Dog Owner Chat V. 5

[swift;]

Forgot to add these pictures too!

[tenor]

captain (male, neutered, 9 months) (1/4 belgian malinois, 1/4 german shepherd, 1/4 australian shepherd, 1/4 american shepherd, estimated) on the left, goose (male, neutered, 4 years) (american staffordshire terrior + super mutt) on the right.
over the past few months, goose has been in big boy training mode. he went away for most of january, february, and got back home march 15! at the beginning of the year, he couldn't even see another dog in the distance without snarling, growling, drooling, hackles raised. over the past 10 days, we've been integrating him into our little family. with a lot of bad experiences with our previous trainer, we have finally found a behaviorist we (hope) we can trust. she met goose yesterday for a couple hours for a consultation and intake, and i got this un-muzzled pic of goose and captain <3 our boys. im so, so, so proud of goose for all of the hard work he's put in <3 trying to transition him out of a shock collar, as that was his primary form of training at his previous trainer, and many have been advising against it with his anxiety and reactiveness. i love my boys <3


and since we're sharing pics of doggies in the car, here's captain in the car! he's a very sleepy boy on car rides longer than 10 minutes i bring him practically everywhere with me anytime i know i'm going somewhere he can go too

[shadow~wolf]

youre being such a good fur-mom!! good luck with goose's training!

[kitty teeth]

@alfiq @kivr & fireflii

Thank you for the book rec!! I will look into it on Amazon.

I have noticed Prim dogs seems to have that aloof characteristic often. My Xolo's breeding was specifically for temperament and it shows! She will sleep in stranger's arms, lol. However, her fear period is pretty on par with her breed, but I have plenty of experience under my belt for it. We're doing AKC S.T.A.R puppy classes currently and the only things we're struggling with is "sit" and "down" lol. She was not a fan of her rump being touched, but we're getting there!

[swift;]

@tenor

Omg they’re so cute! And I get that, Dexter falls asleep too unless there’s a window down then his hound senses are like “OH! SMELLY SMELLS!” 😂❤️

[Larkspur1678]

the trainer promised that he would be socialized and muzzle-trained since nearing the end, he was still aggressive towards newcomers, especially at home.
after 3 months of him being gone to training, where we were unable to visit him because the trainer said it would make him depressed and distracted, he is back home.

I’m just a regular dog owner so anyone correct me if I’m wrong here, but promising that a dog who has been unsocialised for 4 years will be fixed in 3 months and not allowing the owners to visit sounds like a huge red flag? Surely you would want to work WITH the owners to help the dog in various situations, as it’s also about training them to handle the dog, no?

I’m sure other people here have helpful advice to give, that just threw me off a little.
All that I can add is that you say it’s only been a week that you’ve had him back; I assume the trainer gave you things to do to continue working on him? Like a person, it takes continuous work to ease anxiety - and he’s just had a change of environment.
And I know the following will sound ridiculous, but try to calm yourself down around Goose, especially in situations where he’s already anxious like being around people, as he’ll be picking up on your anxiety too. I know it’s incredibly hard to not be anxious, but you don’t want him feeding off your anxiety too.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds incredibly stressful and I hope it gets better for you & Goose. Don’t blame yourself for your parents not socialising him.

thank you for your words and advice. we are trying to have patience, since it has only been a week, and we are still working with him with aggression and such with his shock collar, but i am antsy about using it, so it has been primarily my husband taking up the shock collar business. the trainer upon returning him did not really give any other advice besides using the shock collar at a medium level anytime he does anything we don't want him doing.

the lady we sent him to had an abundance of high reviews, she's a local behaviorist and trainer, but we have seen many red flags upon his return. we were referred to her by a friend, so we thought we could trust her immediately, and she had a lot of success stories, but there have been a lot of red flags. for one, she didn't let us visit goose, and she didn't allow video calls or to show us where he was staying. we got weekly photos when we asked her for them, but it only showed him on walks in the woods. another red flag was that he came back with lots of sores on his joints on his legs, and upon examination from the vet, it seems that he had been laying on concrete for probably the entire extent of his stay. he was also 10 pounds lighter than when we sent him, deeming underweight. (avg 55lb the past few years, give or take 5lb, he came back 44lb). another red flag was that she didn't give us any other form of helping him. she did not give us any tips or advice that did not include the shock collar. she gave us a muzzle and said to keep it on at all times that he may be anxious (bringing him out or having guests over), and to shock him if he acted up.

we don't know how to feel about our chosen trainer. i am a naturally anxious person, so i could be overthinking it, but everyone else i've told about what happened has said that's not natural. but all of her reviews are top-tier, which confuses me. goose may have just been a special case with her, but it definitely concerns me.

thank you again for your kind words. i am just a dog owner as well, and i just want what's best for my boy, while also protecting my family and future family.

Little late, but going from 55 lbs to 44 lbs in 3 months is a big red flag for me, especially when couple with the sores, shock collar, and not letting you see what training was done or where. I would take him to the vet just to make sure everything is fine and to rule out any medical causes for aggression, and they may have some recommendations for training/behavior. Dog trainers are unfortunately not regulated as there is no training standard and a lot of dog owners don't know what training should look like. Reviews don't mean a ton when you don't know what you're reviewing. None of this is to say that you did wrong or should've looked more, you saw what looks like a reputable business and got a personal recommendation, many would do the same. Where I am atleast some local shelters have behavior classes, this may be something to look into in your area and if you don't vibe with it you can just not go to any more classes. I know this is a difficult situation and whatever you chose to do going forward I just want to say there is no wrong answer, you are not failing Goose if you can't handle a fearful/aggressive dog, especially wanting children.

[tenor]

-snip-

Little late, but going from 55 lbs to 44 lbs in 3 months is a big red flag for me, especially when couple with the sores, shock collar, and not letting you see what training was done or where. I would take him to the vet just to make sure everything is fine and to rule out any medical causes for aggression, and they may have some recommendations for training/behavior. Dog trainers are unfortunately not regulated as there is no training standard and a lot of dog owners don't know what training should look like. Reviews don't mean a ton when you don't know what you're reviewing. None of this is to say that you did wrong or should've looked more, you saw what looks like a reputable business and got a personal recommendation, many would do the same. Where I am atleast some local shelters have behavior classes, this may be something to look into in your area and if you don't vibe with it you can just not go to any more classes. I know this is a difficult situation and whatever you chose to do going forward I just want to say there is no wrong answer, you are not failing Goose if you can't handle a fearful/aggressive dog, especially wanting children.

thank you for this! i brought goose to the vet i think the day of or the day before posting about this whole situation, because i was anxious as well on what all could have gone wrong at the trainer. they recommended us to a more well-known training and behaviorist company around our area, and we met with a trainer from there yesterday. we're slowly setting up to get him into long-term training and rehabilitation. i have definitely spoken to my family and friends who recommended our previous trainer and told them not to tell anyone else about her due to goose's situation upon returning.
i will not be sending him off to board and train ever again -- i'll be doing strictly 1-on-1 and group courses for our babies.
thank you again for your response and advice and support.

[ᴍᴀᴏᴄɪғᴇʀ]

@tenor
So glad you and Goose have found a new behaviourist, I hope it all goes well for the both of you! Him and Captain are both very handsome boys.
(And, possibly leave a review for that last trainer detailing your experience, if you can - to warn others)

[Lobb]

the trainer promised that he would be socialized and muzzle-trained since nearing the end, he was still aggressive towards newcomers, especially at home.
after 3 months of him being gone to training, where we were unable to visit him because the trainer said it would make him depressed and distracted, he is back home.

I’m just a regular dog owner so anyone correct me if I’m wrong here, but promising that a dog who has been unsocialised for 4 years will be fixed in 3 months and not allowing the owners to visit sounds like a huge red flag? Surely you would want to work WITH the owners to help the dog in various situations, as it’s also about training them to handle the dog, no?

I’m sure other people here have helpful advice to give, that just threw me off a little.
All that I can add is that you say it’s only been a week that you’ve had him back; I assume the trainer gave you things to do to continue working on him? Like a person, it takes continuous work to ease anxiety - and he’s just had a change of environment.
And I know the following will sound ridiculous, but try to calm yourself down around Goose, especially in situations where he’s already anxious like being around people, as he’ll be picking up on your anxiety too. I know it’s incredibly hard to not be anxious, but you don’t want him feeding off your anxiety too.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds incredibly stressful and I hope it gets better for you & Goose. Don’t blame yourself for your parents not socialising him.

thank you for your words and advice. we are trying to have patience, since it has only been a week, and we are still working with him with aggression and such with his shock collar, but i am antsy about using it, so it has been primarily my husband taking up the shock collar business. the trainer upon returning him did not really give any other advice besides using the shock collar at a medium level anytime he does anything we don't want him doing.

the lady we sent him to had an abundance of high reviews, she's a local behaviorist and trainer, but we have seen many red flags upon his return. we were referred to her by a friend, so we thought we could trust her immediately, and she had a lot of success stories, but there have been a lot of red flags. for one, she didn't let us visit goose, and she didn't allow video calls or to show us where he was staying. we got weekly photos when we asked her for them, but it only showed him on walks in the woods. another red flag was that he came back with lots of sores on his joints on his legs, and upon examination from the vet, it seems that he had been laying on concrete for probably the entire extent of his stay. he was also 10 pounds lighter than when we sent him, deeming underweight. (avg 55lb the past few years, give or take 5lb, he came back 44lb). another red flag was that she didn't give us any other form of helping him. she did not give us any tips or advice that did not include the shock collar. she gave us a muzzle and said to keep it on at all times that he may be anxious (bringing him out or having guests over), and to shock him if he acted up.

we don't know how to feel about our chosen trainer. i am a naturally anxious person, so i could be overthinking it, but everyone else i've told about what happened has said that's not natural. but all of her reviews are top-tier, which confuses me. goose may have just been a special case with her, but it definitely concerns me.

thank you again for your kind words. i am just a dog owner as well, and i just want what's best for my boy, while also protecting my family and future family.

Please, please find someone else. EVerything mentioned here sounds incredibly sketchy. The part about using a shock collar is an especially big red flag for me, as is the way the dog is being generally treated. This isn't addressing any underlying causes for his aggression or giving him alternatives to his behaviour. It's just based on scaring him out of his unwanted behaviours, which can make him a lot worse, especially if he's had a really rough life before. (Full disclaimer, I'm of that school of thought that's against aversives, period. There's plenty of information out there as to why.)

Not to mention that things like sores on his legs and stuff like that is just NOT NORMAL. This is imperiling your dog's health, not helping him (or you). Definitely listen to your gut and drop these people stat.

EDIT: I'm not usually on CS forums but please let us know how it goes!

[tenor]

--snip--

Please, please find someone else. EVerything mentioned here sounds incredibly sketchy. The part about using a shock collar is an especially big red flag for me, as is the way the dog is being generally treated. This isn't addressing any underlying causes for his aggression or giving him alternatives to his behaviour. It's just based on scaring him out of his unwanted behaviours, which can make him a lot worse, especially if he's had a really rough life before. (Full disclaimer, I'm of that school of thought that's against aversives, period. There's plenty of information out there as to why.)

Not to mention that things like sores on his legs and stuff like that is just NOT NORMAL. This is imperiling your dog's health, not helping him (or you). Definitely listen to your gut and drop these people stat.

EDIT: I'm not usually on CS forums but please let us know how it goes!

we have found an alternate trainer! thank you for your response. we have met with this new trainer 5 times now, twice a week since i last posted. we started goose out on simple commands, mastering them. he already was pretty good at sit/shake/lay down, but we learned 'come' over the past few weeks. still working on it when he's distracted, but we see a lot of progress. we brought him out in public last weekend, and will be doing so again tomorrow. he is shaky and hesitant, but last week we just sat at a bench and anytime a person passed and he didn't bark at them or growl, we would give a treat. we're seeing a lot of progress. it's been mentally exhausting, but it's also been rewarding, seeing the progress he has made with this new trainer.