*Site suggestion* Kinder staff messages

[Audrey_Bee]

Wow I guess I've been lucky so far. Mods in my experience have been kind, understanding, and helpful, even if I didn't agree with them.
But I'll add my support for change here anyway, since there seems to be enough of a pattern to warrant it.

Thank you for your support!

I quite like hearing that people have never encountered any issues! ❤️ I've had a handful of really lovely encounters with people and one mod in particular (annoyingly I can't remember their name) was very nice when reminding me of a rule, when I apologised for breaking the rule they said it was okay and everyone makes mistakes, with a little smiley face and everything. Something so simple but made it much less intimidating and unnecessarily anxiety inducing!

It's what in hoping to achieve is encounters like that being more common!

Unless it's a massive rule breaking like severe hate speech or something lol

[Falco]

As someone who works in customer service at a car dealership, I deal with having to be sternly kind constantly.

If you have the inability to be kind while relaying negative information, you don't need to mod a website. Point blank. People shouldn't feel their stomach drop when they receive a DM from a mod.

It gets to the point where I see so many poor situations with them, that I tend to avoid interaction. Which, is sad.

I haven't had many bad experiences myself, it's just that.. if there's multiple places where I see people discussing this situation, it's real and it needs to be fixed.

TY for posting. Support.

Agreeing with this!
People tend to want to follow rules more if you approach them in a kind and calm manner.
You can still be professional while being nice

[Audrey_Bee]

As someone who works in customer service at a car dealership, I deal with having to be sternly kind constantly.

If you have the inability to be kind while relaying negative information, you don't need to mod a website. Point blank. People shouldn't feel their stomach drop when they receive a DM from a mod.

It gets to the point where I see so many poor situations with them, that I tend to avoid interaction. Which, is sad.

I haven't had many bad experiences myself, it's just that.. if there's multiple places where I see people discussing this situation, it's real and it needs to be fixed.

TY for posting. Support.

This is very well put! Thank you for the support!

It's a reasoning I've been given a couple of times is that mods need to be stern and there can't be any confusion with them being nice in case it's not taken seriously. But there's so many situations where people are stern but kind and understanding, I personally find it quite easy to do! Especially if it's just the first time. Aren't we all human? Don't we all make mistakes? You never know what someone going through on that particular day and being negative may just push someone over the edge! I know it's happened to me a couple of times!

Having a more positive vibe when reminding people about rules and giving a notice about something would make such a great impact on the community ! Like you said, no one should be scared when they see a mod come into their PMs! I know my anxiety absolutely skyrockets before I even open any messages from mods !

[Celozon]

As someone who works in customer service at a car dealership, I deal with having to be sternly kind constantly.

If you have the inability to be kind while relaying negative information, you don't need to mod a website. Point blank. People shouldn't feel their stomach drop when they receive a DM from a mod.

It gets to the point where I see so many poor situations with them, that I tend to avoid interaction. Which, is sad.

I haven't had many bad experiences myself, it's just that.. if there's multiple places where I see people discussing this situation, it's real and it needs to be fixed.

TY for posting. Support.

I've worked in customer service myself, and I feel the need to point out that acting as a help desk, facilitating customer complaints, or working at a service counter, aren't really comparable to the things people are complaining about here. None of these involve telling the other person they have done something wrong and that they are not allowed to do that thing. At least in my experience (especially in something like a help desk) you are specifically supposed to avoid accusing the customer of doing anything wrong even if you know they did. Obviously there are some similarities (we do answer questions in tickets and on the forums and field complaints) but those aren't the areas that people are saying we need to be nicer in.

There is also the factor to consider that when speaking to people online, we only have text to communicate, whereas in person or on a phone, they would be getting additional cues like the tone of your voice or body language. It can be a lot easier to express in person that you are not being aggressive just by your body language, when those same words as text can be read in a negative light solely based on the person reading them. I personally try very hard to make my messages in warnings and reminders neutral toned and informative, but I know that people have read them as if I were angry or mad, even though that wasn't the case.

I do understand the comparison and there are certainly transferable skills from that kind of position, I just don't think the comparison is particularly apt in this case. If anything it would be more akin to acting as security at a public venue, just virtual.

I think it would be helpful if some of you could give examples of the kind of things you would prefer we send in messages, particularity what you think is appropriate to send in board warnings since those are intended to be more serious in nature. I personally don't have any objection to softening our messages, but I also don't think there should be a problem with sending a neutral-toned message, especially for warnings, and sending a message with too soft of a tone would serve to trivialize it.

[Audrey_Bee]

There is also the factor to consider that when speaking to people online, we only have text to communicate, whereas in person or on a phone, they would be getting additional cues like the tone of your voice or body language. It can be a lot easier to express in person that you are not being aggressive just by your body language, when those same words as text can be read in a negative light solely based on the person reading them. I personally try very hard to make my messages in warnings and reminders neutral toned and informative, but I know that people have read them as if I were angry or mad, even though that wasn't the case.

I think it would be helpful if some of you could give examples of the kind of things you would prefer we send in messages, particularity what you think is appropriate to send in board warnings

I appreciate you going more in depth and asking questions about the issue with harsher tones in messages!

I would relate it to when I'm in the fair trade thread and a particular user keeps giving false advice, clearly trying to help but just not knowing rarities yet. They mean we'll but they're not helping kind of vibe. I will always reply to put the correct information in just in case the person asking for advice sees and accepts a bad trade. I put myself in their shoes and realise they're just trying to help and I usually go in with "hi! Actually this trade is fair because *blah blah blah*, I understand you're trying to help and I think its wonderful that you want to help out, however it would be great if you could have a read over some of these links" then I'd link useful trade threads and explain how they work in a PM. I'm a people pleaser so maybe that's why I could find it easier than others to show a kinder tone when I want to!

I do understand its more difficult via messages as you don't have the social cues that our brains use to tell us what emotions a person is feeling. That's why there are a few common things people use. Not everyone, I personally experience my mother in law using absolutely ZERO of these online messaging cues and I always think she's mad LOL
But things such as emojis or a smiley face, people have mentioned some tag thing? Emotion tag? Or something? Ive never understood it and they always confuse me but i know it means people are trying haha. Or adding a couple of more human phrases that you would use in person, like a "have a nice day" at the end or hope you're having a nice day at the start, or whatever feels more natural to the mod. Maybe some more human understanding (for certain situations obviously) like "I understand you haven't broken this rule yet so this is just a friendly reminder that this rule exists so I have removed this post. Unfortunately if it does happen again, this action will be taken so we would really appreciate it if you remembered this rule in future when posting in this forum"

Or "your toyhouse account that you have shared contains some explicit art and we just want to remind you that this is a child friendly site so we can't accept any links to explicit content, this link has been removed but feel free to re-upload once all explicit content is gone. We understand that this may have been a mistake and we would appreciate it if you kept these rules in mind when posting any art or links to art, thank you!! " (I'm probably really showing how I don't deal with any form of digital art but I'm sure you understand the example!)

I agree that actual board warnings are more serious and should be dealt with as such. I think the messages should just be situational. Like how you have the warning system, you deal put punishments dependant on what the persona has done, how many warnings, how long they've had the warnings etc, just use your judgement on how severe the issue is to how severe the tone is.
But most importantly I think anything that's just a reminder, particularly if this person hasn't broken that rule before, it should be the nice tone that I put as an example.


This might be a personal opinion, but I think there's no such thing as a neutral tone in messages. Anyone who has ever said to me that they try to use a neutral tone has always sounded rude and aggressive, in my opinion

I think we all should remember that we are all talking to people. And we also need to remember thay the majority of us on here are now almost all adults. Lots of us have kids, full time jobs, a marriage partner, a house, pay bills etc. We all come on here for fun (or because we're autistic as heck and it brings us peace). No one wants to have blunt or rude messages, it costs nothing to be kinder or just sound a little nicer in a message. We're all just out here trying our best ❤️

Just as a little example as well, I know my message is getting quite long, but I got a message because I thought putting an age range was acceptable, I thought the rule was to not say your age exactly, and the message was something along the lines of "you did this, this has been removed. Do not do this again. If you do this again further action will be taken" Etc etc. And I felt so bad so I sent back a message saying I'm so sorry, honest mistake, I thought we just couldn't say exact ages I'm really sorry!" And I either had no response or it said something like "no its anything that gives away anything about your age". I remember it being fairly blunt.
This message made me feel so anxious and scared and then I was just a bit annoyed that there seemed to be a negative tone at all because it was just a mistake.

Whereas if the message had been "hi there, I removed this part of your post because it included your age range, this is against the rules so I would appreciate it if you kept this in mind when messaging the forums! I understand it may have been a mistake so just want to inform you of the rule that was broken. Have a lovely day! "
The firmness is there but it's also respectful and shows "everything all cool but pls don't do this again thannks"

Then in a response with "omg I'm so sorry I thought it was just exact age", just having "no worries! It is anything that gives away the age including age range, just to be safe! I appreciate you confirming and don't be sorry, its just to let you know!"

Then obviously if it's a second time then you'd be a bit more stern with it like "we have reminded you of this rule before and we would really appreciate it if you followed the rules and didn't post this" unless they haven't broken the rule in like 5 years then they probably just forgot haha

I hope this shows what I personally would like to see more of in a but more depth, if anyone else has any suggestions, please make them ! ❤️

Apologies for the message being so long! I hope none of it sounded like ranting too, I was just tying to give examples, but feel free to alter anything you need to 👉🏻👈🏻

[Aaron✦]

Whereas if the message had been "hi there, I removed this part of your post because it included your age range, this is against the rules so I would appreciate it if you kept this in mind when messaging the forums! I understand it may have been a mistake so just want to inform you of the rule that was broken. Have a lovely day! "
The firmness is there but it's also respectful and shows "everything all cool but pls don't do this again thannks"

While I'm all for updating our moderating messages to be a bit more modern, I personally don't think something like this example can ever be used. I feel like there's some misunderstanding about what these messages are for: while we want our users to feel comfortable, these are disciplinary messages because a rule has either not been read or has been purposefully broken. I absolutely say things like "have a lovely day!! " when I'm messaging friends. In the nicest way possible, we are not messaging users to strike up a conversation or become friends. We are letting you know you've done something wrong. If the tone of the message doesn't make that clear, then it might be the case that either a) users who have just made a mistake don't realise they're being told not to do something again, because the message does not have any sense of firmness, or b) users who are breaking rules on purpose might think "I will not bother to follow the rules because I just get a nice message."

I can see where you're coming from that the message regarding your age might be seen as blunt, but as a moderator that's sort of our job. We're letting you know that you've done something wrong, what action has been taken, and what you need to do going forward. If there's any more information we could give along with messages and warnings that would make this experience easier to understand, I think that would be a really good thing. I don't think it's really necessary for official messages to sound like chats between friends, though. I would honestly feel like I were patronising a user if I added a little smiley face after giving them a warning!

[Audrey_Bee]

While I'm all for updating our moderating messages to be a bit more modern, I personally don't think something like this example can ever be used. I feel like there's some misunderstanding about what these messages are for: while we want our users to feel comfortable, these are disciplinary messages because a rule has either not been read or has been purposefully broken. I absolutely say things like "have a lovely day!! " when I'm messaging friends. In the nicest way possible, we are not messaging users to strike up a conversation or become friends. We are letting you know you've done something wrong. If the tone of the message doesn't make that clear, then it might be the case that either a) users who have just made a mistake don't realise they're being told not to do something again, because the message does not have any sense of firmness, or b) users who are breaking rules on purpose might think "I will not bother to follow the rules because I just get a nice message."

I can see where you're coming from that the message regarding your age might be seen as blunt, but as a moderator that's sort of our job. We're letting you know that you've done something wrong, what action has been taken, and what you need to do going forward. If there's any more information we could give along with messages and warnings that would make this experience easier to understand, I think that would be a really good thing. I don't think it's really necessary for official messages to sound like chats between friends, though. I would honestly feel like I were patronising a user if I added a little smiley face after giving them a warning!

I partly understand where you're coming from, but only when it comes to repeatedly breaking the same rule or boars warnings. That's when I can kind of understand why you'd be more stern.
And maybe it's a difference for where we come from, but saying "have a lovely day" or "have a nice day" isn't striking up conversation, and actually I never use it with friends haha I see that as someone who you actually don't know and you're wishing them well as a goodbye. Which surely you want to wish the playerbase well? Maybe not if they've done something drastically wrong but the people who you'd be saying it to are either returning players or people who have forgotten or misread or just don't know certain rules, or newbies. And if anyone came onto a website and thought they'd get involved in the forums for the first time, accidentally breaks a rule and gets a seemingly passive aggressive message or a generally unwelcoming message from a mod, basically telling them off, I know I wouldn't be returning again. There's been a few times I wish I could leave the site but I love my pets far too much. It feels so unwelcoming and really quite diminishing to recieve a message that's so stern when I've just made a simple mistake.

I would disagree also with the idea that if we received a nice message politely then we wouldn't understand that were breaking a rule, I think some credit needs to be given to our community that we wouldn't read a message saying:
"hey, please make sure you're not Bumping your post too much, only bump when it's off the first page. Thank you in advance, have a lovely day!"
And go 'awww, how cute. Anyway. *bump bump bump*' lol.

I would also say that considering just how many people have posted here and who I have spoken to in the past that all agree staff messages are far too firm, it's not a small issue that a couple of people are reading messages in an incorrect term, but is an actual problem that a lot of people feel needs a change. We're not then going to break rules for the fun of it just because we finally have a message treating us like people.

As I said, I don't think these cutesy messages should be put in place everywhere. If someone is being outwardly homophobic for example, then sure, be stern! But if someone has broken a rule *once* and doesn't require a board warning and its clear they don't have a clue they're breaking rules, we feel that all that is required is a gentle reminds of the rules. Then have at it if they keep breaking them haha

We're all people, we all want to be treated as such and with respect! A lot of us respect the staff and how much they do behind the scenes and how much they keep the site safe! It should just be done with a gentler touch to keep CS feeling welcome and warm, and to not scare away the new folk 😂

[asta,]

> one of the mods sent me a message about being condescending towards other users
and in that message they called me rude and pretentious so... i'm all for this,, i don't
think people on this site above the age of eighteen need to be treated with kid-gloves
but sometimes the mods are needlessly harsh.

[Audrey_Bee]

> one of the mods sent me a message about being condescending towards other users
and in that message they called me rude and pretentious so... i'm all for this,, i don't
think people on this site above the age of eighteen need to be treated with kid-gloves
but sometimes the mods are needlessly harsh.

Yes, I agree it probably worked when most of the users were kids, but so many of us are adults returning to our old accounts. I think a lot of the rules are aimed towards kids now as well and are bordering on becoming outdated but that's probably a different issue!

Maybe if all the adults had an adult tag on our account maybe we get different messages? But I feel like that's also singling out certain people, there's no proof of us being adults and it's still unfair to talk to kids in that way as well.

[dia_dartenheit]

I would disagree also with the idea that if we received a nice message politely then we wouldn't understand that were breaking a rule, I think some credit needs to be given to our community that we wouldn't read a message saying:
"hey, please make sure you're not Bumping your post too much, only bump when it's off the first page. Thank you in advance, have a lovely day!"
And go 'awww, how cute. Anyway. *bump bump bump*' lol.

that sample message could be used as a template for communicating with users: "hey; please; thank you; have a nice day". friendly professionalism is part of a more humane approach in services these days and it hurts me that people still find it being weak.