metonymy wrote:ShadoWolf0913 wrote:metonymy wrote:To be honest, I resent the implication that a Christian stamp needs to be added to be more "fair", e.g., to make up for or stand in opposition to the stamp that promotes equality for everyone. Please don't let bigots and extremists make you think that Christianity is about hate.
I would like to reiterate my support for more LGBTQA+ stamps - pride flags, and preferred pronoun stamps (including neutral options such as they and hir). We've already made great strides, but let's go all the way and make it clear to our non-heterosexual players that they are welcome c:
I believe Beatus meant "fair" as in everybody being represented, not so there's an "opposition" to the equality stamp. Christianity, and most major religions from what I understand of them, are not about hate; they're supposed to teach the opposite. There are bigots and extremists in everything, but that's not what religion is about, and that's not what I think Beatus meant to imply.
I like that the "human rights" stamp is more or less neutral. Yes, it has a rainbow, but instead of saying something like "I support gay rights," it's designed to cover everything and can be interpreted however you want. I think anything more specific would not be a good idea, since it's bound to cause arguments from the opposition either way.
And, if you want my "two cents" about that stamp, I think the fact that we immediately connect rainbows and equality statements with homosexuality and consider the stamp limited to LGBT rights shows we still have a long way to go. "I support human rights and equality for everything" seems to translate to "I support gay rights" for some people, and while that's part of what the stamp means, the statement is supposed to represent the broader picture: equality for
all, meaning as much race equality, gender equality, age equality, etc. as LGBT equality. By associating it specifically with homosexuality, whether "good" or "bad," we can end up losing a lot of what the stamp is supposed to mean.
Why would we need representation beyond those who want equality for everybody? The only other side to represent is people that, well, don't want equality. Quite frankly we don't need those people around.
Like it or not, the rainbow flag has become a symbol of gay pride. It's definitely part of what the stamp stands for, and it's definitely what people are naturally leaping to when they bring up why they don't like it. Feel free to go back and see Tess saying this to someone who objects to it with a large "anti-homosexuality" as their signature. That's what the symbolism put into there is standing for, among other things.
But you do have a bit of a point. We should have a specific LBGTQA+ support stamp, along with the stamps we other have. And again, I'd love to see some different pride flags for homosexuality, demisexuality, asexuality, etc. along with stamps about preferred pronouns including neutral pronouns.
Quite frankly, I think that "it will cause problems" is a weak argument against. We have queer members and queer mods. It is far more important that CS continue to take a specific stand against bigots and make sure their queer members feel safe and at home here than it is to cater to said bigots. Anyone who will get their feathers severely ruffled by messages of support are ticking time bombs of bigotry ready to explode on innocent members. Not letting them get to that point is advantageous.
I think you're missing the point I was trying to make. It's not a matter of "this side, that side." Supporting equality and being religious are in no way opposites, and it's sad when people can't separate the two. Honestly, people who are against religious expression because they think it means hating equality aren't really any different than people who are against homosexuality because they think it's immoral (I don't mean to imply you specifically, just people in general.) For what it matters, I don't really care one way or the other, since I'm not atheist, but I also don't belong to any organized religion. However, I can understand why some people would want religion stamps, and it does not in any way equate to not wanting equality; it doesn't have to have anything to do with equality or LGBT rights at all. It's just another way of expressing who you are.
Sure, we shouldn't "cater" to bigots because it would alienate or offend "queer" members, but the same can be said the other way, so no, I don't think CS should take a specific side in the LGBT debate. Everyone has a right to their opinion whatever it might be, and if we don't want to encourage hatred, it's better to take a neutral stance while enforcing rules against bullying or harassment of any kind because hatred can come from either side. Again, I don't really care if we have LGBT support or religion stamps or any of that stuff, but I don't think it's helpful to anyone to turn CS into an equality debate forum.
Look, I was just trying to clarify what I believe was a misunderstanding of Beatus' comment and to express a few of my thoughts about the stamp. I am not at all against LGBT rights; my brother is gay and I am what one might call "transgender," although I don't think of myself that way, and I think it's great. Nor am I against religious expression, but there has been plenty of discussion about both subjects on CS already, and I really don't want to start that up again because this isn't the place for an argument about morals or politics or whatever else. This is supposed to be a fun family website, and that was my meaning behind "it's bound to cause arguments" as a reason not to do it. There are many, many more appropriate places for that.
I like these kinds of stamps a lot! 
