WHY PEOPLE ARE QUITTING CS- A Discussion

[ghostmaker]

Hi! New member here and have been on CS since 2021 and so far with my time being here on the site has been relatively fun and somewhat of a pass time for me. Since I’m busy with other things and I only come to accept trades (if I ever get any), to participate in the events and to collect the monthly pets. Though there was two instances that I’d consider that left a bad taste in my mouth but due to certain rules and restrictions I’ll tread very lightly and won’t go into great detail so I don’t lose my account or the message gets deleted.

When I first joined I had no idea what I was doing and I was confused by the trading, but wanting to expand and try something I sent my first trade to a user and I had read their rules and they said they can trade Wishlist for Wishlist without any rares being a factor into the trading, so I sent them a trade but out of no where they said due to the rarity differences it was a “unfair” trade and that if I sent them another one I’d be blacklisted, so I held off from trading for a while until people started trading with me and started asking why I didn’t have any rules set in place. Personally for me, I feel like rarities, species etc doesn’t matter, if I have a animal you want and you wish to give me a item, pet/etc in return, I wouldn’t decline. Everyone should be allowed to trade despite the rare thing being involved, who cares about the rarity of a pet? I certainly don’t, but some people may disagree but I completely respect that 100%. It’s just a personal opinion. That’s why whenever I do trades, I’m very polite and open to everyone. And my rules are quite fair (if not, do tell me! I’m open to changes/criticism.) But yeah that’s my take with the trading system here.

Now I’ll be careful about this next one. The rules on about personal information, like age, birthdate, full names, etc. Nowdays people are getting more comfortable and want to make friends outside of CS and online games, so they’ll automatically ask for ages, names, their birthday (to send gifts etc) but yet we can’t link to any sites (Carrd for example) that have a DNI list, or with information that people should know even during the most simplistic conversations. A lot of people ask me for information for a clarification and everything, but being unable to do that made things difficult. I had my carrd linked to my profile description once but a mod (won’t disclose name/username) told me I had to remove it because I had a DNI list (which is very vital these days, I didn’t put names, just basic things I don’t want to associate with, nothing bad. Besides blacklisting is weird in the circumstances of games, personal opinion though), [removed for minor safety] (but I feel like what I do on my own time outside of the site shouldn’t be mentioned, it’s quite unfair in that regard) and my instagram having my last name in it. Correct me if wrong, but lying about your name or even your age is quite an offence and I’d rather people know my real name then call me by my usernames (though at this point, for the games, I don’t mind ofc), but I digress. I feel like we shouldn’t have to hide our true selves and what makes us uncomfy on CS, like I mentioned, when meeting new people nowdays (from my experiences) people will always ask for your age at the very least.

People can disagree (like I said before) and I’m fine with that, but I just feel that we as the players should at least have a bit more freedom to express ourselves, I understand with the kids and everything, but maybe if you’re gonna have a game with both minors and adults sharing it, least make spaces to divide the two away from each other.

That’s all I have to say, but what do you guys think?

All of the things you mentioned being blacklisted by CS/removed by mods seem perfectly reasonable to me. There is genuinely no reason why there should be links to inappropriate content anywhere on a site with thousands of minors on it, and the fact that it's even being mentioned right now is frankly baffling to me. As an adult, you should be able to understand why even the risk of exposing kids to that is enough to keep that off the site, and I don't see why being asked to remove it is an issue. It's OUR job as adults to be consciously aware of what we might expose underage users to, and it's our responsibility to be smart enough to monitor it, instead of having to be told by mods that something isn't appropriate for the site.

I'm honestly appalled at the way some adult users in general (not targeted at the user above) are acting in regards to what content should be allowed on the site. CS has never been intended for adults & the fact that so many users are pushing for certain guidelines that would put minors at risk is alarming. Adult users should be mature enough to understand that we have never been the target audience on CS.

[twilispark]

Here's me daydreaming, but... I remember back in 2010/2011 that CS manned booths at cosplay/furry/anime conventions. It was super cool and they sold CS merch and fun jazz. It marketed to the very people that would be interested in CS in the first place. I wish that never stopped. Getting to meet cs staff in real life and meet CS users in real life in a safe setting sounds so fun. I would do anything to go to a cs booth and get a sunback plushy </3

I like this idea, and I agree that they really should do stuff like this again

oh heck yeah. imagine cs advertising again at family friend cons with a "cozy/tight knit, community & art based pet collecting website!" pitch. kids who fit the website demographic + adults with a desire to have a fun outlet would RUN over here ,,,,

[barbwirebrat]

-snip-

All of the things you mentioned being blacklisted by CS/removed by mods seem perfectly reasonable to me. There is genuinely no reason why there should be links to inappropriate content anywhere on a site with thousands of minors on it, and the fact that it's even being mentioned right now is frankly baffling to me. As an adult, you should be able to understand why even the risk of exposing kids to that is enough to keep that off the site, and I don't see why being asked to remove it is an issue. It's OUR job as adults to be consciously aware of what we might expose underage users to, and it's our responsibility to be smart enough to monitor it, instead of having to be told by mods that something isn't appropriate for the site.

I'm honestly appalled at the way some adult users in general (not targeted at the user above) are acting in regards to what content should be allowed on the site. CS has never been intended for adults & the fact that so many users are pushing for certain guidelines that would put minors at risk is alarming. Adult users should be mature enough to understand that we have never been the target audience on CS.

100% and im really glad someone said this!!!!

[rabidcoyote]

The CS cake contest was so fun looking back and I wish it had another run, or that there were more contest like this one with physical CS-themed prizes to win!

[lyney]

i absolutely love the idea of the return of con appearances from cs staff, but the main problem i'm thinking of is:

who would run it?

tess doesn't seem active on her own game much anymore and seems to be focusing more on real life things. fortunately nick is more reachable, but he also seems to be more focused on irl things.

would any of the admins or admin assistants be willing to take on this mantle? because i think it's a great idea and could help with the re-opening of cs mall, i just dont know how we'd do it.

[pompompurin.]

The CS cake contest was so fun looking back and I wish it had another run, or that there were more contest like this one with physical CS-themed prizes to win!

sorry to derail the discussion slightly but i recently stumbled across the cs cake contest and i think it's one of the cutest things ever, so creative and wholesome :]

[Celozon]

If I may pivot to a different topic for a bit I want to kind of resurface what was mentioned briefly 10+ pages ago: CS as a site doesn't really have any good avenues for casual chatter at the moment which makes it harder to engage with the actual community. I personally don't RP or partake in closed species and while I like to post in the event threads every now and then there's no... "casual chitchat" thread. I understand part of this is inherently unavoidable just due to the way forums are, but I think allowing some lighter, more casual general talk -style threads would potentially help retain more active forum users.

I feel it's partially why Discord appeals to so many users - there they don't have to worry about whether their posts have enough substance to contribute because the conversation is much more casual and less confined to a specific topic. I know staff has expressed disinterest at an official Discord server or other chatrooms due to moderating issues, so maybe more casual chatter threads could be a good compromise? :]

I am a bit curious on what type of threads exactly you are wanting to see? Just a thread where you can post literally anything would very very quickly dissolve into spam which is why we don't allow typical 'general chat' threads. But if you want to like, talk about something specific there are usually threads for this. Like if you wanted to post about how you had a bad day or share pictures of your pet cause they were being cute, what music you are listening to, a game you are enjoying etc. there are threads for that.

I guess the way I see it is that a thread that allows anything just turns into spam but there is plenty of room to talk about those individual things on their own threads, assuming they are appropriate for CS.

while i don’t necessarily agree with the way staff handles things sometimes, this conversation is steering from productive to pettiness. there’s no reason to have an “i hate cs” stamp in your signature, this is a really strange and fruitless argument that won’t do anything for fixing the fundamentals of the site.

I think it's more that it ties into being silenced. It builds off of threads being locked and stuff being deleted. If you remove any negativity or critique people are going to take notice. I don't think it's actually about "i hate cs!" sticker; rather the principle of not being able to express yourself in how you want and convey your frustrations. Locking threads shuts down talking. Putting something in your signature to show that frustration because it is YOUR signature makes sense.

I DON'T THINK THEY ACTUALLY HATE CS AND I THINK IT'S BEING TAKEN TOO LITERALLY

We generally are only going to lock a thread if it is becoming truly unproductive, turns into just ranting rather than discussion, is constantly off-topic, or otherwise is breaking the rules. That isn't an attempt to silence the userbase as it seems to be interpreted. In most cases its fine to start a new thread on the same topic or the thread owner can request it be unlocked as long as the rules are being followed this time.

I also personally wouldn't consider an 'I hate cs stamp' to be 'expressing yourself'. Perhaps in a basic sense it is, but clearly the purpose is to show contempt for the site and its unreasonable to expect people not to take something like that literally. Its also important to note that saying something on a thread is a bit different than having a gittergraphic stamp in your sig saying it.

[♥Princess of Lions♥]

I would like to say a couple of things about the fear of staff issue that seems to be a big point of contention here.

I actually think an underlying issue beyond whether staff are perceived as rude or blunt is not knowing how close you are to a ban. I’ve seen some staff comment about warnings not having a big impact, but if players can’t tell how close they are to a ban, then receiving a warning can feel very scary, and as if you’re on thin ice about to be banned if you make another mistake. Plus, it’s not clear what differentiates more or less “serious/severe” rule breaking. I think this underlying fear could be what predisposes players to perceive staff language as harsh, intimidating, threatening, etc. because it could seem their “CS livelihood” is under threat.

Maybe I’m the only one who has had this issue, and maybe things are different now, but in the past I have had horrible interactions with CS staff that has made me fear and avoid them and keep all my chatter off site. Several years ago when I was very little, I had a different account on CS that was perma banned for breaking a rule that was unwritten/interpreted a specific way by staff different than how I interpreted it. I also happen to know that staff do treat people differently for whatever reason, because there is another user who had the same exact thing happen to them, and they are not banned.

To be clear and transparent, I’ll go into detail.

I loved CS and was inviting my friends to join and play with me. One of my friends did not like the website, so they quit and sent me all the (common and basically worthless) pets and items to me in a gift. Accepting that gift spelled out my doom, because three months later, two days after I purchased $60 USD worth of C$, I was perma banned out of nowhere for cheating. I emailed staff to dispute the ban. I explained I was not cheating, the account that sent me items was not mine, I offered for my friend to go in a Skype call with CS staff to prove their existence, I offered to have the trade reversed, and I offered to have all the pets and items I got deleted. CS staff replied with a message that was something like “since the account only benefitted you, we consider it cheating and are keeping you banned. You can make a new account though.” Cool, thanks for destroying years worth of progression over an unwritten interpretation of a rule that you don’t enforce equally for all people… (sorry for the salt, I don’t think I will ever come to terms with my ban)

I made this new account some time later. I tried to stay off CS because if I could be banned once for something I never meant to do, I had no assurance I couldn’t prevent it from happening again. But my friends convinced me to come back, so I made this account, and I primarily stick to offsite trading and communicate almost exclusively through the user owned CS discord because frankly I feel like that is much safer for me. I avoid staff at all costs with the hopes that it will keep me safer. Even just typing this out I feel really scared because this account I have now has come farther than my other one ever did, but since other people have spoken up and are still here, I’m sticking my neck out for this.

Somewhat unrelated but still relevant, I have autism, so the way I see things and how I respond to them have that factored in.

[LiaTsu]

i absolutely love the idea of the return of con appearances from cs staff, but the main problem i'm thinking of is:

who would run it?

tess doesn't seem active on her own game much anymore and seems to be focusing more on real life things. fortunately nick is more reachable, but he also seems to be more focused on irl things.

would any of the admins or admin assistants be willing to take on this mantle? because i think it's a great idea and could help with the re-opening of cs mall, i just dont know how we'd do it.

Honestly, for con work that could make everyone happy, outside "staff" could be hired (or volunteered however cs would still have to pay for the table for the staff to be at) to ensure appearances at multiple cons! I have done con work multiple times and for one would be extremely happy to take care of a cs table in my local con scene to sell cs merch

[ShadowKatto]

I would like to say a couple of things about the fear of staff issue that seems to be a big point of contention here.

I actually think an underlying issue beyond whether staff are perceived as rude or blunt is not knowing how close you are to a ban. I’ve seen some staff comment about warnings not having a big impact, but if players can’t tell how close they are to a ban, then receiving a warning can feel very scary, and as if you’re on thin ice about to be banned if you make another mistake. Plus, it’s not clear what differentiates more or less “serious/severe” rule breaking. I think this underlying fear could be what predisposes players to perceive staff language as harsh, intimidating, threatening, etc. because it could seem their “CS livelihood” is under threat.

Maybe I’m the only one who has had this issue, and maybe things are different now, but in the past I have had horrible interactions with CS staff that has made me fear and avoid them and keep all my chatter off site. Several years ago when I was very little, I had a different account on CS that was perma banned for breaking a rule that was unwritten/interpreted a specific way by staff different than how I interpreted it. I also happen to know that staff do treat people differently for whatever reason, because there is another user who had the same exact thing happen to them, and they are not banned.

To be clear and transparent, I’ll go into detail.

I loved CS and was inviting my friends to join and play with me. One of my friends did not like the website, so they quit and sent me all the (common and basically worthless) pets and items to me in a gift. Accepting that gift spelled out my doom, because three months later, two days after I purchased $60 USD worth of C$, I was perma banned out of nowhere for cheating. I emailed staff to dispute the ban. I explained I was not cheating, the account that sent me items was not mine, I offered for my friend to go in a Skype call with CS staff to prove their existence, I offered to have the trade reversed, and I offered to have all the pets and items I got deleted. CS staff replied with a message that was something like “since the account only benefitted you, we consider it cheating and are keeping you banned. You can make a new account though.” Cool, thanks for destroying years worth of progression over an unwritten interpretation of a rule that you don’t enforce equally for all people… (sorry for the salt, I don’t think I will ever come to terms with my ban)

I made this new account some time later. I tried to stay off CS because if I could be banned once for something I never meant to do, I had no assurance I couldn’t prevent it from happening again. But my friends convinced me to come back, so I made this account, and I primarily stick to offsite trading and communicate almost exclusively through the user owned CS discord because frankly I feel like that is much safer for me. I avoid staff at all costs with the hopes that it will keep me safer. Even just typing this out I feel really scared because this account I have now has come farther than my other one ever did, but since other people have spoken up and are still here, I’m sticking my neck out for this.

Somewhat unrelated but still relevant, I have autism, so the way I see things and how I respond to them have that factored in.

That sounds absolutely horrible.