Change Trade Reversal Process

[Pinkie Cooper]

Coming here to say a bit more; I really hope they at least at the very very least set people's balance back to zero. I find the system still really unfair.
If it's going to be effecting literally 20+ players, at that point, just make the pets. This was such a mass scale, and still nothing is really being done to correct it. There's a degree to which a reversal negatively effects too many people for it to be worth it. Taking away possibly months of trading. Nothing about that is fair to anyone. It shouldn't even be possible for C$ to go negative on a rule abiding account. The system needs an overhaul if things like this can happen. The rules need to be mended.
I understand, the hacked account deserves their pets back, I'm not denying that, but why should 20+ users have to suffer insane pet loss, majorly rares and up, including an OMGSR? At that point it seems more like punishing the playerbase for someone else's wrongdoings.
On top of that the insane locking of threads was nuts. If the staff won't reimburse people for their lost effort, and time, why can't players? They locked my previous thread hardly giving any answers, basically just copying something I had already mentioned, giving little to no clarity, just "sometimes people get hacked and so you all have to deal with the communal loss" Why? Why... And ON TOP OF THAT that I saw multiple people say they had similar trade reversal requests flat out denied. What is fair about this? It seems way too up to discretion. There needs to be solid boundaries for every single aspect of a trade reversal, including the domino effect. As well as giving a reason to the effected people, still, would be nice. A copy pasted message is fine. I appreciate that a notification will be added but would it be too much to also ask that a reason be provided? That was mainly what I was asking for in my previous suggestion thread, and only half of it was delivered, again with no reason as to why we can't have explanations.
When it's just the two effected users, there's no privacy that needs to be protected, it's between those two players. The only reason this is such a huge problem is the lack of proper response and damage control.
Also, the fact you can go into negative C$ for someone else hacking an account you happened to trade, feels exploitive to me. Or even an account another person one trade ago decided to trade. It's ridiculous.
Because there's been no announcement I can only assume nothing is being done to remedy the situation.
I also agree with the notion of, if I was effected/effected worse, I probably would quit. If I was put into negative C$ I probably would quit on the spot. I'm not going into DEBT on a free game. Kudos to everyone trying to build up what they lost, I can't imagine being in that position.

[macintalk]

support of course
i wanted to bring something up. i notice the user who had a lot of trades reversed a few weeks back, all the reversed pets are doing nothing but rotting in the pets without a group. i totally support the hacked user in these situations getting their pets back, who wouldn't lol, but isn't it strange for pets to go straight back to rotting on an inactive account, after being on an account where someone actually wanted them, and wanted to keep them? i don't get why they can't just duplicate the pets for the original user or something like that, it just seems sad that a lot of people obtain their favorite pets and such only to get them taken away and put back on a rotting account. no one should be hacking inactive accounts regardless, but it just seems weird for the pets to go straight back to rotting. if the user is inactive, is there really an issue with recreating the pets? i don't think the hacker should be allowed to keep any pets (if they traded them to their own account, and things like that) but i think those that traded the hacker deserve to keep the pets they fairly traded for, even if the original pet was obtained like this. like i said, wouldn't it be easier (and kinder to the community) to just duplicate the pet to give one back to the original user?
some of these pets are even on a deleted account now, this whole situation just seems generally super unfair. my friend had a zonkey they traded for that's rotting on a deleted account now.

[Lanayru]

Huge, HUGE support. I wasn't personally affected but a lot of people I know were, and the fact that completely innocent users are losing their dreamies or sinking thousands of C$ into debt is wrong. The economical impacts of just recreating any lost pets or C$ to the original user directly would have been far lesser than what we have in our hands now.

I appreciate that tradebacks at least give a notif now, but the way conversation is being silenced and redirected to private channels is really concerning...

[Lifora]

Not removing my post, but there was a response here: https://www.chickensmoothie.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=142273050#p142273050

keeping my response so people can see what I was wrong about and not say the same/think the same as said in my post

I think they should just completely give the c$ back to users.

I'm going to focus on artists as to why.

Artists put HOURS of work into their art. Sadly, they won't be getting any c$ back, from how the site seems to be acting right now.

Consider this, artists get nothing in return for work they spent hours on, as well as perhaps even in the minus. Artists usually commission other artists, and some take payment before or after. Now there's artists who were commissioned that won't be getting payment, either wasting time on a piece or going to pressure the other user to pay who simply can't, or some who just finished but are completely minus or have accepted payment first and must finish a commission and getting nothing in return.

Getting set to 0 is not just a slap in the face, it is a complete *punch* to those who got a lot of c$ and saved, or those who underprice their work but put hours of time into it. They got paid for their time, or at least was supposed to.

I feel bad for commissioners too. I know it can be stressful to have to pay someone but a situation suddenly happens where you simply cannot afford it. I'm sure a lot of you have commissioned someone with usd, and the artist wanted payment after, and have pretty much finished. Suddenly, something happens and you end up in the hospital and must put money towards that or some other situation, like food, vet bills, etc. Obviously, CS isn't as serious as going to a hospital (And I don't mean to undermine that by comparing it to CS stuff), but you'll see where I am getting at.

Those who commissioned artists are likely going to either never get their art or have to sell a lot of their stuff or spend real dollars to make stuff right for the artist who spent hours on the work. Or, the artist doesn't care, and will just finish the work for free. Commissioners had the money, but it was suddenly yanked from them because of something that they did NOT consent or agree to, or have ANY warning of.

C$ that was likely earned by another artist spending hours on work to commission another. I haven't been doing commissions for a long time here, but if I was, I would of certainly been effected.

So no, don't set it to 0, set it back to the actual amount.

[BARBOSSA]

I think they should just completely give the c$ back to users.

I'm going to focus on artists as to why.

Artists put HOURS of work into their art. Sadly, they won't be getting any c$ back, from how the site seems to be acting right now.

Consider this, artists get nothing in return for work they spent hours on, as well as perhaps even in the minus. Artists usually commission other artists, and some take payment before or after. Now there's artists who were commissioned that won't be getting payment, either wasting time on a piece or going to pressure the other user to pay who simply can't, or some who just finished but are completely minus or have accepted payment first and must finish a commission and getting nothing in return.

Getting set to 0 is not just a slap in the face, it is a complete *punch* to those who got a lot of c$ and saved, or those who underprice their work but put hours of time into it. They got paid for their time, or at least was supposed to.

I feel bad for commissioners too. I know it can be stressful to have to pay someone but a situation suddenly happens where you simply cannot afford it. I'm sure a lot of you have commissioned someone with usd, and the artist wanted payment after, and have pretty much finished. Suddenly, something happens and you end up in the hospital and must put money towards that or some other situation, like food, vet bills, etc. Obviously, CS isn't as serious as going to a hospital (And I don't mean to undermine that by comparing it to CS stuff), but you'll see where I am getting at.

Those who commissioned artists are likely going to either never get their art or have to sell a lot of their stuff or spend real dollars to make stuff right for the artist who spent hours on the work. Or, the artist doesn't care, and will just finish the work for free. Commissioners had the money, but it was suddenly yanked from them because of something that they did NOT consent or agree to, or have ANY warning of.

C$ that was likely earned by another artist spending hours on work to commission another. I haven't been doing commissions for a long time here, but if I was, I would of certainly been effected.

So no, don't set it to 0, set it back to the actual amount.

I agree entirely that it would be a huge slap in the face to many artists on the site. Ideally it would be nice for everything to be returned, no questions asked, but considering how many specific instances they'd have to flip through to ensure artists are remaining paid, while pet trades are being reversed... I don't imagine that'll be the case. I think that everyone, despite wishing it could just be set back to normal, is mostly just hoping to get out of the negatives, so that future projects and customers aren't for nothing either.

[ActualWoodelf]

honestly if we were affected as badly as some other users here we would never want to use this site again + would warn others against it, and thats something staff needs to take into consideration when doing something like this

I also agree with the notion of, if I was effected/effected worse, I probably would quit. If I was put into negative C$ I probably would quit on the spot. I'm not going into DEBT on a free game. Kudos to everyone trying to build up what they lost, I can't imagine being in that position.

Thank you to each of you for sharing your thoughts on the issue. I think this is a particularly important point to draw attention to, as I feel similarly and this point may make the most difference to staff!

I actually did go into the negative C$-wise, and I would just say that it has MAJORLY changed my perspective on how invested I plan to be on here in the future, particularly if nothing changes regarding transparency around issues like this, let alone the reversal issue itself. I can certainly imagine how those affected even more would feel similarly. It's hard to feel trustful when real-world currency is used to purchase CS currency, and then that CS currency can be swiped away and called fair because some person you may never have interacted with hacked someone else you also never interacted with. It's just an unstable setup, and makes me want to put my finances, virtual or otherwise, in other places.

To me, I do think this is a bit of an ultimatum moment, honestly. I would really like to see progress in communication, in empathy, and in action.

[Lifora]

I agree entirely that it would be a huge slap in the face to many artists on the site. Ideally it would be nice for everything to be returned, no questions asked, but considering how many specific instances they'd have to flip through to ensure artists are remaining paid, while pet trades are being reversed... I don't imagine that'll be the case. I think that everyone, despite wishing it could just be set back to normal, is mostly just hoping to get out of the negatives, so that future projects and customers aren't for nothing either.

I can see where you are coming from regarding the work staff would have to do. I honestly think they sorta did it to themselves though. They could of just copied c$ and give it to the original accounts effected and duplicate pets, instead of making it everyone elses problem who did ... well, nothing wrong.

I remember not to long ago people were saying some pets are literally impossible to trade for- I think this is a perfect chance to add more pets to the game, especially if they add some type of thing to show the pet is a duplicate from hacking, something like that

I do think you are right though. The best anyone can hope for is likely just getting set to 0.

[Metax]

Although I doubt anything will be done to remedy any of the side-effects of these reversals (I've luckily only had 4 trades reversed, and although they've undone much of the progress I've made towards a complete collection, it's nothing too bad), I'll hop in and ask for transparency. This whole ordeal feels shady and swept under the rug. All the threads are being locked up, and very little information has been shared. If the staff agreed that this would be the best course of action - sure, but there has been no warning issued, no conversation started, no announcement made. It comes as no surprise that CS has been dwindling for years when the staff is so far removed from the community and this will only serve to continue pushing people away.

I'd love to know why this scam/hack in particular deserved such special treatment.

[Lifora]

Although I doubt anything will be done to remedy any of the side-effects of these reversals (I've luckily only had 4 trades reversed, and although they've undone much of the progress I've made towards a complete collection, it's nothing too bad), I'll hop in and ask for transparency. This whole ordeal feels shady and swept under the rug. All the threads are being locked up, and very little information has been shared. If the staff agreed that this would be the best course of action - sure, but there has been no warning issued, no conversation started, no announcement made. It comes as no surprise that CS has been dwindling for years when the staff is so far removed from the community and this will only serve to continue pushing people away.

I'd love to know why this scam/hack in particular deserved such special treatment.

I agree with the transparency issue. I honestly might be a bit wrong in what I know, and it's really annoying because when I try to talk about it some arguments I make or discussions may be wrong. I wish they'd just make a post on the front page and make an official thread to answer questions on as well as clear up some assumptions.

[General Chaos]

crazy how so many people went into C$ debt right before they updated their payment page

So, I got a PM saying;;

"Hey Chaos,

It seems you have done trades involving art with this user recently.
redacted

Unfortunately, the account was compromised meaning this user's pets left their account without their consent. You don't need to worry about the payment, we are figuring this out on our end. However, we would please ask you to report them over on toyhouse for scamming if you find your art and have an account there. Anything you made for them since the 1st of June was paid for with stolen pets/items/C$. This appears to be the intruder's account:
redacted

(Just to make this clear, the actual owner of the CS account does not appear to be the same person as toyhou.se user redacted!)

Thank you!"

But never got a trade reversal.
So I can get notifications for a non-reversal issue but people get trades reversed with no notification?