Snakes

[taurus ;]

There shouldn't be issues with hobbyists keeping their animals in tubs either. Snakes are a hobby for me and I keep mine in tubs because that is what they are happy and thrive in. They don't just have a shoebox and water bowl either. Yes, they do 'lie around' all day, considering that ball pythons are nocturnal, so actually sleeping. But at night they are very active.
Also, ball pythons are the limit to what I would feel safe housing in tubs, anything bigger has to be in an enclosure with a lock and key, no exceptions.

@blueh
That makes me mad too, people breeding snake morphs that have known issues, in particular the spider gene. I will absolutely never own a spider gene snake and deal with the wobble. A champagne however....trying not to give in, its one of my favorite morphs and I love anything with champagne in it, I'm not buying one though.

[kivr & fireflii]

@halogen
I agree with everything you said (in the first post above) except the hoarder thing. I think that's definitely up for debate as to whether or not breeders (we're talking about the 100s+ snakes, too small tubs, only newspaper/substrate + water bowl) are considered hoarders. If you go by their definition of "perfect sheds, eats, breeds" then yeah, they're not hoarders and they care about their animals' livelihoods... I guess. But you can't tell me breeders who do things like this or this (ignoring one of the snakes since one is there for breeding) aren't hoarders. Breeders who do that are a step back for animal welfare IMO. I did see in your later post you mentioned you'd only feel comfortable with bps in tub/rack system, and I agree with that as well. And I'm not trying to take a dig at all breeders/hobbyists/rack system owners, etc. but... I understand that for many, breeding snakes is their only income, and they have to think about being time/effort/cost effective. But that doesn't excuse what they're doing IMO.

And I agree with what everyone said about breeding snakes with genetic, neurological issues.
-fireflii

[The Last Raven]

I personally have no stance on genetic issues as of yet. The wobbles make me sad but if you look at it closely it is no different that breeding dogs with smushed faces giving them breathing problems such as pugs or German shepherds with sloped hips causing hip dysplasia. People decide they like the look of something so they keep breeding it no matter the consequences...... you can't say one is ok and the other isn't..

[kivr & fireflii]

Very true. I just try my beat not to support breeding practices I don't agree with (although sloping topline doesn't cause hip dysplasia). ;)
-fireflii

[taurus ;]

Very true. I just try my beat not to support breeding practices I don't agree with (although sloping topline doesn't cause hip dysplasia).
-fireflii

Yup, GSD sloping topline and hip displaysia is caused by rear severe angulation/overangulation^^

A result of selective breeding that causes dogs to not be able to breathe, eat, even breed properly and causes dogs to have to have surgery to open their airways vs. a genetic disorder that makes a snake wobble BUT the snake can eat, breed and thrive just like a 'normal' snake cannot be compared, not at all.

[The Last Raven]

Selective breeding would be what causes them to have difficulties but that would still be genetics. Also not all snakes with a wobble still function properly. I have known several spiders to have difficulties eating. So no I would not consider that "normal". Not to mention desert ghosts where females are infertile.

[taurus ;]

Selective breeding would be what causes them to have difficulties but that would still be genetics. Also not all snakes with a wobble still function properly. I have known several spiders to have difficulties eating. So no I would not consider that "normal". Not to mention desert ghosts where females are infertile.

My point was that dog health issues and snake health issues are two different things and that I would never compare the two.

Khaa really wants a girlfriend lol, he's soaking his cage every time I clean it, ugh!!!


Literal puddles. (no, that is not his entire tub, everything was taken out since i was cleaning it and no that is not water)

A friend of mine has a pastel pied, maybe this is my chance to prove Khaa out, since he's supposed to be 100% het. Plus he's holding his color so great, those babies would be bright and pretty !!

[Grimace]

Why is it bad at all if the females are infertile. That has absolutely no quality of life impact on the snake.

[i-m-snek]

I'm just popping in to show of my freshly shed Tali :3

[♡♡♡♡]

Im going to my states reptile/snake breeder expo next month on the 17th and I'm looking to get my first snake!
Who knows if I'll purchase one then, but I've heard its a good place to purchase snakes, as they come from quality breeders and they're often sold for lower prices at expos! Is this true?
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I'm also looking for a beginner snake and I'm soooo fascinated by ball pythons and ball python morphs.
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I'm looking for more information on them, and possibly some experiences/tips with them?
I know a lot but I would also like some stuff from people that have actually owned a bp or bp morph!