have you ever thought about creating Google Forms to tally all transactions of a certain list pet? I figured the only way to convince people that this list is reliable is to show actual, hard numbers. I'm part of another community that uses a sort of 'list', except it's in Google Sheets format that tallys transactions of different items. It's arranged in rows: (1) seller/buyer, (2) date, (3) source (i.e. link to auction or private trade), (4) price/trade value, (5) notes (i.e. bulk trades, fast trade, etc.). From there, we users can gauge how much to buy or sell an item, if someone is underselling, etc. Of course, this entails that the makers of this list/guide are willing to probe many users regularly about their trades (because for sure, not everyone will report), but if you guys want this to be a basis for many then you have to be as reliable (and unbiased) as possible.

So yeah. For me it's basically, either discontinue this while it's early (as many said, history shouldn't repeat itself), or show us the hardcore numbers underlying your reasoning for positioning pets in your future list. I'm still leaning on not doing this at all, considering CS is a large and complicated community whose rich percentage can easily take advantage of demand-based lists.

(P.S.: I agree with what Horror had to say. Maybe read their comment.)

[FallenOrpheus]

Reading back through, I'm definitely gonna have to agree with one specific point. You've made it clear you don't want to listen to the community unless it's people who support this project.
So take 'CS' out of it. You said it doesn't sound good, but this is very clearly 'your' list, and no one else's. So put your name in place of CS. 'Kittytalia's Rares+ Guide' sounds just as good, and doesn't sound like something official.

Because the difference between this, and a CS guide is the fact that a CS guide is official, and listens to ALL of the community.
This is neither of those things, and by calling it the CS Rares+ Guide makes it sound like you're speaking for the community, and you are not.

If you're concerned, put it to a vote. Let the COMMUNITY vote on what they want this to be called. Because it's not fair to make an official sounding list when you're not treating it like that.

If I sound too harsh, tell me. But this is just a small piece of constructive criticism that I want you to hear and acknowledge. Because when all is said and done, you're less likely to get the same calls to discontinue this project if you make it clear it's your project and not meant to be representative of the community and their wants.