New Rule: DNI (Do Not Interact) Lists are Banned

[Celozon]

-snip- I feel this rule needs a little tweaking to be more specific, because making DNIs as a whole completely forbidden is very harsh, as I feel that it's important for everyone (especially minors) to be allowed to have and express their own boundaries to keep themselves safe and comfortable online. It should be encouraged, even.

It's easy to misunderstand the reason for DNIs as someone who isn't mentally ill or traumatized, but for people like me who have severe PSTD as well as other mental disorders, DNIs provide a bit of a shield for me when I'm socializing in public forums- not just on CS, but anywhere. They help me feel safer and more understood by others and they help communicate my boundaries for me effectively when it isn't easy for me to do so.

TL;DR: DNIs that involve directly calling out or name-dropping specific people should be corrected, but I don't think making a rule against DNIs as a whole is a good direction and it seems like more of a great misunderstanding toward what DNIs are meant to do for the people who need them.

(sorry, removed some of your coding as I was unable to read it initially ^^')

I just wanted to clear up, it was initially discussed allowing DNIs with specific rules on what would or would not be allowed, but as Liddie and Simon have said earlier, this starts making them extremely difficult to moderate, and users would likely find 'loopholes' to reword things in such a way to still list them when they should not be listing those, etc. We want to keep user's safe here, but as a whole, DNI lists often ended up creating an unsafe environment for a user, despite the best intentions. And as many have pointed out, DNIs are not something that is regularly checked on a forum-based site for kids like this one is. It may stop a handful of people not interacting with you, but in the long run its unlikely to make a noticeable difference, and could instead cause more harm.

I do understand the point you are trying to make, and it is something we considered when discussing this rule, but this rule is made with the sole intention of protecting our users. Allowing DNIs with limits just isn't feasible at this time. As mentioned before, because of the often vague nature of DNIs, the limits would have to be so strict that very little would be allowed on them at all.

I would also like to add (since this seems to be a common misconception) that we do have staff who struggle with many of the same issues you and other users have. I will not speak for anyone else as its not my place, but I personally have social anxiety disorder, among others, and it often makes my interactions with others extremely difficult. My case may not be as severe as some (I still have to be able to do my duties of course) but that doesn't mean I don't understand and identify with them.

-snip- and on the age issue, if you have 'don't interact with me if you're a minor' in your dni list, a minor sees that and then doesn't speak to you, bringing up their age is never an issue because they read your dni and didn't interact with you in the first place? so i don't fully understand how that's an issue because you'll never have to interact with them anyway. as someone who has a certain age range for 18+ folks on my dni list because of trauma, if a person in that range sees it and does not to interact with me, it's never an issue and their age is never discussed because they don't interact with me.
obviously that will not always be the case, but i feel being safe is better than being sorry.

The issue with this specifically is that its not something we can enforce. There is no way for you to 'know' they are a minor because user's can't share their age here (or that they are a minor) and they shouldn't be telling you. It also should be expected that some interactions with minors will occur here regardless, because this is a site directed at children.

[NumbatNibbles]

i have an example for where DNIs would come in handy actually. the example is this: someone who i wont mention here did something very bad to us as a system that we wont say what it was because the actions arent cs appropriate but thats not the point. the bad stuff got to the point where just seeing the name of that person, whether or not it was directed at that person, would cause me and multiple alters who got hurt in the same way by them if said alters happened to be fronting to be sent into a panic bad enough to cause us to pass out for hours. thus we started asking people on the site it happened on to at least try to censor the name or avoid mentioning the name around me at all.

another thing sorry if it sounds rude but not everyone is in the right position to seek help for their trauma

also thanks for the clarification about the user part of dni lists, Lacuna. thats vvv helpful! /gen
-Haunt

[mitziolet]

i don't agree with this new rule

[stormy tom]

It seems to me that if someone is messaging with the direct intent of harassing, they won't care about DNIs (and should be reported/blocked no matter what).
Otherwise, making a DNI about something like a fandom, for example, assumes that a user would reach out without context about a topic you wouldn't have expressed interest in with your signature/trade rules/avatar. If you wanted to talk about a topic, you would venture to the associated forum topic.

And as mentioned by other users, there are more efficient ways of filtering messages if you're worried about someone bringing up something that triggers you, something innocuous to them but is a risk of appearing in conversation.
I can't see DNIs serving more utility than harm, so I think this is a good rule. I'm sure there are more layers to this, but those are my initial thoughts.

[Lacuna]

i have an example for where DNIs would come in handy actually. the example is this: someone who i wont mention here did something very bad to us as a system that we wont say what it was because the actions arent cs appropriate but thats not the point. the bad stuff got to the point where just seeing the name of that person, whether or not it was directed at that person, would cause me and multiple alters who got hurt in the same way by them if said alters happened to be fronting to be sent into a panic bad enough to cause us to pass out for hours. thus we started asking people on the site it happened on to at least try to censor the name or avoid mentioning the name around me at all.

another thing sorry if it sounds rude but not everyone is in the right position to seek help for their trauma

also thanks for the clarification about the user part of dni lists, Lacuna. thats vvv helpful! /gen
-Haunt

To be honest, that doesn't sound like a DNI; it sounds like you would want a browser extension to block a word from appearing on the internet for you.

And I do want to clarify when we as staff encourage someone to seek a trusted adult (or helpline/hotline), this is in a way saying "we understand that you're struggling, but that is not something we are qualified or able to help with." Also, users are responsible for their behavior in public and towards other users even if they have trauma or other struggles, and we can't let someone speak disrespectfully or abusively just because they are experiencing a crisis, because that hurts others as well.

[Falco]

I read the monthly update and I thought that cs added a DNI list for their website and I was very confused. This makes more sense

We personally don’t like using DNI lists because it’s the internet so it’s pretty hard for those lists to actually work, but I understand that they make people more comfortable.

[zanguse]

not the smartest new rule. dni are useful i have some fandoms i cannot stand on there for a reason.

why is someone being interested in something you don’t like an immediate warrant for refusing to interact with them? i have tons of friends that are into things i don’t like. there are certain fandoms i despise, yet i have friends who got into the thing; we might not discuss it, but we’re still friends. a person’s identity isn’t contingent upon their interests.

[Light Bringer]

As someone who has PTSD and anxiety, I agree with this rule. Although I may see some things that trigger me very rarely, it is much more triggerring seeing it continuously pop up on DNI lists.
Additionally, I know how much it may feel safe to block all contact from triggers, but, both on the internet and in real life, thats not possible.
If someone continuously says things that trigger you, then block them. But most of the time, that trigger will never come up unless prompted. Which it what DNI lists seem to do.

[milkyfruitz]

I feel like this whole conversation of "Block and be done!" is a little contradictory. The whole point is to not have someone interact in the first place. It is necessary sometimes, but just blocking everyone who falls under someone's discomforts is easier said than done.

DNIs seem stupid to some, and useful to others. They don't work for some; and they work wonders for others. That's the internet. No one is going to agree unanimously to any one topic. The point is that you can decide if you want to participate in something or not.

Rules on CS are already tight. Especially since the offsite rule, which was in good intent, it's been hard to interact in any CS community without being kicked for something small. People redo their profiles both on-site and off, it gets difficult to include any important basic info about yourself here or off-site (Discord is the main example that comes to mind), and this rule is only going to make that harder.

People are going to be harassed with or without a DNI list. People are going to dislike you and/or your interests, whether you list what makes you uncomfortable or not. At the end of the day, you're targeted by someone (usually, not always) who has opposing beliefs. If you have a certain character as your profile picture, someone could easily make fun of you for being in that fandom. It doesn't take a list for bullies to bully you.

Just because someone doesn't care about someone's DNI list doesn't mean people should erase them. That shouldn't be a deciding factor in the argument. If someone ignores a DNI and the person finds out, they need to block and move on, not take out their list as a whole that could very well be a useful tool for them.

Whether you understand or not, some people simply have triggers and discomforts that they cannot work around right now. I myself have a few due to mental health issues and trauma; therapy is not something you can put a timer on, and not everyone gets the privilege of getting help. A lot of people, especially kids, seek comfort online when this is the case. It isn't the safest, but it's all some people have, especially in the age of COVID. If someone wants to have a list, why does it matter? Most DNI lists are there to prevent breakdowns, extreme discomfort, etc. in a space people deem safe. It doesn't make sense to bring up the "real world" argument, because for many it's simply a way of keeping a safe space safe. Chicken Smoothie is pushed as a safe, family friendly site filled with artists, cute pets, and a kind community. People want to feel safe in a time where safety is not easy to find for all. I don't see why we can't just keep things the way they were; I genuinely cannot see how this is going to change anything except for the comfort of those who thought DNI lists were annoying to see.

I'm sorry if my tone seemed off in any of this, it's hard for me to emit tone over text. Of course we'll have to respect the rule as long as it's in place; I really just don't think it will change anything.

[Jijing]

I feel like this whole conversation of "Block and be done!" is a little contradictory. The whole point is to not have someone interact in the first place. It is necessary sometimes, but just blocking everyone who falls under someone's discomforts is easier said than done.

-snip-

As I said before, you can filter your PMs to only people you have on your friend list. As to blocking, I understand that it is a grueling task if you have a very common trigger, however, if you join a forum site with hundreds of different players and have a very common trigger, you need to prepare yourself for that obstacle. If you have a more niche or uncommon trigger, yes, getting triggered is a risk however, wherever you go in real life or on the internet, you take that risk. If it is uncommon, you should have no trouble blocking the few people that do trigger you.