CS Rares+ Guide

[Liliette]

what is the difference between this new list and the old list? What makes better that it will solve the issues of the last one so it wont get locked again? It just feels like a repeat except now we are adding pets that are also rare.

There Is no way to satisfy everybody but you have to admit that adding demand to a list will make many people uneasy. Who's to say that adding a pet such as the shima longtail (which is rare, and while does have outrageous demand it's not hard to obtain since so many users have it and are willing to trade it), increase the demand even more since it is going to be considered a 'list' pet.

Although some pets have steady demand, it is by no means a linear value...demand can change so much within a year. And then, do you keep updating it constantly when theres a shift in demand?

I dont know about this one...I feel like it's just going to get locked again.

[avaloafe]

@drmoneybags - it just doesn't seem to be clicking in the op's mind that this is going to be a full-time commitment. they have to be on this all the time really. and not to mention the old one did NOT work out. if the majority of the community so far on this post doesn't want it, then if it's a community thing, their ideas and thoughts about it should be listened to. which means the list really shouldn't continue unless it's ONLY saying what things are worth NOT based on demand. if they want a demand list, then name it a DEMAND list. not a RARES LIST GUIDE. there's a difference.

the op hasn't really answered questions that a lot of the people on here have asked. they've skipped over them or have given nonchalant answers. they don't seem to want to listen to what the majority of people are saying. it seems like it's a list only for themselves. it's just what the community is seeing and witnessing.

also, with almost 20 pages of people explaining their worries and the bickering back and forth i think that's a sign for something. we know how badly the last list affected the cs trading hub. and we are worried that with a new "list" in development the same thing is going to happen again.

[juyeo]

op i have a question. why act like a change of the name was in order and act like you were going to drastically change it (said smth like seasonal's "market prices" was a good idea) if you were literally just going to take out the word "list"? It hits zero of the points people were making about the title, which I will list below. I feel like you only "changed" the name to get people of your back. I get blocking out the haters and all that but if you were going to change it this little you might as well said no and moved on.

Arguments made about the previous name (CS Rares List Guide)
-by having CS in the name, it makes it look like an official guide, and that worries people because they don't want another "unofficial" official list that dictates their trades like law. And you can argue whatever you want, but i have never seen someone willing to trade any of the pets on the old list like the normal vr's they are. people are always going to want to make a profit and get the best deal for their pets, and if this list places their dragon cat pps at any list value, they're going to want that and more. if that's just how people are.

-it being called a "Rares guide" when- in reality- it's a demand guide. Calling it a rares guide can trick ppl into thinking that their placement is their actual value, not their current market price. sure, you can add disclaimers, but some people will just read the title and go "if this is what my pet it worth, i want more."

hopefully i got everything? i've been lurking on this thread for a while and have read everything so i just wanted to ask. Sorry if this comes off as a little rude; this thread puts me on edge a lil and i don't mean to sound mean lol

so ig my question summed up is "why change the title at all if you were just going to remove the word 'list'?" imo it doesn't do much in terms of compromise, if that was the goal here

[Kittytalia]

@juyeo: I understand the concern, and I went over a multitude of possible names. I had to consider what I wanted this guide to be, and it is certainly not a pure demand list, as rarity plays into this as well.

As for including market in the name, I tried multiple variations, but they all sounded silly to me. I want people to see this and have it be recognizable, hence the close similarity it had to the old name initially, and I was hoping that this change, although slight, would more accurately capture what I'm going for.

It is a list of rare+ pets, with a focus on the market/how things are trading. I made sure to have an explanation placed on the first page for this c:

[Horror]

sorry if i missed something or got the wrong idea about something, still reading through the past 20 pages ^-^"

@Kittytalia

"Still a community guide.
I'm being sure to consider everything that everyone is saying, even if it isn't aimed pleasantly at me. I can't please everyone, but I can at least get a working guide in order. c;"

770 people on the last list voted to get rid of it. 697 people on the last list voted to rework it.
grand total of almost 1500 people that dont want a list thats going to end up the same as the last one. plus looking at the poll Mythz posted recently, already 60+ people have voted against this list too.
(even if not all of the people that voted on those two options are still active, its still a significant number and cant just be ignored.)

"and it is certainly not a pure demand list, as rarity plays into this as well.".... "It is a list of rare+ pets, with a focus on the market/how things are trading. I made sure to have an explanation placed on the first page for this c:".

thats exactly what the last list was, it just (usually) excluded rares. other than that, this is gonna be the same thing.


i get the whole "you dont have to use it" argument but:
-one list becoming used a decent amount is already on the same track on becoming the law the last one became

-people that do choose not to use it may eventually get forced to if they ever want to get anywhere in trading if this gets used enough.

-newbies may stumble upon this, see a nicely organized list, talking about how this is ~the trading current values of pets, and use this as well since, ill admit, trading is hard. so of course theyll want condensed list that makes this a bit easier. or they'll just be directed to this by older players, their friends, etc that just happen to use this.

sure itll start out as a nice guide, people trade by it, but sooner or later people are going to inflate the demand values you put on here. always gonna happen. theres your "history repeats itself argument", so we can all learn from that problem and not include demand in a list or guide

plus, the last list had plenty of disclaimers saying how "its not official" - "its a user/community made guide" - "it is by no means the absolute authority on pet value" --- things essentially implying it isnt law and no one really HAS TO use it, and we all know how that worked out.





if its a community guide, listen to the community. all of it. whole thing, not only the small portion thats in agreement with it.

very least, make a poll on this thread itself asking if the community even wants it in the first place. please. its not a community guide if youre going through with it just because you/a few other people want to - its just a personal guide, and its not really going to help anyone else other than people that wish to take advantage of its flaws.


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@DrMoneyBags i think people are saying more than just "dont make it" or listing what they "hate about it" theyre giving lots of reasons to why. the last list was a living example of why lists are this are going to hurt the community more than help, even if when it has the best of intentions. legitimate reasons and examples of why things like this never work out arent hate.

"Op has made it clear they’re continuing regardless of whether you think they should- so quit saying it’s going to turn out this way or that way and make suggestions that would make it better than the other list."

yeah, continuing regardless of what the majority of the community thinks and the clear signs its not going to turn out well isnt a good sign that this list is ever going to be a good idea. that sentence pretty much sums up why it isnt. if you want a suggestion that would make it better than the other list, then dont make this the exact same thing as the last one. the only good suggestion anyone can make is dont include demand in a list. which is being blatantly ignored or met with vague responses that dont really treat the real issues being brought up.

look, im all for people making guides and i admire those that put the time into these things and want to help others. trading isnt easy, that much is true 100%. but theres a right and wrong way of going about it

[phxyvi]

this is the second time we have been called 'hateful' and 'disrespectful' and to be honest i just find that a clear sign of immaturity. maybe what we're saying is ''disrespectful'' only because you do not agree and dont understand where we are coming from / want to understand our point of view.

edit: i am referring to the hate + ideas whatever post. we do not mean to come from a place of hatred at all, but honestly i and others are tired of trying to get things through OP's mind / being heard and not even getting the right recognition a '''''' for the 'community guide''''''' owner would give.

You aren’t quite hearing me, the disrespect is NOT from disagreeing or criticizing. It’s from tone, which is difficult to read in text but some people feel the need to be overly sarcastic and passive-aggressive and it’s very clear that’s their intention.

I’ve said this many, many times?
Look at the difference in how things are being approached
From where I’m standing, at least, opposers come on the attack with the notion of evil demand lists and such. Note how I haven’t responded to people stating their opinions/concerns without feeling the need to be backhanded or try to tell op that they, in some way, are “not allowed.”
I believe that how quick everyone is to go up in arms when I mention they’ve not been especially kind shows just what I’m talking about, if you never came from a place of aggressiveness you’d have no worries. And you wouldn’t need to call me immature without addressing anything else I said aside from the initial comment about not treating op well.

This is the second time the opposing side has been called immature, as well.

You ARE being heard, and she has been working to make it so that it WONT Be like the old list but there’s been so little talk of actually HOW you think it could be prevented (aside from her not making it at all..) that there’s very little she could do to settle your unease.


___

To @Horror

As mentioned above, I’m not saying you’re disrespectful for disagreeing- but just as you said, there’s a right and wrong way to go about things. And although much of it has been cleaned up, many users have been far less than kind. :,0
For example, calling the notion idiotic (as it has been called)
Is not a good way to go about things
Giving backhanded luck, is not s good way to go about things
Responding with sarcastic “lol” and snippy answers to people giving suggestions, is not s good way to go about things

I personally don’t think you were disrespectful at all toward me or anyone else. You tried to understand and see it from my view,

And I appreciate that but-

The list has one (1) pet placed thus far and it’s not even definitely placed there.
Nobody has given ways to avoid making the list like the other, they’ve simply had it set in stone that it isn’t Going to work out and that nothing will prevent it from being an awful mess.

There was the suggestion of adding successful trades demonstrating the value, so you couldn’t profit push And claim you’re pet is misplaced.
As you’ve read, that was shot down on the grounds that people would falsify trades with their friends.
Which imo is very far fetched and elaborate to fake over an extended time period.


OP continuing on with the list is giving it a chance to be something good and useful. I agree that it needs a further name change and explanation so that we don’t mislead into the whole “follow this list or die” pathway.

But it hasn’t even been given a chance at all?

And as for don’t include demand in a list.
Demand the only reason any valuable pet has any value at all ever. Rarity and demand shouldn’t Be mixed because they are different And like to mesh, but a demand list can Be incredibly beneficial if done right.

[Xiao_Jian]

sorry if i missed something or got the wrong idea about something, still reading through the past 20 pages ^-^"

@Kittytalia

"Still a community guide.
I'm being sure to consider everything that everyone is saying, even if it isn't aimed pleasantly at me. I can't please everyone, but I can at least get a working guide in order. c;"

770 people on the last list voted to get rid of it. 697 people on the last list voted to rework it.
grand total of almost 1500 people that dont want a list thats going to end up the same as the last one. plus looking at the poll Mythz posted recently, already 60+ people have voted against this list too.
(even if not all of the people that voted on those two options are still active, its still a significant number and cant just be ignored.)

"and it is certainly not a pure demand list, as rarity plays into this as well.".... "It is a list of rare+ pets, with a focus on the market/how things are trading. I made sure to have an explanation placed on the first page for this c:".

thats exactly what the last list was, it just (usually) excluded rares. other than that, this is gonna be the same thing.


i get the whole "you dont have to use it" argument but:
-one list becoming used a decent amount is already on the same track on becoming the law the last one became

-people that do choose not to use it may eventually get forced to if they ever want to get anywhere in trading if this gets used enough.

-newbies may stumble upon this, see a nicely organized list, talking about how this is ~the trading current values of pets, and use this as well since, ill admit, trading is hard. so of course theyll want condensed list that makes this a bit easier. or they'll just be directed to this by older players, their friends, etc that just happen to use this.

sure itll start out as a nice guide, people trade by it, but sooner or later people are going to inflate the demand values you put on here. always gonna happen. theres your "history repeats itself argument", so we can all learn from that problem and not include demand in a list or guide

plus, the last list had plenty of disclaimers saying how "its not official" - "its a user/community made guide" - "it is by no means the absolute authority on pet value" --- things essentially implying it isnt law and no one really HAS TO use it, and we all know how that worked out.





if its a community guide, listen to the community. all of it. whole thing, not only the small portion thats in agreement with it.

very least, make a poll on this thread itself asking if the community even wants it in the first place. please. its not a community guide if youre going through with it just because you/a few other people want to - its just a personal guide, and its not really going to help anyone else other than people that wish to take advantage of its flaws.


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@DrMoneyBags i think people are saying more than just "dont make it" or listing what they "hate about it" theyre giving lots of reasons to why. the last list was a living example of why lists are this are going to hurt the community more than help, even if when it has the best of intentions. legitimate reasons and examples of why things like this never work out arent hate.

"Op has made it clear they’re continuing regardless of whether you think they should- so quit saying it’s going to turn out this way or that way and make suggestions that would make it better than the other list."

yeah, continuing regardless of what the majority of the community thinks and the clear signs its not going to turn out well isnt a good sign that this list is ever going to be a good idea. that sentence pretty much sums up why it isnt. if you want a suggestion that would make it better than the other list, then dont make this the exact same thing as the last one. the only good suggestion anyone can make is dont include demand in a list. which is being blatantly ignored or met with vague responses that dont really treat the real issues being brought up.

look, im all for people making guides and i admire those that put the time into these things and want to help others. trading isnt easy, that much is true 100%. but theres a right and wrong way of going about it

agreed.

Me too!

[Mina Ashido]

I support your work I hope you can make a list you find helpful for trading, it can def. be a challenge. I suggest looking through trades and stuff, "the good trade thread" and "is this a fair trade thread" provides much more help with valuing than any old geezer can. I also suggest looking at failed ones as well, considering overpay isn't the same as demand and can be twisted by perception.

Good luck, if you need any help with coding just ask I may not be the best but I'm kinda cool at it.

[phxyvi]

And with that, I think I’m just about done ;A;

Just as you feel you haven’t been heard, I don’t think I can get my point across at all. The tiniest words are picked at and taken out of my true meaning so very hastily n I don’t think there’s much I can do to remedy that.

Also- it doesn’t all that much apply to me in the end, I’ve got a red cerb and some scattered rares left to sell and I’m hitting the road. CS was a short lived liking.
No sense to keep stressing about defending myself with 1 foot out the door

Thanks to all for your time and your debate ^^ a genuine good luck to any others.

[shiny furret]

to anyone else that still feels the need to discuss their anger beyond this point,
can you all please calm down, okay?

let op start off with the first list and then you guys can discuss from there
take a breather and although most of you hate the concept, it doesnt hurt giving op a small chance maybe?
i dont like the concept but i'm still giving op some breathing room, no need to suffocate this thread as it is already, i'm sure you all have your points across already and just repeating everything at this point.
all i'm saying is wait, thanks.
and to you guys still willing to discuss the chaos that was the old rares thread,
whatever happened happened, and i still understand that.
still give this list a chance, it barely even started.