"The" Rares List Guide - Do not ask about new UR's!

[nickjr]

Rarity Changes Archive: R -> VR

Eat Me, Drink Me, and Liontails went VR in the middle of 2010 (May to July)
Two of the Seal PPSes went VR in September 2010
Red Cerberus went VR in December 2010

Raven Dog went from R to VR in October 2011
i.e. it was rare for nearly a year

I cannot find the other 2009 and 2010 store pets (including the third seal PPS...?) on that list. Three possibilities (for each of the unlisted 2009/2010 store pets):
1) they started out VR
2) they started out R and turned VR after October 2012 (highly unlikely)
3) they started out R and turned VR before October 2012 but the poster forgot to add them (kinda unlikely?)
4) my search terms suck and they're actually in that post

Man, if only people would realize that the Raven is worth a lot because of demand, not because of rarity... We're gonna be seeing a lot of other OMGSR store pets before we see the Raven turn OMGSR, if the Rarity Archives are any indication

(As for 2011 store pets: the only ones I found in that list were three of the Gryphons, who turned VR in 2012. Can't find the fourth Gryphon. So... yeah, apparently there was a time when the Raven was only R while we had VR 2011 store pets)

[SabrinaB]

I know the diffrence and I am not saying that what people do is wrong I mean, who doesn't want to get a Non for their Raven when it's placed much lower on the list.

I just try to say that the store pets on the list often get much more overpay that any other non-store pet on the list.
Last post from me before I really am spamming, which it already starts to feel like.



I think we also need to look at demand when creating the lists, but a little less than we do now. But demand will always affect things.
It's hard to say which pet is worth more without real data information, so demand will always be included, no matter how small, and I think that should be included.
But yeah, it should be based on rarity more than demand.

[Sinbreaker]

I think the idea was brought up about grouping pets. Still having tiers but have the tiers within a group. I.e. someone could say "Your pet is worth two pets from group 7 of main list" so then it's easier to come up with an idea on what two pets from that group could be used, and might be able to control demand for the average trading a bit more. Example in what I mean

Red Toxic Tier Pets
Green Toxic Tier Pets
Non balloon tier Pets

Lined Tribal Tier pets
Rainbow Mane Tier
Pink Balloon

And then someone could have a pet, per say on the Spotted Tribal Tier and when asking for a trade down someone could reply "A pet from group 6 and group 7" that way it's not so precise and leaves room for trading partners to discuss on what they are able to achieve and what they value their pets at.

I don't think the current list needs to be deconstructed completely but tweaked and some pets defiantly need to be moved or "removed", but how does this idea sound?

[Goostarion]

So progress thus far?
- Lots of discussion and no actual action.
- 4 months and 1 poll.
- We haven't moved really for 2 months.
It's abysmal really. The FTT doesn't look like it's changing users soon at all so we should really focus on getting more community imput. Suggest the rarity pnlynidea and see how it floats. Then suggest grouping and see how it floats. I don't know about you guys but this change needs to happen before new UR's are added to the list so August / September is that deadline.

Apologies for spelling mistakes, on mobile.

My general theory of the store pets right now is to keep them off the list but have a general worth allocated to them. I mean there is already a thread dictating to keep store pets separate from pets which probably won't be given an answer because it's a point that Tess has admittedly argued for years and all that is actually needed is for the community and some people at the top of that community organisation poll to go "Oh yeah we should have done this sooner, my bad."

That's pretty much it for me. It's really clean cut.Think of how the "Most valuable items on CS" list is organised but for store pets instead. Information about that store pet from what happened back in the day, when it went VR or any other associated information, and how much it is worth.

@SarinaB
I do apologize if I sound snappy as I am not exactly feeling the best IRL but going by all the problems known on CS about the list, demand is the biggest and most horrible problem there is. There have been talks since before Dec 18th over how bad demand is and why it shouldn't be on the list by literally hundreds of users across three different threads with general helpers and mods getting in on the fun too.

A list with no demand inclusion has these benefits:
- Users being free to dictate their own demand, and subsequently be called out if they are asking too much rather than that being embraced.
- Organisation of the list as a whole of rarity only is the way it's going
- People understanding rarities will make it easier. Why does one toxic pup = 4 toxic pups when they are all from the same litter and are all VR?
- Working with assistance with the FTT to cut down the demand hassling questions.
- Establishing true worth at ballpark estimates
- Assisting CS staff with answering questions and allowing the community to learn the system which was made by adults and teenagers for a kids site.
- Enforces the idea that users can dictate their own demand and not blame the list for its short comings. Takes a lot of stress off people. You see this all time if you visit the thread daily.

Pets like the Joker and BA are guilty of driving demand and leaving pets like Pink September and Fruit behind even though the joker is ultimately worth less than a set of sad grapes. It's really unorthodox. I've just read so many threads about it all and I recommend that if you are interested in learning why this is demand intake isn't a good idea I recommend reading "Understanding the list"

@Sinbreaker
I think the group idea was based on removing tiers like previously suggested, so the pets values were removed from exacts and given approximations, I don't recall some specific ways of doing it but overall what you have seems about right. Like the top value of a pet is at the top and the bottom value is at the bottom. So like for the line tribal box is worth like 28 advent or something and the bottom is worth 21 advents or something. What you value the middle pets is honestly up to you how you value them. In between said top and bottom values. So what is the rainbow mane? Probs in the middle of both so 24 advents worth

But yeah that works a ton. Support.

[Lya]

@nickjr
I really regret not following through with my first thought back when the Rarity overhaul was made. I'd originally planned to comb through the archive and post every VR+ pet, just for the record, before I read that they don't want to do that. x_x
We're lucky Nick miscounted the OMG so Rares back then or we wouldn't even know which pets started out as that after the change. ^^"

[Catheren]

I had this sudden weird idea- what if we could get the other side of demand?

People are all too happy to share the offers they've been given on their rare pets- but I don't think the community has the exposure to the true feelings of the ones PAYING that excess. Is there a way we could get that information and make THAT a thing- because I don't see how people who are paying actually feel they're getting a fair trade.

And hey- I could be wrong, in which case we may as well just consider even trying to control demand lost because if both sides really think it's fair we're just doomed.

[Solloby]

Not sure if this is helpful as not all pages load for each snapshot, but if we are missing any rarity information we could try to fill in some gaps using internet archive sites? For example here's a snapshot of Jan 09 archives in 2012: https://web.archive.org/web/20120316231 ... 9/January/

Regarding no progress being made, I thought the community had decided on a Rarity List until backtracking started to happen about 10 pages ago. I posted 5 pages ago asking for people with alternative ideas that address the primary concern raised by the poll, to post why they prefer that idea over the rarity list so we can come up with some other options and see which the community likes best. I have yet to see that happen, unless I missed something? I see no point in going to another poll unless this happens, because there are no options for people to vote for. "Do nothing" is not a valid option for a poll going forward because we already asked that in the first poll and people said they didn't like that option. It's not a poll if there's only one option.

Considering the large amount of discussion from so many people over the past 100 or so pages, I feel like if an alternative option existed it would have been talked about by now. If anyone does want to bring up an overlooked alternative then please post it as a matter of urgency. Please post what the option is, why you feel it's better than other options like the rarity list, and how it addresses the concern from the first poll (demand). There's a summary post here that may contain good ideas we have overlooked: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3285510&start=300#p104958724

[Imabox]

I've been a bit busy from my last post but I've been trying to keep up to date of the current conversation. I do feel that maybe we should try and jump back into what to do with the list as Solloby is trying to bring up.

There are several issues from the FTT, to C$, to demand/greed, but unfortunately I think we are trying to tackle too many issues at once and it's causing multiple small topics about how to handle every issue and distracting us from focusing on one. I do feel they're important topics to talk about, but I personally feel that figuring out what to do with the List should be the first and biggest thing we should talk about just so we can hopefully start actually making decisions. It also might help with figuring out what to do with the other issues as well.

**although all of this does show that there are several areas that could use some work so we should absolutely remember those for the future!

For my personal preference on the List I still feel that it should become a Rarity-Only List with the Store Pets taken off and put on their own List.

[Cellar x Elijah]

I don't chime in too often, but I do read the conversations here. I disagree on giving the Store Persian their own list, because people are just going to reference them on the Main List about what they should be worth. Old store pets are never released again, so the 2009-2010 store pets slowly get harder to find and truly do climb the rarity ladder. There weren't many people to buy them back when they released, but with the amount of members now there are a lot less to go around. I think they should probably stay on the Main List, they've definitely earned their spots there. It's still easy to see where the store pets place amongst eachother on the main list, and it's a lot more helpful the way it is now.

-Cellar

[Solloby]

If we're talking about rarity and store pets, then this may be interesting to note (Mid 2010):
https://web.archive.org/web/20100617055 ... re%20Pets/
https://web.archive.org/web/20100527021 ... re%20pets/
https://web.archive.org/web/20100727033 ... re%20pets/

Drink Me is more popular than the Eat Me, its rarity tag shows it was bought more so it's more common.
Green Liontail & Drink Me are more common than the other Liontails, Eat Me and Orange Cerby.
Eat Me is listed above the Liontails on the Rares List. In a rarity list it would be placed lower.
Green Android is slightly rarer than the other androids, seal PPS, red cerby & brown sleipnir.

My issue with keeping the store pets in the list is that their rarity changes in comparison to non-store pets, but we don't know by how much. So essentially we would have a much larger margin of error when estimating their rarities compared to other pets which we would rely on the rarity changes archive etc to determine. This is the main reason I would prefer them to be listed in a separate box.

It was posted that Tess didn't believe the store pets to be considered part of a complete collection. With no plans to rerelease the store pets in the future, and the rarest store pets starting to turn OMGSR, this may be worth noting in the updated guide, regardless of the format it takes. Due to never being rereleased, store pets behave differently to other pets in terms of rarity and demand.