Doing something about Ninjaing/Scamming. [Poll Added!]

[triceratops.]

support. i do believe that there will be users that will try and abuse the system, though.
ive experienced being scammed/ninjad on cs, and other games.
i always remember being told "it's just pixels." yeah...pixels i actually worked for to earn.
the FTT may not always be helpful either. sometimes users go weeks without responses because their question gets lost in the forum, and people may not know the answer(s). values of pets kind of varies based on everyone's own opinion, but there is still a bit of a "set" value. for example, the eat me/drink me dogs tend to be worth around 6 or 7 nons. though some may not see them as worth that much, and are only willing to pay maybe 5 nons, and dont see the value to be that high. so values are really kinda subjective. i hope that made sense sobs

Questions getting lost in the FTT is definitely the other major issue with linking the thread. A lot of the time lower-value trades can get lost due to not containing easy ‘set’ values for people to quote, or not having much (or any) past trade data to back up any quoted value, or serve as basis for an evaluation.

oh my god THIS. ive had trades get lost in the thread a lot and im left with my trade rotting, the other person waiting, and no clear answer. i mainly use the cs discord for advice now. but i personally feel as if some people put their personal opinion about whether a trade is fair or not fair rather than an actual answer. of course it may not be intentional, but it kinda makes me struggle to grasp values and what not.

[far]

-snip-

Yes.

i hope im not intruding on your convo? idk sobs
but i feel like staff currently do a really good job. they communicate with us, accept constructive criticism, actually take part in our community, and more. ive always gotten a response on my help tickets fairly quickly. when there is an issue, they come to help fix it. i kind of understand what you're trying to say, but simply stating "staff should do better" is kind of disrespectful.

im sensing that it's not a conversation and more an ''friendly argument'' at this point. I do agree, staff do have lives outside of CS and getting responded to fairly fast is a blessing.They have a limited amount of staff & I think theyre doing ok for managing the huge 500,000+ userbase CS has.

No disrespect and you are right of there being 500,000+ accounts but I don't feel like the active userbase is that big...
"Most users ever online was 6116 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:05 pm" (.01% of the userbase)
The last most users ever online was 4 years ago..

[raiden]

Our General Helpers are pretty well-versed in trading so I don't see the need for a staff role that focuses on it.

I do like the suggestions a few pages back about either a) implementing a staff duty or position that focuses on trades and determining if trades are "fair" or not (in regards to pets that are high in demand, rarity, age, or are otherwise "special" ie: previous "list" status, extended releases, etc., which is often where confusion comes in for most players,) or b) allowing staff to assist in general "is this fair?" questions - someone on staff said a few pages back along the lines "general helpers are great at helping determine fairness and pet values", but this option is only available to COPPA players since non-COPPA users are instead instructed to use the FTT, which has it's own issues that have already been pointed out.

Obviously, pet values are always going to be community-driven and will continue to be ever-changing. However, if scamming and uninformed trades are a common issue on the site, I think incorporating trade-based support that receives greater attention from staff (or otherwise trusted users of the site) would help mitigate that problem in the first place.

edit: punctuation issue

[Lanayru]

We have shared our criticism and feedback and keep getting overlooked. Last rule “If you feel you have been scammed CS staff can help and have the power to reverse trades if a scam is proven. Do not contact the user you traded with or post about it on the forum, just contact staff privately.”

the thing is we do this, and nothing gets fixed.

Because they are ninja trades within the context of our rules, not scams.

We do agree with making resources like the FTT more accessible and user-friendly; staff are currently discussing some ways we could do that. Unfortunately, things can seem stagnant because properly discussing everything, coming up with a solution, and then communicating that decision with the userbase can take some time.

I'd like to again bring up the possibility of trade specific mods/helpers (sorry if you've just addressed it this thread is going at light speed) - we have specific mods for Oekaki and RP so not having ones to specifically help with rarities, trade help and solving ninja/scam reports feels a bit... odd? Trading is just as central to the site as forums and such and having a few ppl keep up-to-date with the trade scene and be able to help would IMO be a big help.

[triceratops.]

I believe it's that when it comes to scamming & ninja'd trades, they cannot be reversed because it's "hard to prove" that they were scamming/ninjaing you. Seasonal had said prior that it is up to us to "do our own research prior to accepting the trade & such" but that is such a complex ideology to have on a petsite that caters to both minors & adults. There just really needs to be more rules put into place about these sort of situations.
^i cant remember who's quote sobs sorry

i guess that makes sense. but i believe cs staff/admins can see which users are adults and are minors? since we put our birthdays in? im not sure, but regardless, i feel like it's a bit complex when there are minors and adults on the site taking advantage of each other through trades. i can understand how it's hard to prove, but at the same time, i would think that a screenshot of the trade and/or messages can be sent, or the situation can be viewed by mods? im not sure, i cant code or anything like that so i really cant assume. i feel like staff has been doing fine as is, and yes, some areas can be improved, which is okay. it happens. but this whole thread is very conflicted and uh.. crazy

[nicole]

@Halsie including the posts that were removed, threads regarding rule issues tend to get very heated and accusatory towards staff. It's fine and should be encouraged to criticise and provide feedback, it is not fine to directly or indirectly attack them.

@This Is Halloween still not sure what you're suggesting. Is your suggestion just "staff should do better"?

I don’t know what you’re trying to gain here. We are addressing a problem that’s been around for far too long. Obviously we are going to be passionate about this issue because it affects a great deal of people.

Truthfully have seen zero productivity on this thread. A lot of venting, complaining, no unified decision on what to do, discussion is all over the place talking about vaguely related subjects but not towards the actual goal of a solution. The first post is a mess of text, no definite solution, no discussion on useful suggestions. I'd hoped to direct discussion towards something actually productive but it seems everyone on this thread just wants to be mad at anyone that goes against them. Will not be visiting this thread again.

I'm honestly just trying to bring to light a situation that has been affecting many people for years now, and has been gradually getting worse. If I had solutions, I would've definitely listed them but of course it's really up to staff to ultimately come up with them and see how frustrated users are from all of the experiences they've had, especially in the trading community. A lot of this venting & complaining comes from users who have been/or have seen others been scammed and to no avail been able to help them out to get their pets back & such. There have been suggestions and such, and I could add them onto the main post if my mass text is too much. As somebody who's been part of the trading community for a while, I just wanted to finally bring this out into the light and talk about it as it seems to be some sort of hush hush thing if that makes sense? Sorry my thread/suggestion wasn't all that appealing to you, and I do hope you have a nice day as I'm not going to be upset as some people may not like the way I went about this and you are right. I should have posted suggestions of my own and such, but I was too emotional writing this thread and I apologize for that. I want to start talking about this from now on with a clear straight tone, and not beat around the bush anymore. I'm really sorry.

[ford]

support

[far]

We have shared our criticism and feedback and keep getting overlooked. Last rule “If you feel you have been scammed CS staff can help and have the power to reverse trades if a scam is proven. Do not contact the user you traded with or post about it on the forum, just contact staff privately.”

the thing is we do this, and nothing gets fixed.

Because they are ninja trades within the context of our rules, not scams.

We do agree with making resources like the FTT more accessible and user-friendly; staff are currently discussing some ways we could do that. Unfortunately, things can seem stagnant because properly discussing everything, coming up with a solution, and then communicating that decision with the userbase can take some time.

I'd like to again bring up the possibility of trade specific mods/helpers (sorry if you've just addressed it thread is going at light speed) - we have specific mods for Oekaki and RP so not having ones to specifically help with rarities, trade help and solving ninja/scam reports feels a bit... odd? Trading is just as central to the site as forums and such and having a few ppl keep up-to-date with the trade scene and be able to help would IMO be a big help.

I strongly agree with this. It would help with the spread of misinformation about rarities and potential prevent inflating pet's values.

[Nicnova]

i hope im not intruding on your convo? idk sobs
but i feel like staff currently do a really good job. they communicate with us, accept constructive criticism, actually take part in our community, and more. ive always gotten a response on my help tickets fairly quickly. when there is an issue, they come to help fix it. i kind of understand what you're trying to say, but simply stating "staff should do better" is kind of disrespectful.

im sensing that it's not a conversation and more an ''friendly argument'' at this point. I do agree, staff do have lives outside of CS and getting responded to fairly fast is a blessing.They have a limited amount of staff & I think theyre doing ok for managing the huge 500,000+ userbase CS has.

No disrespect and you are right of there being 500,000+ accounts but I don't feel like the active userbase is that big...
"Most users ever online was 6116 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:05 pm" (.01% of the userbase)
The last most users ever online was 4 years ago..

It's true, the active userbase is actually quite small. There's 603 users online right now. I feel that there's a lot less than in previous years, and I feel like an issue this big with ninja trades/scamming is driving new users away. I really don't want the CS userbase to get smaller and smaller.

I have several friends who have been scammed out of their pets because they were either new or returning from a break, and all staff said was that they "should've known". There definitely needs to be a change in this regard.

[far]

It's true, the active userbase is actually quite small. There's 603 users online right now. I feel that there's a lot less than in previous years, and I feel like an issue this big with ninja trades/scamming is driving new users away. I really don't want the CS userbase to get smaller and smaller.

I have several friends who have been scammed out of their pets because they were either new or returning from a break, and all staff said was that they "should've known". There definitely needs to be a change in this regard.

This is why I don't understand staff's reluctance to fix the trading system. CS is definitely shrinking and between the inflated C$ and trading being a mine field it's not hard to see why. If trading is one the biggest parts of the game it should be fun and fair and fairly easy. In this climate for me it doesn't feel like any of those things.