[🐝] Guide to Trading Every Pet on CS --- **being updated**

[skylark]

I definitely think scaling things down from 100 to 50 is moving in the right direction!

[angst]

maybe before we define these kinds of values we should just monitor how the trading community behaves for the next 6 months or so? That's better than basing a new system off of the opinions of a small group of people, which is where the original List went wrong in the first place.

Formatting the lists to show where everything is one thing and Horror has done an awesome job getting that done so quickly, but I don't think there's any rush in finalising a new "rarity math" system.

I've been lurking for a while, but this is something I think I would really like to reply to. The entire reason I was lurking was because I felt like I didn't have enough trading experience to be participating in this conversation, but Aurora Storm has a good point here. Lots of other people are probably doing the same as me. There's (relatively speaking) not very many people actually participating in these threads compared to how many people there are actively trading on CS, even counting everyone that replies to the polls. I don't know how feasible the "wait and see" approach is, but I think it would be a good idea to consider it as a possibility, especially with the higher value pets.

Maybe, if that's not feasible, we could go back and make some revisions here and there in 6 months or so with hindsight in mind.. I feel like rushing to finalise things, especially with the possibility of an entirely new system, has the potential to make mistakes we don't yet have the hindsight to see flaws with.

Mostly, I'm just worried of a new system being totally set in stone right now, falling into the same traps of the old one and being so rigid that we're still using the same terms like 'non' and 'advent' that I saw all the way back in 2012 when I first joined. I think, whatever we do, we should allow the system to evolve and change as we gain insight into how people are actually trading compared to whatever our new system ends up like.

I'm not sure what the best way forward is, and many of these conversations go way over my head, so I don't know whether this is a realistic idea. But I just wanted to throw in my two cents because this resonated with me.

Apologies for the long quote omg, but yes!

I completely agree with this! Really, really think trading should try to be as user driven as possible.

I *do* still think there's the unfortunate pitfall that ultimately, people are defaulting to old norms and guides even with the new rarities. I think there are some changes? But I'm seeing a ton of folks just using Horror's list. And by "using" I guess I mean asking for help on the trade thread and then getting a response citing Horror's old guide. I don't think that's THAT unfortunate or wrong, but if a big part of the reason trading is inaccessible is because only a handful of users know how to and enjoy interpreting massive lists and deploying that knowledge on the trade thread, it's hard to get a "bottom-up" picture of how people would actually trade if not given that blanket advice. Like, I guess what I'm saying is it's not totally a sign that "oh! People love the old guide!" but comes from that same anxious place we've all been talking about where users don't feel they have the expertise to make their own trading decisions and are perpetually scared of getting "ripped off."

Just my two cents! But yeah, love the idea of seeing where site members take things.

[sky,]

-snip for space-

Apologies for the long quote omg, but yes!

I completely agree with this! Really, really think trading should try to be as user driven as possible.

I *do* still think there's the unfortunate pitfall that ultimately, people are defaulting to old norms and guides even with the new rarities. I think there are some changes? But I'm seeing a ton of folks just using Horror's list. And by "using" I guess I mean asking for help on the trade thread and then getting a response citing Horror's old guide. I don't think that's THAT unfortunate or wrong, but if a big part of the reason trading is inaccessible is because only a handful of users know how to and enjoy interpreting massive lists and deploying that knowledge on the trade thread, it's hard to get a "bottom-up" picture of how people would actually trade if not given that blanket advice. Like, I guess what I'm saying is it's not totally a sign that "oh! People love the old guide!" but comes from that same anxious place we've all been talking about where users don't feel they have the expertise to make their own trading decisions and are perpetually scared of getting "ripped off."

Just my two cents! But yeah, love the idea of seeing where site members take things.

I disagree with letting users completely set the tone and here is why. I actually think you made quite a few points that support my argument that it would benefit everyone to have a "new" guide. As you said "But I'm seeing a ton of folks just using Horror's list. And by "using" I guess I mean asking for help on the trade thread and then getting a response citing Horror's old guide." People will wind up using some sort of guide regardless. Otherwise, it would be generally impossible to trade. Especially while there is such a rise in frustration from some players when you send an "unfair" trade. Without a guide, what deems a trade unfair?

This is one of the few chances that we, as a userbase, can set the tone for trading on this site. With the rarity changes, I fear things will only get worse unless we do something about it quickly. We saw that once the "Rares list" officially ended and people were free to value pets how they pleased. I had taken a hiatus from prior to the list ending and came back once Horrors original list first started. Things were nuts. Especially the C$ side had notable inflation. I think the main problem is that people take their pets (say a pet worth 2-3 nons) and they value them at the max they can, but they also like the pet so that turns into 3.5 nons. People see them valuing that pet at 3.5 nons and start doing the same. Eventually, once that pet is "worth" 3.5 nons, someone will like the pet and say it's worth 4 nons and so on so on. (I think this is what happened to the pps dragoncat) What happens if all the OMGSR pets are now worth a non? That would be absolutely insane. "..users don't feel they have the expertise to make their own trading decisions and are perpetually scared of getting "ripped off." I believe that the values would continually inflate drastically for that very reason (not saying that you agree with that. I am just expressing my concerns)

One can argue that creating a new guide that people generally agree upon is taking it into our hands. This rarity change can either be very good or very bad for the trading environment on this site

[angst]

^ oh I think we agree, I was just agreeing with letting the user base trade for a hot second before coming to consensus about a guide! I'm not saying we don't need / shouldn't have a general guide at all!

Thanks for the reply!! ❤️

Editing: I realize your post may mean to *not* wait so folks don't feel / get ripped off! Which is, obviously, a totally valid point of view! My bad.

It's hard b/c I feel an easy way to accommodate both these concerns + impulses -- one about having a handful of members dictate the bulk of site trading by virtue of being the only ones considered in + considering a site-wide guide, and the other about worrying there needs to be immediate structure / a guide in place so users who have trouble with trading don't accidentally get "ripped off" -- would be to have a rough guide that is consistently up to date + easily editable by the wider community!

I'm almost tempted to say we need a Google doc like that one super rare item sheet floating around. A doc that can take into account multiple & differing perspectives

[Metax]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet, but check out the CS OMGSR Pet Popularity Poll thread by ♥Princess of Lions♥. The more responses this gets, the better. c:

[Sashtato]

Not sure if this has been posted here yet, but check out the CS OMGSR Pet Popularity Poll thread by ♥Princess of Lions♥. The more responses this gets, the better. c:

Thank you so much for sharing this!! I just submitted my responses and took a look at the results so far. So interesting!! And I think it really is a fantastic idea to get an idea on demand

[Pandora!]

^ oh I think we agree, I was just agreeing with letting the user base trade for a hot second before coming to consensus about a guide! I'm not saying we don't need / shouldn't have a general guide at all!

Thanks for the reply!! ❤️

Editing: I realize your post may mean to *not* wait so folks don't feel / get ripped off! Which is, obviously, a totally valid point of view! My bad.

It's hard b/c I feel an easy way to accommodate both these concerns + impulses -- one about having a handful of members dictate the bulk of site trading by virtue of being the only ones considered in + considering a site-wide guide, and the other about worrying there needs to be immediate structure / a guide in place so users who have trouble with trading don't accidentally get "ripped off" -- would be to have a rough guide that is consistently up to date + easily editable by the wider community!

I'm almost tempted to say we need a Google doc like that one super rare item sheet floating around. A doc that can take into account multiple & differing perspectives

I like the idea of a google doc like the rare item sheet much futher down the line, and I also agree with just letting trading happen for a while to see how things shake out. There's no feasible way to ever control people overcharging/overpaying for pets, and the older pets get the more rare and valuable they will continue to be. At the end of the day, a pet is only worth how much someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of any sort of list or not. If someone wants to try charge 10 nons for the UR banana than whatever floats your boat, you don't have to pay that much if you don't want to. If I think someone is overcharging for a pet I will either offer what I feel like it's worth, or just don't trade with that person.

The problem with having a guide is that it's treated like the be-all end-all of trading worth and value. Honestly this time after the rarity update has been the most fun trading I've had on CS because there's no rosetta stone of CS pet worth that users feel like they need to adhere to. I think if a new "guide" is ever created then there should be extreme care and consideration into getting a wide variety of users involved and shouldn't fall on a single person or small group.

The pet rarity poll is honestly a great start and will help to see how demand/popularity can reflect on the new rarity updates. I also think throwing out MA/non/sorb/etc. is a great place to start removing jargon from the rarity discussion that constantly confused and misleads people who don't have time to dedicate to memorizing all this nitty gritty that can make trading, especially for high demand pets, so exclusive and uninviting.

------------------------

also, edit to say that I agree comepletely with Lacuna and kee; posts and ideas. I have been on CS since 2008, have a number of valuable pets, and have never felt like I can participate in trading because of all of the sentiments that they have touched on.

[Palimpsest]

(For people that just want to see what to add to one pet)
Same thing above visualized as a basic "jump" from one group to the next one:

(Legacy/stores) are special case-by-case

High OMGSR (July Tier) = unnamed UR Tier from below + Low OMGSR --- OR --- 2 Standard OMGSR
High OMGSR (unnamed UR Tier) = Standard OMGSR from below + Low OMGSR
Standard OMGSR (Non Tier) = Aussie Tier from below + (1-2 ER?) --- OR --- 2 Low OMGSR
Standard OMGSR (Aussie Tier) = Low OMGSR from below + (1-2 ER)
Low/New OMGSR = Upper ER from below + (1-3 mix of any other ER pets)
Upper ER = Low ER from below + (1-2 Old Rares)
Lower ER = Upper VR from below + (1-2 Old Rares)
VR (Pre Update) = Oldish VR from below + (1-2 EUC)
VR (New) = (Any basic pet guidelines like 2:1 math, or small year difference swaps)

With this;
-Gets rid of MA/ renaming MA to ERA/ only sticking to one group based on an outdated list. Any ER pet now applies and the range accounts for that

"High omgsr" is basically what our 1.25-2 Non range is right now scaled to "1 non = 50 rares"
"standard" and "new" OMGSRs are basically what our 0.25-1 Non range is right now scaled to "1 non = 50 rares"

"Upper er" are basically our remaining "0.5- 1MA" pets, but we measure higher-rarity pets in any/all ER pets to remove the mental bias that only one group of them is valuable

-Tries to keep all differences from each ER/VR group tiny and lenient so people don't need to stress much in this area

-"A tiger dog is 5 nons" or "250 Old Rares" still can apply, but players that aren't planning to trade @ like tiger dog or cerb level pets don't need to memorize how many Nons or Standard OMGSRs their pet is worth since this already covers the majority of pets on the site

If anyone has any ideas to further better this or simplify things please post! I threw this together last night along with now adding a section based on this post to try and get something out there. I slept on it but I still think we can improve!

This is something I feel like I could trade in and understand, especially if the rarity categories are kept as simple as is fair... I know several people were resonating with not understanding the higher rarity trading system, would this work for you, too? Or are there reasons it wouldn't?

[Ariete]

I like the idea of a google doc like the rare item sheet much futher down the line, and I also agree with just letting trading happen for a while to see how things shake out. There's no feasible way to ever control people overcharging/overpaying for pets, and the older pets get the more rare and valuable they will continue to be. At the end of the day, a pet is only worth how much someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of any sort of list or not. If someone wants to try charge 10 nons for the UR banana than whatever floats your boat, you don't have to pay that much if you don't want to. If I think someone is overcharging for a pet I will either offer what I feel like it's worth, or just don't trade with that person.

The problem with having a guide is that it's treated like the be-all end-all of trading worth and value. Honestly this time after the rarity update has been the most fun trading I've had on CS because there's no rosetta stone of CS pet worth that users feel like they need to adhere to. I think if a new "guide" is ever created then there should be extreme care and consideration into getting a wide variety of users involved and shouldn't fall on a single person or small group.

The pet rarity poll is honestly a great start and will help to see how demand/popularity can reflect on the new rarity updates. I also think throwing out MA/non/sorb/etc. is a great place to start removing jargon from the rarity discussion that constantly confused and misleads people who don't have time to dedicate to memorizing all this nitty gritty that can make trading, especially for high demand pets, so exclusive and uninviting.

full agree, along with all the other similar sentiments I've seen so far. I kind of wish we'd put a pin in scrambling to create a comprehensive guide at this exact moment and at least let the dust settle first. trying to finely identify exact rarities right now feels like a recipe for disaster...and to be frank, I think the majority of the community (as in, the vast majority - people who don't post on forums or haven't offered their opinion!) isn't interested in that right now.

[preservedfawn]

okay sorry i hope this hasn’t been discussed already but is there info on store pets somewhere? or are we trading rarity for rarity?