WHY PEOPLE ARE QUITTING CS- A Discussion

[Lokirin]

-snip-
Which staff positions are actually paid, and which are unpaid volunteer? Cause thats going to answer a lot as for the inconsistancy with mod posts

not sure if this has been answered before, but I'd also like to know, if someone could comment? As far as I'm aware, its all volunteer work?

All staff positions are volunteer positions.

Thanks for the clarification. That's kind of the feeling I was getting reading back through things. For most customer facing jobs I've seen where there's SOPs and the like there's a script thats followed. This feels more like everyone's on their own just doing their best

[LittleMaple]

-snip-


Hey!! Im not trying to be rude- but could anyone who has had a blunt/rude message from mods post them for clarification? Im just curious as to what was being said exactly! Obviously take out any sensitive info (names, dates, places, etc) but i think that could help make things more clear! I understand it is likely that users no longer have the message but i just wanted to shoot my shot lol


This was MANY many years ago, so I definitely don't have the message anymore... mind you, I definitely broke the rules and needed to be reprimanded for it, I won't deny that at all - but the accompanying message felt personal in a way I still remember to this day. Like Celozon said, I think a degree of professionalism is expected of moderators (or, administrators/admin assistants) when correcting behavior. I don't want to incorrectly paraphrase because I don't remember the exact wording and I don't want to accidentally get something glaringly wrong, but part of the message after the "business" part of the matter (you broke rule xyz) certainly mentioned something about "my time", as in, how I as a user choose to spend my time online, and how this staff member disapproved of it. I was very much shocked at the time, and it still feels unprofessional to me even now -- it was NOT a "copy paste" type message like you typically receive from moderators, so it felt very much personal to me. I have had many other experiences with staff members in regards to answering questions about rules and correcting my behavior that did not feel as personal as this particular message did that day.

-snip-

That's unfortunate, sorry about that!! I appreciate you not risking making an incorrect paraphrase too <3 its odd that it was so different from the typical messafe... im unsure what would cause that!! If anyone knows why please lmk!!
(Also sorry this was so late got busy)

[darkspawn]

Staff(ish) opinion on coders: Nick is a site owner. If he wants more coders that is within his power.

Re: limited store items -- this was a user suggestion we implemented as a response to the C$ inflation discussion.

Honestly, while all the suggestions that would require a coder are fun to discuss, it might be good to turn the discussion to what users can do. If you want a better site guide or trading rarity list that is something you can work on, especially because as regular users that is something you have a better perspective on than mods, in my view. If you want to revitalize the roleplay boards, start some RPs. If you want new users to come to the site, invite some from another site or discord you're on and offer them mentorship if you're able, or just friendship. If you want to have a guild of people who collect dog lineart pets, start one in the clubs board. It can be cathartic to express yourself on a thread like this, and it is helpful to have all the user suggestions organized, but that is not your only power.

While I appreciate Lacuna’s optimism in the community this post is very concerning to me. To start this confirms that all site decisions are made solely by Nick and Tess and quite frankly the community never sees any responses or activity from these two. We can keep echoing that “Nick and Tess have their own lives” but they are responsible for running this site that many people have spent real money on. Is it not reasonable for people to ask for more? If you look at any true “video game” you will notice that it is constantly updating to become more enjoyable for the players. While yes this is a “forum-based” and forum-based games are not popular anymore I believe that it is still interesting and fun for new users.

Yet, they don’t stick around because there isn’t much to do! The only time of year ChickenSmoothie revives is during the summer event, halloween, and Christmas and then it dies again. So clearly the attraction is the game itself not the forums. I don’t believe that by making clubs and being active in the forums people with stick around. Discord has grown enough to where people roleplay and make clubs on there instead.

(This part isn’t necessarily a counter discussion to this post i just want to add) I keep seeing people say that the users are responsible for keeping people engaged, fixing the economy, etc. But I think that is an unreasonable ask. I joined the site in 2014 and got my first UR in 2018?? I believe. Now in 2023 I still have only one OMGSR. At this point should I hand out my high value pets to new users (that i spent 9 years grinding for) so that we may “fix the economy”? I know that there ARE some users who store away tons of high values but i still think its unreasonable to say “stop being greedy” even though they probably spent just as much money/time collecting those pets. Its not fair to ask the userbase to forget about all the time they put into this and spread the wealth. That is not our responsibility.

Once again I’m not trying to be harsh in my wording. I just feel like this response is very dismissive of the community concerns (you have probably addressed the community in another post but I did not read all of them tbh). To me this reads like “Nick can do that if he wants (he probably won’t). Y’alls ideas are cool (they’ll never implement them) try to make the game more fun for yourself”. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate all of the staff input I’ve been seeing.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I strongly agree that bluntness and professionalism should not be the same thing. Even just adding some simple words/phrases like 'unfortunately', 'however', 'please', 'in the future', 'reminder', etc, etc and having a softened closing statement such as 'hope this helps', 'take care', 'please reach out if you have any questions', so on and so forth would go a long way. Furthermore, unlike emoticons, these are all things that are seen and used in professional settings (you should always sign off a professional email, so why not a C$ warning PM?)

The reality of the situation is that just about all of us do use phrases like these for every warning. Language might get more disciplinary in cases where users are purposefully repeatedly doing things that are more serious, but for practically every scenario being genuinely discussed here this is precisely the language we use. It's difficult to have a useful response to these suggestions because it's already the standard for us.

That is true, just about all of the staff are really nice and do phrase things in a way that is clear to understand! But the staff who do not unfortunately leave an impression. Also, receiving a private message is more intimidating for users, so extra consideration should be used when crafting that warning.
Also, even using infalia's suggestion, saying: "Hello, in the future, do not do xyz. Take care." can come oft as cold, especially when you consider that you are dealing primarily with school kids. Getting in trouble with an authority figure is one of the most stressful things they have to deal with and that is exactly what receiving a warning message can feel like.

[Celozon]

Just to add in general, I personally don't think I would ever say things like 'have a nice day' after a warning. Ah its just not something that comes naturally to me and, personally, would seem fake and almost feels like it would be more of a slap in the face to give someone a warning but '<3 <3 have a nice day!!'. But as said, social anxiety here, I never really caught on the normal social 'politeness' so maybe thats a just a me problem. I've worked in customer service for a number of years and having to say things like 'have a nice day' probably feels fake by extension of being forced to end every customer interaction with it.

As I have also worked in customer service for years, I understand that common nicities like "have a nice day" become scripted rather than sincere, and that outside of the workplace you wouldn't want to say that.
However, regardless of whether or not it is a volunteer position, this site is also your workplace, and on it you are in a position of authority over registered users, and how you speak to them matters.
Saying you would never genuinely wish someone a nice day with a warning is not encouraging. I hate to ask people to step out of their comfort zone, but as this is your job, I think you have a duty to listen to the users and adjust accordingly, even if it isn't how you would choose to relay the information to them. You say warnings are not serious to staff, but the members of the site do not feel that way when they receive one, and by asking the staff to use softer language to relay that I do not think they are asking too much.
If you cannot bring yourself to wish someone a nice day with a message, then choose one that does come from the heart. "I hope you enjoy your time here on CS!" or something so users don't feel as alienated or downtrodden.
It's okay if you don't understand or agree, but if users see that you're trying to, I think it would mean a lot.

My point here is that just my own personal experience is that if I were to be using that sort of phrase it wouldn't be genuine. Some users are saying they don't like the often scripted sounding warnings and PMs and others want us to use niceties like this regardless every single time. I'm just inputting my own personal opinion on that. I did not grow up with 'have a nice day' ever being used in a genuine manner so due to my own upbringing I have a hard time using that in a genuine way because, to me personally, it always sounds fake. I was just sharing my personal experience, it doesn't mean I don't care about users or don't want them to have a good day, I just don't express it through those words. I generally like to end my messages with something like 'if you have any questions or concerns or need clarification on a rule please contact us through help ticket and we would be happy to assist you' etc. I prefer using something like this to help soften the end of the message and also let the user know what other actions they can take if they want to so they don't feel like they have no recourse if they don't agree with a warning/pm. 'Have a nice day' probably sounds nicer though.

I'm also not saying niceties should never be used but I do think there are certain times and places they would detract from the statement and shouldn't be used in 100% of cases. Of course if it was decided by admins they should always be used than I absolutely would regardless of my own personal opinions and feelings on it. I don't think asking staff to use softer language is asking too much, as mentioned in my original post I strongly believe a separate suggestion thread would better encourage change and a more concise discussion on this front. Its tough for us to take in user's opinions on this when its scattered around a 100+ page topic that some of us don't have time to read in its entirely.

I strongly agree that bluntness and professionalism should not be the same thing. Even just adding some simple words/phrases like 'unfortunately', 'however', 'please', 'in the future', 'reminder', etc, etc and having a softened closing statement such as 'hope this helps', 'take care', 'please reach out if you have any questions', so on and so forth would go a long way. Furthermore, unlike emoticons, these are all things that are seen and used in professional settings (you should always sign off a professional email, so why not a C$ warning PM?)

The reality of the situation is that just about all of us do use phrases like these for every warning. Language might get more disciplinary in cases where users are purposefully repeatedly doing things that are more serious, but for practically every scenario being genuinely discussed here this is precisely the language we use. It's difficult to have a useful response to these suggestions because it's already the standard for us.

This is exactly the case, I use most of these phrases very often when sending out warnings and pms.

[Fierce Wings]

-snip-

As I have also worked in customer service for years, I understand that common nicities like "have a nice day" become scripted rather than sincere, and that outside of the workplace you wouldn't want to say that.
However, regardless of whether or not it is a volunteer position, this site is also your workplace, and on it you are in a position of authority over registered users, and how you speak to them matters.
Saying you would never genuinely wish someone a nice day with a warning is not encouraging. I hate to ask people to step out of their comfort zone, but as this is your job, I think you have a duty to listen to the users and adjust accordingly, even if it isn't how you would choose to relay the information to them. You say warnings are not serious to staff, but the members of the site do not feel that way when they receive one, and by asking the staff to use softer language to relay that I do not think they are asking too much.
If you cannot bring yourself to wish someone a nice day with a message, then choose one that does come from the heart. "I hope you enjoy your time here on CS!" or something so users don't feel as alienated or downtrodden.
It's okay if you don't understand or agree, but if users see that you're trying to, I think it would mean a lot.

to say that saying “have a nice day” feels like a slap in the face is a very…strange way to view things aha, i 100% agree with everything ziggy has said!!

I agree with this. A lot of users here are neurodivergent, like myself, as others have pointed out already. I, personally, find it very difficult to tell whether or not someone is coming off as rude or blunt. I take things that people say way too seriously and I always feel like I'm under attack whenever I get a warning pm.

-snip-

Someone said 'walking on eggshells' a few posts earlier and that is EXACTLY how I felt on this site for many, many years as an active user. It was walking on eggshells because of how strict the rules are. I am not saying that the rules need to be made less strict, I understand why they are there and for most of them don't disagree at all. But if you are going to have strict rules on a children's site, then having a gentler hand about rule breaks invites just straight up a better atmosphere than the firm hand, which creates the 'walking on eggshells'.

Also this right here. All the time I've been on CS I have been so deathly afraid of getting warnings from staff because it always just comes off hostile. Every time I get a normal pm from another user I get SO stressed out and I panic and immediately think, "What have I done this time?"

I've gotten warnings for things I absolutely deserved before in the past, I admit. But I have also gotten warnings for minor things that weren't even problematic. This one time I got in trouble for saying something along the lines of, "I ship Monster Kid and Frisk from Undertale. I think they'd be a cute couple.", and how it was inappropriate to view minors, fictional or not, in that kind of way. I did NOT mean it in a sexual way at all. It was entirely innocent. Yet I still got a strike for it. That particular warning just came off as, "I'm getting onto you because I can.", not, "Because it's wrong."

It's not too much to ask to be a bit more gentle with warning messages. Now I get it if it's a repeated offense but for the most part the things we get warnings for are accidental. I've gotten warnings for putting my age in my signature and I understand that not being okay. But sometimes people genuinely either don't know or forget. I'm so use to sites that don't care about you telling your age that sometimes I forget it's not okay to do here. It's not me deliberately ignoring or breaking the rules.

[barbwirebrat]

warnings ive got where people went digging through my stuff. if i get muted tell @diruse i love him 🫡 (this is NOT about being blunt or rude, just showing how much my stuff has been dug through, even when not directly linked)


Hey there,
Regarding the following link in your signature:
-snip-

Please remove the mention of your TH username from your listography as your TH contains your age. Please either remove your TH username, remove your age from your TH or remove your listography link. Thanks!




Hey there,
You were contacted recently to remove your listography link or remove the following from it:
-snip-

Please make sure to fix your signature or the link will be removed for you. Do not ignore staff instruction.


on the next one i understand Why i was being warned BUT its still strange they decided to dig through all of my characters images, esp when again, my TH wasn’t directly linked.


While your age was part of the issue with your TH, the following is not appropriate to share here:
-snip- - shirt has inappropriate abbreviation
-snip- - gore
-snip- - crotch appears to have pink/fleshy tone
-snip- - swearing

If you fix these characters by removing this content then your TH is fine to share on CS. Otherwise you'll have to remove your TH mention from your listography.


ive also been warned for mentioning the name of a game w bad content in it. not images, not videos, not direct links. just the name. in my interests section. which i think is a bit far. it’s okay for bigger games w bad content to be mentioned, but if it’s a less popular game it’s not allowed.
also this one where they claimed i was bullying someone when i was just bidding on a small auction 😭😭


The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.
This warning is regarding the following trade:
-snip

Any bullying or harassment of members is not tolerated on Chicken Smoothie. Making your intent clear by posting offsite that you had send this specific pet as a way to mock/bully another player is completely unacceptable. If you do not like the auction, you do not have to bid and should block users you do not want to interact with or see posts from. If you have a problem with another user or feel they have broken the rules you should send a report to staff.

it’s really disappointing to see my friend isn’t the only one who’s had the exact same issues. also “do not ignore staff instruction” is kind of terrifying lol, this really does seem like an authority issue.

[cats135]

Staff(ish) opinion on coders: Nick is a site owner. If he wants more coders that is within his power.

Re: limited store items -- this was a user suggestion we implemented as a response to the C$ inflation discussion.

Honestly, while all the suggestions that would require a coder are fun to discuss, it might be good to turn the discussion to what users can do. If you want a better site guide or trading rarity list that is something you can work on, especially because as regular users that is something you have a better perspective on than mods, in my view. If you want to revitalize the roleplay boards, start some RPs. If you want new users to come to the site, invite some from another site or discord you're on and offer them mentorship if you're able, or just friendship. If you want to have a guild of people who collect dog lineart pets, start one in the clubs board. It can be cathartic to express yourself on a thread like this, and it is helpful to have all the user suggestions organized, but that is not your only power.

While I appreciate Lacuna’s optimism in the community this post is very concerning to me. To start this confirms that all site decisions are made solely by Nick and Tess and quite frankly the community never sees any responses or activity from these two. We can keep echoing that “Nick and Tess have their own lives” but they are responsible for running this site that many people have spent real money on. Is it not reasonable for people to ask for more? If you look at any true “video game” you will notice that it is constantly updating to become more enjoyable for the players. While yes this is a “forum-based” and forum-based games are not popular anymore I believe that it is still interesting and fun for new users.

~snip~

(This part isn’t necessarily a counter discussion to this post i just want to add) I keep seeing people say that the users are responsible for keeping people engaged, fixing the economy, etc. But I think that is an unreasonable ask. I joined the site in 2014 and got my first UR in 2018?? I believe. Now in 2023 I still have only one OMGSR. At this point should I hand out my high value pets to new users (that i spent 9 years grinding for) so that we may “fix the economy”? I know that there ARE some users who store away tons of high values but i still think its unreasonable to say “stop being greedy” even though they probably spent just as much money/time collecting those pets. Its not fair to ask the userbase to forget about all the time they put into this and spread the wealth. That is not our responsibility.

Once again I’m not trying to be harsh in my wording. I just feel like this response is very dismissive of the community concerns (you have probably addressed the community in another post but I did not read all of them tbh). To me this reads like “Nick can do that if he wants (he probably won’t). Y’alls ideas are cool (they’ll never implement them) try to make the game more fun for yourself”. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate all of the staff input I’ve been seeing.

As for any game, users have things *users* can do to make the game more enjoyable for themselves and others! Take a game like Fnaf, users can make content, art and communities, discussions, memes, ect, and thats fun!

But *playing* the game is fun too, but what can the average player do about glitchy game breaking bugs, quirks, or assets that make the game unfun? They can't do anything, *that* is up to developers, and in this sites case, developers and mods.

Yes users can do a lot to help this site! But developers need to do something as well, its a balance and its a teamwork. Ideas need to be shared and heard, bounced around, polls made, communities united, ect.

Saying "The mods need to fix this site!" or "The users need to fix this site!" are statements that won't ever work alone. *Both* parties need to work *together* for a place like this to thrive. So, in my opinion, the best way to keep this site growing is just...collaboration between *everyone*, and not set the responsibility on one group's shoulders.

[Simon]

Hi I wanted to jump in and clarify that the universal stance for staff PMs is that tone should be professional and to the point. Sending PMs to users and saying "you broke x rule" isn't inherently rude. When someone is breaking a rule we have to let them know in a clear and concise manner.

I empathize with why it could be upsetting, but a message resulting from a rule being broken will not contain language used with friends such as tone indicators and smiley faces - I promise you that warnings/PMs are never meant as an attack. As always if you feel like a staff member has crossed a line into being rude (bullying/name calling/targeting/harassment/etc.) please send a ticket to admin level and I can review the situation (I have communicated in very rare cases when a tone wasn't appropriate and do take this seriously)

[Lex.]

Just to add in general, I personally don't think I would ever say things like 'have a nice day' after a warning. Ah its just not something that comes naturally to me and, personally, would seem fake and almost feels like it would be more of a slap in the face to give someone a warning but '<3 <3 have a nice day!!'. But as said, social anxiety here, I never really caught on the normal social 'politeness' so maybe thats a just a me problem. I've worked in customer service for a number of years and having to say things like 'have a nice day' probably feels fake by extension of being forced to end every customer interaction with it.

As I have also worked in customer service for years, I understand that common nicities like "have a nice day" become scripted rather than sincere, and that outside of the workplace you wouldn't want to say that.
However, regardless of whether or not it is a volunteer position, this site is also your workplace, and on it you are in a position of authority over registered users, and how you speak to them matters.
Saying you would never genuinely wish someone a nice day with a warning is not encouraging. I hate to ask people to step out of their comfort zone, but as this is your job, I think you have a duty to listen to the users and adjust accordingly, even if it isn't how you would choose to relay the information to them. You say warnings are not serious to staff, but the members of the site do not feel that way when they receive one, and by asking the staff to use softer language to relay that I do not think they are asking too much.
If you cannot bring yourself to wish someone a nice day with a message, then choose one that does come from the heart. "I hope you enjoy your time here on CS!" or something so users don't feel as alienated or downtrodden.
It's okay if you don't understand or agree, but if users see that you're trying to, I think it would mean a lot.

to say that saying “have a nice day” feels like a slap in the face is a very…strange way to view things aha, i 100% agree with everything ziggy has said!!

I also agree! This is super well said.

@wheatleys "do not ignore staff instruction" would've made me cry, I often leave PMS on read unintentionally, as I forget the PM system exists most of the time. If the player forgets or isn't online to make the change, why not just have a staff member edit out 1 thing from your profile?? If it's really a danger to children anyway..

And for Simon, we know that being professional isn't rude. This may be a kids site but not all of us are children. People have given examples of what we as a community mean when we say something is rude.
There is a difference when staff treat something with respect vs. contempt so I just want to make sure all of our experiences aren't generalized.