WHY PEOPLE ARE QUITTING CS- A Discussion

[appaloosa816]

I have summoned the courage to post a controversial opinion on this forum.

I strongly think that feelings do matter greatly, however the sensitivity of feelings have grown to a crazy level to the point people have to walk on eggshells with anything they want to share. things are taken way too personally and becomes offensive so quickly.(not all the time, just on some occasions. in some cases things like that are justified) perception is reality. impact over intention. for example, a warning is not intended to be sweet and accommodate others need for reassurance or anything. it is meant to educate and warn that what happed was against the rules so it does not happen again. it is a disciplinary message without intent to negatively impact users. however it seems that it does because it is direct and unapologetically blunt and seemingly unforgiving. But you have admins stating their intent, their reasons, and meaning behind these warnings, messages, and dialect. So now it is up to us to accept the place it is coming from as they have told us the purpose.

When I was a new user i got those warning messages and i got sick to my stomach thinking I was in trouble. So I understand where this idea is coming from. I posted a topic under the wrong category due to ignorance. guess what, I educated myself quickly to respect the platform I am given the opportunity to stay on. Granted I know there are other stories that implement admins in a harsher light and there is room for improvement on their behalf. So that does not mean rudeness from admins should be accepted of course or anyone else. understanding can go a long way! I am tone sensitive so I know how text can come off. I personally try to make my messages overly polite/nice/sweet/etc however I dont expect others to do the same you know. because that may not be their style. if they were intentionally being rude, well odds are I wont interact with them again. it does not affect my life how they react/respond

Anyway to sum up, I just think that we all need to be aware of how we interact with others and allow room for calmer problem solving. my experiences have been quite good but others have different stories and I hope they get better. I wish yall enough<3

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hi I wanted to jump in and clarify that the universal stance for staff PMs is that tone should be professional and to the point. Sending PMs to users and saying "you broke x rule" isn't inherently rude. When someone is breaking a rule we have to let them know in a clear and concise manner.

I empathize with why it could be upsetting, but a message resulting from a rule being broken will not contain language used with friends such as tone indicators and smiley faces - I promise you that warnings/PMs are never meant as an attack. As always if you feel like a staff member has crossed a line into being rude (bullying/name calling/targeting/harassment/etc.) please send a ticket to admin level and I can review the situation (I have communicated in very rare cases when a tone wasn't appropriate and do take this seriously)

If the way the staff communicates is causing this much controversy and widespread upstet with the userbase, then it may be time to re-evaluate that stance.

[marley&me]

Hi I wanted to jump in and clarify that the universal stance for staff PMs is that tone should be professional and to the point. Sending PMs to users and saying "you broke x rule" isn't inherently rude. When someone is breaking a rule we have to let them know in a clear and concise manner.

I empathize with why it could be upsetting, but a message resulting from a rule being broken will not contain language used with friends such as tone indicators and smiley faces - I promise you that warnings/PMs are never meant as an attack. As always if you feel like a staff member has crossed a line into being rude (bullying/name calling/targeting/harassment/etc.) please send a ticket to admin level and I can review the situation (I have communicated in very rare cases when a tone wasn't appropriate and do take this seriously)

i agree with this. when you break a rule, it’s not supposed to be fun. you’re in trouble — whether you meant to do something or not. now, that doesn’t mean that because you’re trouble, people get to be rude and scare you away, but you DO need to be deterred from the action that was taken and learn to not repeat said action. i personally always err on the side of adding fluff and niceties, but that’s just me, and i don’t think everyone should have to do that.

[darkspawn]

Staff(ish) opinion on coders: Nick is a site owner. If he wants more coders that is within his power.

Re: limited store items -- this was a user suggestion we implemented as a response to the C$ inflation discussion.

Honestly, while all the suggestions that would require a coder are fun to discuss, it might be good to turn the discussion to what users can do. If you want a better site guide or trading rarity list that is something you can work on, especially because as regular users that is something you have a better perspective on than mods, in my view. If you want to revitalize the roleplay boards, start some RPs. If you want new users to come to the site, invite some from another site or discord you're on and offer them mentorship if you're able, or just friendship. If you want to have a guild of people who collect dog lineart pets, start one in the clubs board. It can be cathartic to express yourself on a thread like this, and it is helpful to have all the user suggestions organized, but that is not your only power.

While I appreciate Lacuna’s optimism in the community this post is very concerning to me. To start this confirms that all site decisions are made solely by Nick and Tess and quite frankly the community never sees any responses or activity from these two. We can keep echoing that “Nick and Tess have their own lives” but they are responsible for running this site that many people have spent real money on. Is it not reasonable for people to ask for more? If you look at any true “video game” you will notice that it is constantly updating to become more enjoyable for the players. While yes this is a “forum-based” and forum-based games are not popular anymore I believe that it is still interesting and fun for new users.

~snip~

(This part isn’t necessarily a counter discussion to this post i just want to add) I keep seeing people say that the users are responsible for keeping people engaged, fixing the economy, etc. But I think that is an unreasonable ask. I joined the site in 2014 and got my first UR in 2018?? I believe. Now in 2023 I still have only one OMGSR. At this point should I hand out my high value pets to new users (that i spent 9 years grinding for) so that we may “fix the economy”? I know that there ARE some users who store away tons of high values but i still think its unreasonable to say “stop being greedy” even though they probably spent just as much money/time collecting those pets. Its not fair to ask the userbase to forget about all the time they put into this and spread the wealth. That is not our responsibility.

Once again I’m not trying to be harsh in my wording. I just feel like this response is very dismissive of the community concerns (you have probably addressed the community in another post but I did not read all of them tbh). To me this reads like “Nick can do that if he wants (he probably won’t). Y’alls ideas are cool (they’ll never implement them) try to make the game more fun for yourself”. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate all of the staff input I’ve been seeing.

As for any game, users have things *users* can do to make the game more enjoyable for themselves and others! Take a game like Fnaf, users can make content, art and communities, discussions, memes, ect, and thats fun!

But *playing* the game is fun too, but what can the average player do about glitchy game breaking bugs, quirks, or assets that make the game unfun? They can't do anything, *that* is up to developers, and in this sites case, developers and mods.

Yes users can do a lot to help this site! But developers need to do something as well, its a balance and its a teamwork. Ideas need to be shared and heard, bounced around, polls made, communities united, ect.

Saying "The mods need to fix this site!" or "The users need to fix this site!" are statements that won't ever work alone. *Both* parties need to work *together* for a place like this to thrive. So, in my opinion, the best way to keep this site growing is just...collaboration between *everyone*, and not set the responsibility on one group's shoulders.

I don’t disagree with you but the problem is that users have been doing their part for years. Oekaki is active, we have a thriving adoptables board, the trading community is fun and competitive, and users are always offering excellent ways to improve the sites retention and make it generally more fun. However its seemingly one sided as most of our suggestions are not implemented and if they are being implemented it is surely taking a VERY long time and that suggestions list has been building for a while. We could say “well there is only one coder!” And who is responsible for that? Not us, the coder and site owner are. So now its up to them to actually follow up with the ideas or hire someone who has the time to. This relationship has been feeing one sided for a while 😕

[Lex.]

I have summoned the courage to post a controversial opinion on this forum.

I strongly think that feelings do matter greatly, however the sensitivity of feelings have grown to a crazy level to the point people have to walk on eggshells with anything they want to share. things are taken way too personally and becomes offensive so quickly.(not all the time, just on some occasions. in some cases things like that are justified) perception is reality. impact over intention. for example, a warning is not intended to be sweet and accommodate others need for reassurance or anything. it is meant to educate and warn that what happed was against the rules so it does not happen again. it is a disciplinary message without intent to negatively impact users. however it seems that it does because it is direct and unapologetically blunt and seemingly unforgiving. But you have admins stating their intent, their reasons, and meaning behind these warnings, messages, and dialect. So now it is up to us to accept the place it is coming from as they have told us the purpose.

When I was a new user i got those warning messages and i got sick to my stomach thinking I was in trouble. So I understand where this idea is coming from. I posted a topic under the wrong category due to ignorance. guess what, I educated myself quickly to respect the platform I am given the opportunity to stay on. Granted I know there are other stories that implement admins in a harsher light and there is room for improvement on their behalf. So that does not mean rudeness from admins should be accepted of course or anyone else. understanding can go a long way! I am tone sensitive so I know how text can come off. I personally try to make my messages overly polite/nice/sweet/etc however I dont expect others to do the same you know. because that may not be their style. if they were intentionally being rude, well odds are I wont interact with them again. it does not affect my life how they react/respond

Anyway to sum up, I just think that we all need to be aware of how we interact with others and allow room for calmer problem solving. my experiences have been quite good but others have different stories and I hope they get better. I wish yall enough<3

The only thing is, you can't just not interact with staff. The site doesn't even let you block staff, yet staff can block you.
Why not make the warning system automated? Takes out the middle man, plus no one has to feel like they're being attacked or have an experience with a staff member they don't like [or vice versa!]

Even if it's supposed to be "educating". 0 people are debating the fact that you "didn't break the rules"
Yes. A rule is broken. But that person should still be treated with respect. People make mistakes. If everytime you made a mistake in real life, would it be encouraging to get a letter in the mail saying "Hey. You broke the rules. Take this out, do not do it again."?
No.
EVEN if it's automated, a nice message makes all the difference. If people keep breaking the rule, suspension or ban. That's the entire reason suspensions/bans exist anyway.

Keeps rule followers happy and rule breakers off the site so that they don't create problems.

Also, I agree with darkspawn above. It's not like we can take over the site and code what we want, it's all up to tess and nick.

[Simon]

And for Simon, we know that being professional isn't rude. This may be a kids site but not all of us are children. People have given examples of what we as a community mean when we say something is rude.
There is a difference when staff treat something with respect vs. contempt so I just want to make sure all of our experiences aren't generalized.



I'd just caution everyone to consider bias when reading some of the examples/third party accounts/etc. that are being posted as they are lacking context.

It's likely we will have to be slightly stern or more "official" in tone when we are being ignored, yelled at, etc. - What i'm trying to get at is being staff on a big website like CS is hard and situations are often complex and very context dependent - yet we can't really "defend" ourselves bc we need to uphold user confidentiality.

[FERALMACHINE]

This topic kind of went off the rails, guys. Let’s try to focus on our suggestions instead of switching to entirely about how you think tones work possibly? I get that some things may sound rude, but this topic was originally about suggestions on how to revive CS.

[Malleus]

This may be a wild take and probably won't make sense, but as an oldish soul on this website, having been here since 2012, this is something I was thinking about.

CS, over the years, took MANY stances to 'remove negativity' from it's forums. It killed the trade rant thread. It killed the 'things that annoy you' thread. It constantly has killed off places where the users could expressive negative opinions about things. Even if those opinions were following all CS rules by not naming names. Mods really locked down on 'bullying and harassment' and while I fully support that decision, it has exasperated the issue I have with the mods.

Mods have the ability to come off as blunt or rude. They are in the position of power to do so.

But that ability has over time been removed from the users.

Which is why I think the mods sounding 'rude or blunt' is more of an issue, or something users notice more, because the mods sometimes speak in a way that users frankly aren't allowed to.

I didn't notice the mod bluntness NEARLY as much when I first joined, but in that 2015-2017 era where all those threads started getting deleted and CS cracked down harder on its rules and what was allowed? BOY did I notice it then.

Again, wild take and probably nonsensical but I miss being able to be unhappy or angry about things as long as I was following the rules.

[Celozon]

I don’t disagree with you but the problem is that users have been doing their part for years. Oekaki is active, we have a thriving adoptables board, the trading community is fun and competitive, and users are always offering excellent ways to improve the sites retention and make it generally more fun. However its seemingly one sided as most of our suggestions are not implemented and if they are being implemented it is surely taking a VERY long time and that suggestions list has been building for a while. We could say “well there is only one coder!” And who is responsible for that? Not us, the coder and site owner are. So now its up to them to actually follow up with the ideas or hire someone who has the time to. This relationship has been feeing one sided for a while 😕

I just wanted to pop in and say I think Lacuna's point here was that yes some things would have to be done by staff or admins, but other people are suggesting are things user's could do themselves and is not something that needs staff to make it happen.

[far]

This topic kind of went off the rails, guys. Let’s try to focus on our suggestions instead of switching to entirely about how you think tones work possibly? I get that some things may sound rude, but this topic was originally about suggestions on how to revive CS.

I agree! While I think mod language is important, I don't think it's what is going to help CS grow.