CS Rares+ Guide

[ufoparty]

‘You don’t have to follow the list’ is a poor argument because while those of us who are long-time users who are aware of what’s set in stone and what’s not, new users may not be aware that they don’t need to follow this list. Because for them, they’ll see ‘oh everyone else is using this rarity guide, it must be accurate’ and follow a poor demand-based list rather than actual rarity values.

History repeats itself, if the old list didn’t work out why even bother with a new one?

[Xiao_Jian]

History repeats itself, if the old list didn’t work out why even bother with a new one?

Exactly!

[In The Darke]

But just because a percentage of users have a negative opinion on the list, doesn't mean it should be taken away from users who would like something to reference for their pets.

Every trade you make is at your own discretion, everyones been doing as such for a couple months now technically, albeit a lot of old list values are still used and rarity is commonly ignored, but just because some people may use it consistently, and some loosely and some not at all, doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

Plus literally all history does is repeat itself. Over and over and over. The differences in those repetitions is we tend to learn from previous mistakes to do better with our future attempts.

Being negative and pessimistic isn't going to help anyone at all, I feel everyone would be better trying to make positive observations on what things need to change so the things that were the downfall to the previous list don't repeat itself, rather than sticking feet in concrete and refusing change outright

[Xiao_Jian]

Right.

There's absolutely nothing in this thread (and yes, I've read it all) that makes it different from the old list.

1. It's still focused on demand. Even more so since apparently the Shima Longtail and other pets are going to be on it. Which means that pet value still won't be decided by actual rarity

2. It's still going to be controlled by a small number of "power users." Especially because it's demand base, it's going to be up to a tiny percentage of CS users to decide what a pet is worth.

3. It's still ignoring that the majority of CS voted to get rid of the old list. I've done a lot of VR trades recently, and have been lurking on the FTT. Trades are getting fairer/easier, people are focused on what their pets are actually worth, not what the few people who control the list say they're worth.

If the list was purely objective, with only actual data of pet numbers, rarity change times, and trades showing what a pet is actually worth, I'd have 0 problem with it. If you can actually show the Shina is consistently worth a Non, fine.

But continuing to insist we need a list based on the opinions/feelings of a few users, controlled by something completely subjective like demand without the data to back it up, is just unfair and misleading to the larger CS community.

[LLHBBB]

Right.

There's absolutely nothing in this thread (and yes, I've read it all) that makes it different from the old list.

1. It's still focused on demand. Even more so since apparently the Shima Longtail and other pets are going to be on it. Which means that pet value still won't be decided by actual rarity

2. It's still going to be controlled by a small number of "power users." Especially because it's demand base, it's going to be up to a tiny percentage of CS users to decide what a pet is worth.

3. It's still ignoring that the majority of CS voted to get rid of the old list. I've done a lot of VR trades recently, and have been lurking on the FTT. Trades are getting fairer/easier, people are focused on what their pets are actually worth, not what the few people who control the list say they're worth.

If the list was purely objective, with only actual data of pet numbers, rarity change times, and trades showing what a pet is actually worth, I'd have 0 problem with it. If you can actually show the Shina is consistently worth a Non, fine.

But continuing to insist we need a list based on the opinions/feelings of a few users, controlled by something completely subjective like demand without the data to back it up, is just unfair and misleading to the larger CS community.

I also agree with this. Demand & greed doesn't need to be added to a list it will happen no matter what. The raven was on the advent list but never went for a advent pet and the shima long tail and the pps dragon has always gone for more then it's worth without being on a list ever so putting them on one will most likely make the the demand even higher. I am aware everyone is entitled to their opinions and this is mine. Everyone can also trade how ever they feel and trade their pets for what ever they feel is fair. I just feel a demand list is going to hurt the trading economy even more then the previous list did.

Store pets are also a different story. Yes they are never release again but the demand is getting out of hand. The clockwork bunny, Marionette dog & patchwork are all going for over a non where before the list was deleted they went for a sorbet. It's like people are trading based on what they will be worth in 5 years as opposed to what they are worth now.

[FallenOrpheus]

I really disagree with the shima LT and pets like the dragon cat being added to this tbh. It'll just give room to scammers and ninjas, if this list becomes popular enough. "Oh, my 09 rare is worth your higher value pet, look at this guide here that says it " and you'll end up with newer players who lucked upon a valuable pet being essentially scammed out of it.

I do think store pets should be given their own list too, because they're so unique to regular pets. They'll never be rereleased, and will always go up and up in value. It's difficult to equate them to normal pets due to that.

Edit: If you're planning to make it a demand based list, it also shouldn't be referred to as a rares list, because it's anything but a rares list, it's a demand list.

[Ringo.]

This should be renamed as it isn’t actually a Rares List, it’s a demand list.
I also think this whole idea isn’t going to help anyone.
So many new players and old players are going to get scammed out of their pets due to “demand”
I understand that “you dont have to follow it” but do you know how many players are going to be using this to scam others just because of greediness?

The rares list was retired for a reason, this one isn’t going to be any different.
The Shima LT and the Dragon Cat shouldnt be on the list.
Especially since the Shima LT is a staff pet and shouldn’t be worth more than the rest of the staff litter from that year. Store pets shouldn’t be on it nor have it’s own section as they are more unique than the other pets and will never be rereleased and just keep going up in value.

There are so many things that are going to be wrong with this demands list.
And also, if this is a community based demand list then how about actually listening to the community? Otherwise you’re just listening to all the greedy players who like to scam others out of their high worth pets.

Im not trying to be rude or mean to anyone, I’m simply stating my input and opinion on this matter

[Seasonal]

I'd like to preface this by saying that I'm not an avid list pet trader. I'm not really sure where the scam narrative came from, but I don't have any up for trade and have a Wishlist of nearly 10 pages that isn't going to be completed any time soon. I would not be benefiting from moving any of these pets; I'd be losing out. This is also purely my opinion as a long-time player of the game, not as CS staff. And as always, you're 100% welcome to debate or disagree.

I think it's important to recognize that the old list was founded on literally nothing other than observing the trading community. I was there for it! I helped place some of the original pets, like the Zebras and July PPS. These pets used to be at the very top of the list. We didn't have any data to base these presumptions off of, either; it was 2010. No one really thought that CS would get as serious as it has. I never expected to be playing 9 years later, and I don't think anyone else really did either. We just wanted to create a list of the rarest pets on CS. Over time, these pets shifted from being recognized as high-value pets to being recognized as list pets. I admit that even I fall into that trap still, but at the end of the day we have to remember that the list isn't real. It's just a structure of organization.

I'd like to refute the Shima argument with the Advent 2008 dog litter that comprised of the old pre-July dogs being released as adoptable pets. The BA, BMD, and Vixen are all a part of this litter, yet no one would be willing to swap any of these dogs for their littermates. The BA is on the September list because of demand. We know that it's worth the same as any other dog from that litter - there's no reason for it to be any rarer - yet no one is going to do that swap.

I don't think that the Shima is worth a list pet. But I also don't feel that a BA is worth a September '08 pet. Placements need to be consistent, and by favoring one pet over the other, consistency is broken.

My concern has always been for casual players. Not everyone has hours to spend every day trading and keeping up with the economy; some people only log in to CS once a week, or are returning users that have lots of older high-value pets that they want to trade off. I agreed with moving the BA to the September list because it lets people know, "Hey, you probably shouldn't swap this pet for its littermate because no one does that and you could get much more." We know that all staff pets have the same rarity, just like we can assume (we will never actually know, but it is very likely) that all Advent '08 dogs from the same litter have the same rarity. But people wanted the BA, just like people want the Shima and Malk mutant. For no reason other than how the pets look.

We know that a Shima Longtail will never be as rare as the pets that people tend to trade it for. It never will be. There will always be less 2008 pets than 2009 pets (aside from adopts available for more than one month) because there were less players in 2008 than 2009. That being said, I would hate to see someone from 2009 return to the game and get sent a trade trying to swap their Shima from some other pet from the same litter. I think that they should have the resources to know that their pet usually goes for much more than that. We all know that it's a bad deal, so why can't we have a formal place to acknowledge that? There's no reason to leave less active users in the dark about it. If I can get X for my pet, then I should be able to find that information easily.

I think that creating this list with the old structure in mind would be a bad idea, because I feel that many pets on the old list were placed inconsistently and without reason. It was founded in error, so it will only continue to contain errors if people keep valuing their pets in accordance with the old list. But at this point, we are never going to get away from things like "X is worth 2.5 nons" because that's the language our community has integrated, and nons have become a staple in high-value pet trading.

If a list is going to be created that satisfies all parties, it needs to be consistent in following market values. We can't just copy and paste the old list and then add high-demand pets next to old placements. I think it would be best to create a list starting with rarity data, then integrating pets that have high demand.

If you really want to add pets like the Shima LT and Dragoncat PPS, maybe you could add them in blue. Add a footnote that lets people know that while these pets aren't old, high-value pets, this is what people usually pay for them.

This shouldn't be a rares list; it should be a market price list. I don't think a rares list will ever work again, but I think a dynamic market price list could work.

[skyline]

i think the market price type idea is fantastic myself actually. ^^ plus, being labeled as such may come off much easier to understand for new users, and those who just don't have much experience with trading. i heavily agree that there should be a note added beside pets like shima longtail and dragon cat. the list should be very clear on whether a pet is actually that rare or not, (granted, with a grain of salt considering there's no telling how rare a pet actually is) and just labels what it's going for throughout the trading community.

i suggest dedicating an entire section of this list to nons, as it's fair to say they should be explained thoroughly, including their history on the former list, and how they ended up playing such a huge part in trading. it will make it much easier for people who don't quite get it, to grasp the idea much better.

if this list is to go through with itself, lots of work is needed to be put in it, and this needs to continue as rarity and demand changes. otherwise it'll simply turn into another discombobulated, unrepairable mess like the previous one was.

[dawnchu]

i think something that would make a lot of people happy (including myself) would be renaming this thread and possibly slightly changing the direction of it!
right now the current title seems extremely official and much like the old rare's list, which rubs off as if only a few select people will have a say in the placing of the pets and all. other players' input is more needed than anything right now, seeing as with the retirement of the old list, values are totally wack.
something i would also suggest to keep in mind is the fact that you're including pets with demand in this list. maybe, because of that, the purpose of the list could be to inform about the current market trading? a rare's list would be more like showing which pets on the site are RARITY-WISE the rarest, not including demand which makes pets more rare than they should be, which is again why i think this should be called a demand/current market list instead.