Sell Chicken Smoothie (Poll Has Been Reset!)

[Ippolit]

I just read through everything and wow
I have to say I'm VERY glad to see the staff responding to this
This gives me a lot of hope
Thanks guys for having a constructive discussion and thank you staff for reading this

[Tailish]

woo here we go again

State of the Debate
a not-so-concise summary of the last 26 pages of arguments, happenings, and ideas
for reference and also other people who were, like me, mostly asleep while all of this was going down

1. Chronological

0. Preface

•Over the past few months, several threads (x x x + more) were created expressing user frustrations about a lack of updates to the site, as well as a lack of communication.
•None were formally responded to by staff.

1. Cinnamon Sticks posts Sell Chicken Smoothie.

•The gist of it is this: "As you may have been noticing, chicken smoothie is.. dying. It's losing members, its losing interest, and it's staffing team just don't seem to care anymore. The solution? Tess and Nick are clearly too busy for CS, the staff have lives outside of CS.. so I think it's time to sell or pass it on to someone new, someone with fresh ideas and the experience to make the right changes[...]
A commitment was made when this site was created. Tess herself admitted she didn't expect CS to be as popular as it is, but after 10 years of being on the internet and still going, the admins have vanished[...]
Compromise or rehome CS and gives us a future for it, don't leave it to die and make our's and your's investment and time mean nothing."

2. Many, many people post their support for the suggestion.

•See the first few pages of the thread. A typical post looks like this.
•Several common comments or concerns return frequently:

•The rules are not clear enough, which leads to confusion and frustration amongst members (and also in the discord. Punishment is inconsistent; some report that punishments for minor rule breaks are much too harsh, while others observe that users posting hateful content are not held to account.
•The admins are absentee; there is no good communication between users and admins. The suggestions forum is especially problematic.
•The site feels stale; there is a severe lack of updates when compared to similar sites.
•Selling CS is a drastic option and should be left as a last resort, as it's impossible to guarantee what the new owners will do.

3. Some people disagree.

•The most frequent disagreement by far is to the idea of selling the site; some believe it should be on the table, some see it as a last resort, and some see the as a way to get the attention of staff rather than a serious suggestion.
•Some people also disagree with the notion that the site is dying.
•Very few people disagree with the post as a whole. Reasons mentioned are things like the work the mods and artists continuously put in to keep the site up and running. Furthermore, the revolutionary style and tone of the thread are also criticised.

4. lillibeth,, makes a cool banner for the thread.

•It's rad

5. Lacuna posts.

•Lacuna is an Admin Assistant who has been with the site since 2011.
•The post informs us that communication with the admins is difficult not just for users, but also for others. She later implies that this is an issue for other mods as well.
•This post raises general goodwill towards the mods,which is only correct because they are all lovely and awesome people. However, strong concerns are raised about the poor communication even between an admin assistant and the admins.
•The consensus is that the issue is the perceived lack of communication between the admins and others, both for suggestions as well as in general.
•popping star, a General Helper and member since 2015 also hops on the thread to give their support.

6. Nick posts.

•Nick is an Admin who has been with the site since its founding. He is responsible for all technical aspects of site operations.
•The post addresses a concern previously raised about the lack of response to rule-breaking content, as well as seeming double standards for discriminatory versus artistic rule-breaking content.
•This post is widely seen as missing the point of the thread, and refusing to acknowledge the deeper issue at play: the lack of communication between staff and others. It is argued that Nick's post proves the point of the thread.
•There is a kerfluffle about to what extent Nick, or the other admins, should be called out, and whether or not the CS community is secretly a bag of snakes. At this point the thread becomes a bit of a train wreck. For the sake of the thread civility should be retained at all times, even when you're frustrated.

7. Nick posts II (electric boogaloo).

•Nick makes a new post apologising and stating that he wanted to make it clear why moderators cannot read every post, and how hard the mod team works to keep the site running. He also explains that summer event preparations are running full-power right now, which is why there are no new big features right now, but that he is committed to continuing to improve the site.
•This post is mostly welcomed.
•It is mentioned that the post still does not respond to the main concerns of the thread, or replace actual engagement and communication.

8. The blocking suggestion is partially implemented.

•Nick posts in another suggestion that he has made some changes to how the block function works.
•This is welcomed by many and cited as signs that steps are being taken in the right direction.
•However, the convenient timings is noted, as well as the fact that the update was not widely communicated, only posted in the respective thread. This is a recurring issue.
•EDIT: Nick has since then posted an announcement about the update.

boo
2. By themes
boo
1. Communication

•Current communication from the admins to the players is insufficient. See: the whole thread.
•More, and better, communication by the admins is needed (See: x, x, x, many others).
•Players need to be able to communicate with admins and have their voices heard. (See for help tickets: x, x, x [other thread]; for suggestion forum: x, x, x).

2. Site rules

•The site rules are unclear and hard to find. (See: x, x, x).
•The site rules are inconsistently enforced. (See: x, x).

3. Updates

•The site needs more updates. (See: x, x, x, x, many more).
•Updates are not clearly communicated. (See: dedicated suggestion, x)

4. Sell the site

•Arguments in favour of selling or passing on the site if the current admins have lost interest: x, x, x
•Arguments against selling or passing on the site: x, x, x

boo
3. In summary
boo
This thread isn't about selling the site. Not really. Instead, it's about expressing the frustrations that so many users have felt and stated over the past years, which have been ignored by the admins. It's about the lack of engagement with the suggestions forum. It's about the lack of new updates. It's about the confusing and sometimes inconsistent set of rules no one is quite sure how to deal with. It's about the fact that these issues have been brought to the admin's attention time, and time, and time again, and nothing has changed.

Admins, read the thread. Talk to your team. Talk to us. Make a change.

(And if you can't? If your lives have moved on to bigger and brighter things, and CS is no longer a priority? That's fine! I'm happy for you, and I wish you all the best of everything the world has to offer. You've made my, and so many others' childhoods better and brighter. But do us this courtesy - give or sell CS to someone who can put in the time and effort, and who can make these changes. Chicken Smoothie deserves that much.)

Appendix A: Every single concrete suggestion mentioned in the thread
boo
Here for your convenience! Just, y'know. In case someone wanted a comprehensive list of ideas that they could review with their team or ask for further player input on. For that completely hypothetical scenario.

I only included suggestions that directly relate to the issue of the main post, so nothing about oekaki or the forums, sorry! I suggest making another post in the forum for those.

•Sell the site, or hand it down to willing staff x
•Hiring new and/or more staff x x x x + more
•Rank up staff more often x
•Hire more coders dedicated suggestion + many posts in this thread
•Clarify the rules, esp. with regard to links x
•Create a forum space specifically for all rules x
•Listen and respond to suggestions x x
•Create a dedicated team for the suggestions forum x
•Create a dedicated thread for updates x x please do this i beg you i have used the search function so much over the past few days trying to find examples of updates, please just post them all in a central place, plea-
•...Or otherwise notify users of updates x
•Give general helpers a more prominent role x
•Increase moderation and decrease help ticket response times x x
•communication. communication, communication, communication. Improve it. See: the thread.

coming soon! i'm going to eat a sandwich first. for now, the general suggestion meta thread is over here.
thank you for the kind words everyone <3

[fika.]

tailish you have summed that up beautifully. and i hope to make a deeper post in a minute if i can get my hands on a lptop

[ahirked]

I agree - thank you Tailish, your posts have been invaluable here, and I really appreciate this summary (with the added jokes aa)!
I am also pleased to see that we have admin discussion occurring here, and support from moderators as well. whilst this thread has had instances of complaints, it seems that overall we are gearing towards a unified agreement that communication/updates are key.

[Ippolit]

Also this is a random thought and I apologise if it's not as relevant to the topic as I think it is but...
I do feel that one of the reasons the site is feeling stale are the fact that new pets are so undervalued.
We get a *lot* of new content if you think about it, and it's all beautiful art, but it's all seen as 'monthlies' or worse: 'event rares' (I bet the very rare space event rat is way harder to find than a lot of 09 rares but it's newish and a rat so nobody cares).
This makes it feel like we're being tossed crumbs every month while actually they are very beautiful works of art, just as worthy of appreciation as the old ones. So people show up, adopt the new pets, know they aren't 'valuable' so either swap around until they've completed the collection or just wait until the new month and repeat.

Idk how we can drum up excitement for the new pets, because they truly are wonderful, and maybe this post doesn't make as much sense as I think it does but... People aren't really looking at their pets as pets anymore, it's new collections. I think adding some *really* rare new outcomes can help, like the August PPS and stuff did, idk?

[- Alice -]

Thank you so much for making such a well written and amusing post Tailish ♡ it was evidence driven and well thought out! And i feel a bit honoured to have my post in there ♡

[SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT POINT BUT STILL RELEVENT?] I also wanted to point out that although consultancy on chicken smoothie is pretty common I'm sure older users will agree that sometimes events can be a bit repetitive. Many are just hunting for banners. The summer event is the only really interactive event and I think that if it was possible that maybe a shift on how events are thought out might be a good idea?

I struggle to remain interested on events like Easter and Halloween. The pets sure are amazing as many are on cs but due to the lack of interactivity they can seem a bit sameish after 4+ years of the same cycle

[cαtαstrσphe]

Also this is a random thought and I apologise if it's not as relevant to the topic as I think it is but...
I do feel that one of the reasons the site is feeling stale are the fact that new pets are so undervalued.
We get a *lot* of new content if you think about it, and it's all beautiful art, but it's all seen as 'monthlies' or worse: 'event rares' (I bet the very rare space event rat is way harder to find than a lot of 09 rares but it's newish and a rat so nobody cares).
This makes it feel like we're being tossed crumbs every month while actually they are very beautiful works of art, just as worthy of appreciation as the old ones. So people show up, adopt the new pets, know they aren't 'valuable' so either swap around until they've completed the collection or just wait until the new month and repeat.

Idk how we can drum up excitement for the new pets, because they truly are wonderful, and maybe this post doesn't make as much sense as I think it does but... People aren't really looking at their pets as pets anymore, it's new collections. I think adding some *really* rare new outcomes can help, like the August PPS and stuff did, idk?

that was more the work of the select few who controlled the rares list and pet worth threads, the idea that a 2010 uncommon = 2011 rare is nonsense, but it's been used for so long that it's just a commonly accepted scam. That's why newer pets are often disregarded so quickly, so I'm afraid that isn't something for the staff to fix but us.

people are always looking for the next big thing, the august PPS was catastrophic to the economy when it was released because of it's "demand" and caused a lot of tension and anger, I fear another like it won't be released to preserve any sense of peace.

Thank you so much for making such a well written and amusing post Tailish ♡ it was evidence driven and well thought out!

[SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT POINT BUT STILL RELEVENT?] I also wanted to point out that although consultancy on chicken smoothie is pretty common I'm sure older users will agree that sometimes events can be a bit repetitive. Many are just hunting for banners. The summer event is the only really interactive event and I think that if it was possible that maybe a shift on how events are thought out might be a good idea?

I struggle to remain interested on events like Easter and Halloween. The pets sure are amazing as many are on cs but due to the lack of interactivity they can seem a bit sameish after 4+ years of the same cycle

to follow up on this and a suggestion someone made a few pages ago; if CS hosted a monthly banner collecting event to trade in for store items like FR does, that'd be great! It'd also address the issue of the item store as well, those items are not very popular because a few are too boring and have been here since 2010 and 2009. If we did a monthly trade in event like on FR, not only would we see an increase of activity but it'd allow item artists and enthusiasts something to do as well instead of pets all the time, and it'd make items valuable in a a sense because they'd not be available forever.

[Ippolit]

that was more the work of the select few who controlled the rares list and pet worth threads, the idea that a 2010 uncommon = 2011 rare is nonsense, but it's been used for so long that it's just a commonly accepted scam. That's why newer pets are often disregarded so quickly, so I'm afraid that isn't something for the staff to fix but us.

people are always looking for the next big thing, the august PPS was catastrophic to the economy when it was released because of it's "demand" and caused a lot of tension and anger, I fear another like it won't be released to preserve any sense of peace.

Ah damn... I see it yes. Yeah I do agree that this is an issue for us as a community but I believe we can pitch in ourselves to help save the site too. I believe that aside from the lack of quality of life updates that we ourselves have made the trading game stale!
Also thank you for the information on the August PPS, I wasn't there at the time so I do understand why they didn't repeat that.
The rarity list is a good way to start, and perhaps if more and more people agree with me (fun fact I was defending the older years being worth more thing just a week or less ago! But after a few quantitive experiments it seemed not to make much of a difference at all)
Maybe this is getting off topic, but since the people here all care for the future of the site, perhaps we can't start a 'dates don't matter that much' campaign, I know I'm going to be adding it to my trade rules now

I think I'll make a seperate thread for this though

Edit: I made a thread and put it here!

[Crimson_Raven]

Support <3
It's losing it's spark the events are lacking too
Some life needs breathing back into cs somehow.

[Lufi]

I'm supporting this too!
Thank you a lot for respond Nick! This give us a little hope, that something start to happening. ^^