Suggestion: Fewer tokens + some Summer Event Changes

[steampoweredfan]

Extremely in favor!

People have been curious about how casual players are fairing; I was very hardcore from about 4 months ago backwards, but I had to cut down because I was getting genuinely distressed about missing things, which was very unhealthy because it is just a game. I would, at this point, consider myself more casual, but not as casual as I imagine many players are. Collecting is infuriating. I'm at work and internally grumbling at customers because it's been 20 minutes I need to get a token and that's really just a bad way to be. I feel like the token collecting system is designed to require almost every 20 minute collecting, besides time to sleep everyday. It just seems a little too rigorous for what it is, you know? I've considered waiting a few months to trade for them and just ignore the event, but obviously that's not what I chose.

And touching on the rarity issue, if things are a little less rare, does it really matter? Event pets are impossible to trade for anyways, whether they're common or rare. Demand issues could be lessened significantly if people weren't so worried about getting all of these rare pets before they have to wait a year or more to be able to trade for face value.

And I get that staff is probably a little upset at such harsh criticism, which is understandable because I know it's a small and very dedicated team, but all of the users really do appreciate the events; otherwise we wouldn't participate in them. But I think it's important for users to say how they feel. Being able to voice and respond to criticisms vital to staying relevant and happy.


Quick Edit:
I do want to add that the duck races have been my favorite event/sub-event since I've joined the site. It's adorable, the plushies are adorable, and I love watching it!
(I'm curious if we'll get them as racers, like we got last year, but I'm not too worried; we have stickers. )

[Erythro]

big post incoming, sorry!
i've been gone one day and this happens? oh my god i have so much to say and comment on so lets get on with it.

first off, yay another stats person around! secondly, looking at the numbers posted by celozon, it doesn't see that each token is 4% probability but actually each set is 25% which means it's actually less likely to get a specific fruit than it is to get a specific seedling or seed, or the fourth one (coin/button/idk?) simply because there are so many fruits.

changing directions, i would like to say that i do not think cs is trying to be exploitative at all. i think there were very good intentions behind the changes to the summer events and if i was younger i would have absolutely loved them because i had all the time in the world to sit around and play cs! but that's not the world i live it anymore. i'm an adult and i have adult responsibilities. i've spent over 8 years of my life on this game and i don't intend to leave or something as silly as tokens in a summer event. i'll just do what i've done in previous years and get what i can which is about 50% of the available pets and items and trade for the rest after the event. my only issue is that i shouldn't have to do that. i spent a couple hours on cs most days and check it pretty often even w/o events so i can bump my trade/auction/offsite threads because the ultimate goal of this game is to have a complete collection. it's why we're all here right? (note, i saw what you said burr but kids only going after the "cute" ones is still collecting)

i do agree that the banner style of hunting and the accepted rate of all-nighters is a bit alarming and if my sister still played, i would be worried about her pulling the same stunts i did when i was younger to get as many banners as possible. questionably fun fact; my first all nighter was because of cs banner hunting. i would also like to add that i think the space event was the hardest event in terms of being overwhelming but that was also the year we got extended maps right? i think that was the first event i noped out of because that's where the overwhelming feeling started. then last year with the lost city where you had to trade in tokens for other tokens, which in turn were for other tokens then for pets was a bit much. i don't mind smaller token trade ins for other tokens (ie the raven perch from the dream event to get the ravens because that was really straightforward).

about the C$ trade and normal trading, i don't think C$ is the easiest to trade for at all because most people are only willing to trade their C$ for list or rares. I do believe FR gems are the easiest because they are so prevalent in the game as well as, you can literally get them for free (even if it is a very slow process to earn a lot for free). i will agree with the statements that C$ stores are very successful as i even have one myself. i am very curious about the average number of hours you need to spend on cs to collect everything. the time that you can collect tokens doesn't really matter when you're looking at how many hours you need to collect enough tokens to get certain outcomes.

anyway, i'm gonna talk about the proposed ideas now:

item pack at the end of the event: i love this idea and am in full support
double tokens from banners: the only way i can see this work is if the time between banners is extended to 30 minutes or something. yes, i realize this is essentially the same as lowering the time between banners but ultimately it's more results for less time and i support that as someone who has less time available for cs.
less rng/change games: i love the rng/chance games like the duck races or the races last year but having more than one chance game seems a bit much for me and i'm not even having bad luck. (rip susiron i'm so sorry). another idea i'd like to thrown in with here is maybe the last place (ie 4th place) option just returns your token to you? although i would suggest keeping that at a relatively low probability of happening since it could be tedious for users to get their token back 4 or 5 times in a row.

new ideas that i've only seen myself mention or not talked about at all:

bring back the second token mechanic: anyone else remember the medieval faire clearing token grab that you had once an hour? can you imagine if the seedlings had been moved to a second clearing area like that so you can only grab them once an hour? our total token count would be the same but there would be different ways to get those tokens and that is an idea i am in favor of. i am aware many of you will say that "i don't have time" but there is no searching for this token. you go the page, you click on the part of the map where you get it and BOOM another token. so you will have this once an hour and a banner every twenty minutes. overall thats 4 tokens in an hour instead of 3 as it currently is.
EDIT: YOU BROUGHT IT BACK!!!! i just checked the jungle since i missed rollover. i'm glad you brought it back! i would just love if they weren't a new set of tokens. cause now we're up to like 33 tokens right?
to help ease some tensions for *this event* as it stands right now: simply give us another 1-3 days of token hunting since this event is already so short. if we can have this for *this event*, maybe next year we can have the token pack after the event is over.

i probably have typos and mumble in spots so i'm sorry. if you have any questions, feel free to ask here or PM me. i don't mind either way.

i want to once again say that if i were younger, i would have loved these changes but i simply don't have the time to keep up with all of this anymore. i really really really love cs. i am so immensely proud of all of the work that goes into these events an i don't want staff to think it isn't appreciated. you did such a great job that it went a little overboard and that's where i think your efforts and energy can be redirected into things that keep all types of cs players happy.

[ElementalInsanity]

@Erythro- I highly like the suggestion of extending this event. This isn’t just the small group voicing it either, I’ve seen a number on both event threads saying it too.

I love the idea of a token pack after the event as I’ve said.
And honestly I could even get behind a thirty minute two token banner. That would still help people immensely who can rarely get on and would be a lot less stress every twenty minutes. =)

[BuddyMaltese]

@Erythro- I highly like the suggestion of extending this event. This isn’t just the small group voicing it either, I’ve seen a number on both event threads saying it too.

I love the idea of a token pack after the event as I’ve said.
And honestly I could even get behind a thirty minute two token banner. That would still help people immensely who can rarely get on and would be a lot less stress every twenty minutes. =)

I'm also in favor of these ideas!
I also came up with another idea and am curious as to what people think:
What if there were options to trade in two types of tokens for one of another type? If we used this event as an example, maybe you could trade in two fruits for a button? I think that would be good for people who get a lot of type X but reaalllyyy need type Y for a specific trade in, and since it's a 2:1 ratio and not 1:1, think it would help avoid the problem of people being able to get whatever the heck they want without some sort of cost on their part c:

[Erythro]

@Erythro- I highly like the suggestion of extending this event. This isn’t just the small group voicing it either, I’ve seen a number on both event threads saying it too.

I love the idea of a token pack after the event as I’ve said.
And honestly I could even get behind a thirty minute two token banner. That would still help people immensely who can rarely get on and would be a lot less stress every twenty minutes. =)

I'm also in favor of these ideas!
I also came up with another idea and am curious as to what people think:
What if there were options to trade in two types of tokens for one of another type? If we used this event as an example, maybe you could trade in two fruits for a button? I think that would be good for people who get a lot of type X but reaalllyyy need type Y for a specific trade in, and since it's a 2:1 ratio and not 1:1, think it would help avoid the problem of people being able to get whatever the heck they want without some sort of cost on their part c:

a small edit to that is any two tokens for any one other token. my only question is how would one go about coding that to be concise and easy to use for all users? especially with so many tokens haha

[ElementalInsanity]

I’m not completely keen on the idea of two tokens for one lol. I’d hate to have to do that and maybe would just rather.. trade with someone? =)

and I’m always one for just being straight swap so it would be frustrating to have to give two tokens -forty minutes of hunting-for one. ^^’

[Celozon]

So, small questions, only be skimming for the most part so may have missed something. But it sounds like this conversation is no longer about there being too many individual tokens? Correct me if I'm wrong, but sounds more like a complaint on how events in general are run, since this one is no different from previous summer events.

Kinda sounds like time for a new thread, or changing the topic of this one?

[Erythro]

So, small questions, only be skimming for the most part so may have missed something. But it sounds like this conversation is no longer about there being too many individual tokens? Correct me if I'm wrong, but sounds more like a complaint on how events in general are run, since this one is no different from previous summer events.

Kinda sounds like time for a new thread, or changing the topic of this one?

although this thread started out with the intention of reducing the number of tokens (and that suggestion is still on the table), it has transitioned into a brainstorming thread that staff are welcome to read and take ideas from or even post input, although we've only heard from lacuna and simon in the beginning. we're trying to come up with ideas that are fun and entertaining for all users that also aren't overwhelming on users that don't have the time/energy to spend 30s-1min every 20 minutes on cs.

it's possible we need to change the topic but i also believe we need to come up with a concise list of ideas to show in the main post. i feel the brainstorming here has been very productive and for the most part been very good about building upon each other's ideas without being rude or mean.

[metonymy]

my comments have been directed in part towards what makes this summer event different, sorry for the confusion. to summarize:

- this summer event is different from other summer events because of the number of tokens.

- because of this, consumer confidence is being eroded (see my extended point about how this can be seen as exploitative) (i don't think it is programmed really to be exploitative, but that is how it's coming off)

- this summer event is also different because it's happening now, as opposed to in the past. this sounds very obvious, but what i mean is: it is taking place after several watershed moments for consumers of video games, especially when it comes to... A) any game mechanic that relies on collecting items based on chance (e.g., lootboxes, or the 'lucky dip' of which token you get when you click a banner here). B) chance in games as driving players to microtransactions. C) how microtransactions and other monetization strategies are tolerated. D) most important to CS - how these things are tolerated in games primarily marketed to teens and children.

in short:

i'm trying to say that we have a potential perfect storm here. the tension is already in the air and video game players/consumers are well aware of recent scandals. many of these scandals are big enough to have hit mainstream news media, governmental legislators, etc...

by putting out a summer event that feels more unfair (relying on tokens that you get through random chance, and most of the time you don't get a token directly, but basically a fraction of a token perhaps once you complete a set - in other words, a lot more types of currency than in previous events), and then brushing off consumer concerns, there's a potential powderkeg here.

(if i didn't give a damn about chickensmoothie, i wouldn't be wanting people to take note of this, i hasten to reiterate. i'm not saying this to be mean or bring people down. i'm going "woah woah woah woah i don't wanna see chickensmoothie get eviscerated the way foopets did". see the colbert report, "kid-owe" segment, it's still up on comedy central's website. not linked because of language because, well, it's a late nite type show, but you can find it easily.)

in short, too many tokens is the problem; i'm pointing out that too many tokens is making people feel like it's unfair, which is a bigger problem than people may think because it is going to play right into current fears and consumer worries.

it's not just people saying "this event is a bit funky", the stakes are a lot higher than i think cs staff would like to admit here.

(again - if i didn't care, i wouldn't be putting the effort into saying this stuff.)

there are multiple solutions which i think would work - rebalancing the tokens, publicizing the official drop rates for tokens, etc. (there are some solutions which i think would emphatically not work: if we EVER see a "buy tokens outright for microtransactions", that's crossed a line. and if we see "pay a microtransaction to get a loot box of random tokens!", i will feed chickensmoothie to the slavering games journalism media myself. however, i don't actually want the site closed down after being called out by Jim Sterling. i want a good solution to this.)

but it's a deeper problem than i think some people are giving it credit for. this is not just whiny players. this is playing right in to a major controversy that has been breaking careers and companies and attracting governmental attention of the very bad sort. hence why i'm speaking up.

[ElementalInsanity]

@Cel @Erythro I don’t think we should change the topic of this thread. Many people still want fewer tokens. Perhaps a new thread or something...?