NEW THREAD PG 7

[caf.]

TRAINING TALK
A CHATROOM FOR ALL ANIMAL TRAINERS

Taught your dog to sit and roll over? Taking a horse to the Olympics? Worked with marine animals, birds, or another species? Never had an animal but like to watch animal sports? Then this thread might be a place for you. Training Talk is a place to discuss techniques with others, share unorthodox methods, and revel in your successes! Whether you're a purely positive reinforcement dog trainer, a natural horsemanship junkie, or a mixed bag of conditioning and behavior, we all can benefit from education. Learn about varying methods, incorporate positive aspects into your work, experiment, learn, and grow. You never know what you could accomplish!

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[center][b]I'd like to be added as a
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[caf.]

to start off, i'd like to pose a question: do you use more punishment or more redirection when faced with "bad" behavior?

personally, as someone working with a young and inexperienced animal, i prefer redirection. for example, my horse often sets up fits of bucking when he gets tired of working. while i could punish him for bucking in a variety of ways, i feel that it would only make him resentful and more likely to move onto another vice, or at the very least make him tense and generally unpleasant. redirection for me mainly includes applying pressure with the legs and seat whenever he starts to throw a fit and maintaining those aids until he takes a step in the direction i want him to go, thus reinforcing (negatively) putting down his hind end and moving forward calmly. in this way i put his brain on something else and asking him to use all that energy he has for bucking for something productive.
that approach comes with a few problems. for one, the bucking is often an objection to a leg aid; thus, putting more leg on often makes the behavior worse before it gets better. this wouldn't matter to me if i didn't have to factor in my own physical strength; there comes a point where i just get too fatigued to hold on and end up falling. it hasn't yet because he's a small horse and i have a solid seat, but i assume it might in the future, particularly if i'm caught off-guard.
secondly, while the redirection does use that energy for productivity, i'm not sure if he's truly getting his mind off going back to the barn or just dealing with having to work because he doesn't have much say in the matter since i refuse to acknowledge his bucking. when he acts out due to fear, redirecting often works quite well since he's no longer thinking about the scary thing in the face of whatever task i'm asking, but i feel that by asking him to work i'm making that desire to quit even greater.
he's never bucked at home so i do wonder if the 'objections' were a combination of nervousness and rebellion - if so, it would certainly explain why the punishment approach resulted in a very tense horse and the redirection approach left him a little more spirited. i'd love to hear your approaches, especially with different species!

[Winstalgia]

I'd like to be added as a
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Username:
Sahrotaar
Species:
Dogs, cats, gerbils

[caf.]

I'd like to be added as a
member!
Username:
Sahrotaar
Species:
Dogs, cats, gerbils

welcome! i'll add you to the list!

[Winstalgia]

Thank you! =3

I ride horses and my teacher occasionally teaches me groundwork sometimes, but I don't think I'd be into training horses as a career or job. O.o

[caf.]

i understand that! myself i probably wouldn't look into training as a career either, my primary interest is in research and biomedical, but i have a particular fondness for young and feral horses so i'd like to take one or two on as a hobby in the future.

[Winstalgia]

Cool. =3

As for dog's, when I had one I taught him to sit, stay, Come, Follow, Do the conga, Bring me his leash when he wanted out, Dance,
lay down, and stop, and to get out of the room when I said 'out'.

Sadly, he passed at 5 months due to a tragic accident so now I have my focus on my Grandparents almost a year old pup. They are nuts;
head over paws crazy and I just don't know how to train them. I taught them to lay down (two dogs BTW) but it's so hard. My grandparents are doing the spray bottle method and it doesn't help unless they have the bottle with them 24/7.

I mean, The dogs are only going to stop when you show the spray bottle because they want to get sprayed. But when you don't have it,
they won't listen. Honestly, I don't think A spray bottle is the right idea for these two. I don't know what is.

Any advice if you've worked with dogs?

Sorry for the mini rant...

[caf.]

i worked with dogs for a long while in the past, i could definitely offer some tips! so sorry about the loss of your dog, i know that's terribly hard. i'm glad you still have some to work with, though!

it really depends on what you define as "acting crazy" - i think the first step in any sort of training is defining the sort of behavior you're expecting. what is acceptable? what is unacceptable? what is a step in the right direction? i wouldn't expect too much too soon, since we're talking about puppies here.

i think often when people talk about animals being "crazy" they're understimulated, so you might want to find ways to get out their energy. take them on runs, take them swimming, take them to dog parks if they're well socialized, play fetch with them, buy some cheap hurdles and a tunnel and teach them agility, find something that engages their minds and their bodies. since you don't want them using all that energy in the house, you've gotta find a way for them to expel it. set animals up for success, always.

besides all that, you could use that energy to establish good habits. come when called, sit, down, stay, heel, important dog manners. if you make it rewarding and fun, they'll want to play your game. generally, you want to always be positive so that they want to stay with you, and you want to quit just a bit before they get tired, so that they're left wanting more and excited for your next session. my advice is to keep your sessions really short and do a lot of them throughout the day so they don't have to maintain a long attention span.

you could also implement a little negative punishment with them. if they're too rough when you're interacting with them, just get up and walk away and ignore them. in this sense you're saying, "i'm not going to play with you if you're going to be mean." it may take awhile, but eventually they'll learn how to play nice.

also, make sure good behavior is heavily rewarded. if they're being calm, pet them and offer them treats if possible (low-value treats like kibble are best to prevent them getting overexcited). the spray bottle will work, but, of course, you can't have it on hand at all times. so you need to make sure you're giving them positive outlets so they understand what is asked to them. when you punish them, you're telling them what not to do, which is only valuable if they understand what is acceptable. so make sure you (and your grandparents) establish firm boundaries so the dogs start to recognize what they can and cannot do.

[Winstalgia]

on mobile

The male is eager to learn and the first to learn stuff but his sister is the crazier one. She likes to jump on people, bite, and chase. Her attention span is also the shortest I have seen for any dog yet. She's a poodle, they both are.

I know they love agility, so I have been saving for a course, actually.
They love the dog park.

But if anything new like a scent or a person or even someone gets up they begin to get hyper again.
And they are large.

If they don't get trained now, it'll be pretty hard after their first birthday.

Thanks for the feedback and tips, too.

[caf.]

(sorry about the late response!)

i would agree, when they're this young you've gotta find ways to train them manners while they're still young. really, with young and low-attention dogs, you've gotta make training a bit of a game, kinda the same way you would with a young kid. make it fun, make it positive, and make sure you're using low-value treats and not getting overexcited so you can set them up for calm success.

this is all my take on dog training, feel free to take what i say with a grain of salt as it has been several years since i've done intensive canine work.