*Site suggestion* Kinder staff messages

[Darkcloud!]

I'm kind of on the fence here. On one side, I don't think there's any issues with having a stern tone when warning someone because while it sucks to get in trouble, there's a reason someone is getting the warning in the first place. Some staff also may have issues with expressing tone due to neurodivergence or otherwise. Additionally, I see a lot of people complaining about feeling as if they're on thin ice. This is a site primarily made for family and kids, even though the userbase has evolved to be something more, I feel it should remain on the stricter side in terms of content and moderation to keep the younger userbase safe.

On the other hand, I strongly agree that CS Rules need to be far less subjective, revised, and elaborated on. As much as I don't mind, it can be a real hassle to make a help ticket every single time I'm unsure on how a rule is moderated on, which is very, very often. As far as I know, the main Code of Conduct has barely been revised at all since I've joined, and I think it's long due for an overhaul. Even if none of the rules have changed, at least further elaborating on what they mean and some examples so users don't need to hunt for a post made in 2012 where a mod elaborates in a question post.

I believe the issue with the stern tone is not that it is firm in enforcing in the rules type of stern, but that is an un-needed "You have committed a Big Wrong" stern that is being applied to all situations, even small things like new users posting in the wrong board or thread- which can scare them off from participating in the community, and doesn't take into account that the users are also from a wide background- we have users with disabilities who use screen readers, users who just got their COPPA removed- etc- There's no need to take harsh tones with users and send out messages that threaten to ban people over posting in the wrong place or not using the correct wording on trade threads.

It feels like an overreaction to something that can be corrected with something kinder and direction to the correct thread/resource. The user base shouldn't feel like their account is held hostage by staff looking for the smallest miss-step in public forums while responding flippantly to private reports of inter-user bullying and harmful remarks.

The staff can/do definitely have a script for responses, and I would like to see it adjusted to have a more understanding and kinder default responses to small infractions that don't actually hurt anyone.

I also agree with the rules update. As an example, so many of the resources for knowing where and how to post, what rules to follow for each board etc are scattered all over the place. Some threads even have specific rules that don't apply to the rest of the board they're in, but are treated with the same severity as breaking a site-wide rule. Some of the rules for the site (such as the rules on trading fair/not scamming) are so vague that it's become a ghost of a rule that haunts the trading community: "what is trading fair?" :LOL:

It would not only help the users, but help the staff in terms of being able to enforce and reference it if we had a more central and clear set of rules to abide by on CS and the various subsections on it (trading, user content- profiles & sigs, forums).

I've been on this site for years and I've never gotten a "warning", so I'm curious what that means if you want to dm me!

The only times I've gotten DMs from staff was to correct posts of mine, but it was never a full on warning as it was a simple mistake.
From what I've heard, the warnings/bans are given out when there is a real reason. ( ex; art theft, being mean/rude, harassment, guilt tripping, scamming, inappropriate behavior, etc )
But again, I've never gotten an official warning and this is only from what I've seen.

I have never gotten a DM from staff asking me to change or correct my post in a friendly manner. It has always been approached as if I was some sort of serial offender, with the post deleted as it was at the point of no longer being editable and a default copy-paste message warning me that if I did not use the right format, that I would be in Real Trouble and further action would be taken. This is also frustrating because the post would be in a fast moving trade thread with multiple other people posting similar/the same, and these warnings would come DAYS after I even made the post. There is no reason to come after a person so harshly for something that small.

[Audrey_Bee]

Support, it feels like I'm walking on eggshells everytime I post- So Everytime I say something, i fear of being warned or banned-

Yeah I always get like that too, I think we need less scaremongering and more just...kindness and understanding to a point. Its clear when things are mistakes, I think there should be levels of sterness depending on what rule has been broken and how many times.

On a side note.... I LOVE YOUR CATERPILLAR SIG so precious, very well presented!

[Falco]

I have never gotten a DM from staff asking me to change or correct my post in a friendly manner. It has always been approached as if I was some sort of serial offender, with the post deleted as it was at the point of no longer being editable and a default copy-paste message warning me that if I did not use the right format, that I would be in Real Trouble and further action would be taken. This is also frustrating because the post would be in a fast moving trade thread with multiple other people posting similar/the same, and these warnings would come DAYS after I even made the post. There is no reason to come after a person so harshly for something that small.

Thank you for clarifying! I think I understand what you mean now, and I agree.
I’ve always just assumed it was me, I have a hard time reading tones especially online so I’m relieved to see that I’m not alone.

[Celozon]

To start this off; I cannot talk about the specifics of any situation certain users have experienced, as it is confidential, and I cannot add clarification or comment on other user's specific experiences. Please also remember that this thread should be directed towards discussion on the suggestion and not just for complaining. My post is intend to be purely informational and to hopefully clear up some misconceptions and confusion on these things.

I would at least ask for clearer rules. What exactly does getting a warning mean? What exactly is off the table? How do mods act in terms of interpreting someone's words? Do warnings get removed with time (for "good" behaviour?)

Warnings are intended as just that, a warning to follow the rules. Getting a warning will result in the warning level on your account going up by 1 (your own warning level is viewable by you), the warning level will go back down on its own a few months after the warning was issued.

I want to make something clear; we do not ban people just for occasionally getting warnings. We understand that users may not be aware of a rule, forgot, or just made a mistake. We also have other options available before fully banning someone and those are generally going to be used first (ie, temp bans, post restrictions, etc). If you really are worried about your account after getting a warning, please feel free to submit a ticket and ask us about it, it is not something we are trying to hide from you to make you afraid. If you genuinely want to follow the rules than we want to help you do so, our help ticket system is always open for questions and clarification.

Obviously words and phrases can be open to interpretation, this is why, as Zeena mentioned, we often get opinions from multiple mods on whether something was appropriate or not. We do also understand there are going to be regional differences so words will sometimes have different implications to them depending on that, so even if someone doesn't intend for their words to be hurtful or insulting, if that is the result we are going to take that seriously. The primary concern is things like insults (direct or indirect) or forms of harassment. There are other things like guilt-tripping behavior, begging, and general rudeness which can vary a lot in severity as well and as such the response varies. Its not always black and white and we absolutely understand that when we are reviewing these cases.

-snip- There's no need to take harsh tones with users and send out messages that threaten to ban people over posting in the wrong place or not using the correct wording on trade threads.

It feels like an overreaction to something that can be corrected with something kinder and direction to the correct thread/resource. The user base shouldn't feel like their account is held hostage by staff looking for the smallest miss-step in public forums while responding flippantly to private reports of inter-user bullying and harmful remarks.

I also agree with the rules update. As an example, so many of the resources for knowing where and how to post, what rules to follow for each board etc are scattered all over the place. Some threads even have specific rules that don't apply to the rest of the board they're in, but are treated with the same severity as breaking a site-wide rule. Some of the rules for the site (such as the rules on trading fair/not scamming) are so vague that it's become a ghost of a rule that haunts the trading community: "what is trading fair?" :LOL:

We do not ban people just for posting in the wrong place or using wrong wording, these would be minor offenses. I am not sure where you have gotten that information, but its not anything that we do.

Our site rules were consolidated back in 2020 and have been so since then. The primary site rules are linked on the site header, and a few boards have rules specifically for that board (such as free adoptions) which are separate because they only apply to one small section of the forums (and for the most part are primarily concerned with rules on making a thread in that specific board). We do also enforce thread rules, it is expected that you will read the rules of a thread you want to post in before posting.

[Audrey_Bee]

Warnings are intended as just that, a warning to follow the rules. Getting a warning will result in the warning level on your account going up by 1 (your own warning level is viewable by you), the warning level will go back down on its own a few months after the warning was issued.

I want to make something clear; we do not ban people just for occasionally getting warnings. We understand that users may not be aware of a rule, forgot, or just made a mistake. We also have other options available before fully banning someone and those are generally going to be used first (ie, temp bans, post restrictions, etc). If you really are worried about your account after getting a warning, please feel free to submit a ticket and ask us about it, it is not something we are trying to hide from you to make you afraid. If you genuinely want to follow the rules than we want to help you do so, our help ticket system is always open for questions and clarification.

Thank you for this clarification! I think it always seems like such a big deal because of how things are worded sometimes!

I said to another mod yesterday (or the day before, I'm working night atm so all the days are smooshed into one lmao) that once I accidentally put my age or something but said it in a range like, and I'm going to use something insane so it's not realistic at all, I said something like "I'm in my 350's". But my actual age range and the response was "this is against the rules, you cannot do this. Do not do this again or we will take further action."

Just the whole "do not do this" kind of thing, I'm not a child and it feels like such a scolding sometimes lol. But it turns out I didn't even get a warning for that it was just a "by the way"

So I think this is where kinder messages for smaller issues would be more ideal, it'll be less scary and intimidating this way. It won't make people do it more because most of that stuff is purely in error anyway. I never say "ooh I won't break the rules because mods are super scary" I just know to not break rules and sometimes I don't realised I've crossed a line until I've crossed it haha

So I'm very strongly putting my foot forward to a general happier vibe for these reminders ! That'll stop confusion, I reckon!


Also, thank you so much on the response for the warning system! I put questions in bullet points so it's easier to answer!
•Where is it that we can see our warning score? •How high does it have to get until mods take action against the account in any way?
•When this happens, is it like an evaluation of why the warning rating is so high and if its just a lot of minor warnings, then the mods agree to just put a temporary ban on the account?
•Once a warning has been removed, is it always visible to mods, but not in an official way, just as an "fyi this player has done this a few years ago" kind of thing?
I've always applied to be a mod because im so passionate about keeping CS a nice, kind and safe space (which is what a lot of my arguments are about which ...doesnt help i know lol) but I know I did stupid stuff when I was younger and wondered if that will always hinder my chances !

Thank you in advance for your response !

[beestie]

support but in a kind of roundabout way - i think a big chunk of the issues listed here could be remedied with clearer rules.
i've spoken to a cs mod on multiple occasions (who i'll keep anonymous) because i've gotten warnings for rules i simply do not understand and asked for things to be explained to me because it just isn't clear.

there are many rules that could benefit from visual guides - the one i struggled with for a while was art related and how anthros must have fur on their chests. in order to understand what was ACTUALLY appropriate, i had to send my mod acquaintance multiple images just to figure out what was allowed under site rules.

this comes from someone who has autism and adhd - visuals and clear language is the best way to get people to understand and follow rules. i just recently learned that oekaki threads - art shops and adoptables - are allowed to accept usd only but simple forum art shops are not allowed that option. the rule for that is not clear.

GENERAL ART SHOP RULES REGARDING REAL CURRENCY:


Your art shop must accept CS payment. You may list other options aswell but if you do not accept CS pets, items or C$ for your art then your shop does not belong here. Commissions for real money may not be discussed on CS (this includes PMs). These need to be directed off-site but keep in mind that sharing emails or linking to sites where personal information is easily found is not allowed. Things from Animal Jam may never be a payment option on CS.


OEKAKI ART SHOP RULES REGARDING REAL CURRENCY:


You may sell Oekaki art/adoptables for CS pets/items/C$, allowed offsite currency, and dA points/real currency. Keep in mind that CS staff are unable to assist with transactions gone wrong involving other site currency or real currency.
Any real currency discussion must occur offsite; please link to where you can be contacted. Do not discuss real currency transactions on CS.



these read as practically the same thing if you aren't paying super close attention to the way its worded - because yes, while you may accept usd as a form of payment, it must be discussed offsite and under the assumption that a forum shop cannot take JUST real currency, it would be understood that oekaki shops are the same. the rule is not clear in the fact that you CAN INDEED only have usd as a payment option in your oekaki shop. the wording just isn't clear enough, it's too similar to a contradicting rule for forum shops and there are other rules that i'm sure people have had a difficult time understanding due to odd wording. (also, if a mod happens to see this, why is that the rule? why can oekaki shops take just usd but forum shops can't? i posed this question to a couple other mods but no one rly... knows??)

i'm just using this as an example as it was a discussion i had recently - so to tie it back in to the topic of the thread, clearer rules, added visuals to said rules, and a nicer tone with staff when simple mistakes are made would make all the difference. i think it'd make staff lives easier and it'd be a lot less stressful on users (especially neurodivergent users). i understand that help tickets are there to assist when a rule is unclear to a user, but unfortunately help tickets are not helpful when there are users who have had sour interactions with staff in the past and feel as though they will just be talked down to - which is more common than i think people want to admit.

[Kujali]

Figured I'd jump in and add a little experience I had here. This isn't major at all but I wanted to contribute.

One time for a forum game I posted a link to my ToyHouse, which had characters with art with minor gore (Sections showing a characters bone/blood/flesh color) and one instance of swearing that i forgot to censor. The staff messaged me a warning, but continued on that that sort of content is "Unacceptable and don't share this content again" and that I'm "Breaking the rules of a family-friendly site" Which I felt was weirdly really stern... I'm not at all mad at said mod and I'm glad they informed me, but the wording seemed angry if that makes sense? Maybe I'm just overly sensitive but I felt really guilty afterwards. I shouldn't be feeling guilty after an honest mistake, but again maybe I was reading too much into it.

[Audrey_Bee]

Figured I'd jump in and add a little experience I had here. This isn't major at all but I wanted to contribute.

One time for a forum game I posted a link to my ToyHouse, which had characters with art with minor gore (Sections showing a characters bone/blood/flesh color) and one instance of swearing that i forgot to censor. The staff messaged me a warning, but continued on that that sort of content is "Unacceptable and don't share this content again" and that I'm "Breaking the rules of a family-friendly site" Which I felt was weirdly really stern... I'm not at all mad at said mod and I'm glad they informed me, but the wording seemed angry if that makes sense? Maybe I'm just overly sensitive but I felt really guilty afterwards. I shouldn't be feeling guilty after an honest mistake, but again maybe I was reading too much into it.

I completely understand you ! It can seem fairly abrupt unfortuantely, that's what we're trying to change !

Just to make sure the thread doesn't get locked again for it becoming too much or a rant thread and to get it back on track, what would you like to see instead? For example if you saw someone make that mistake you did, how would you message the user about it ? Just to show what you would like to see in future ! ❤️

[Kujali]

Thank you, and my bad!

I'd like warnings to be just a bit gently. I understand they have to be stern since it is a warning, but I think reassurance and something like "It's ok to make mistakes" Would be really appreciated. I don't want anybody to feel like they're a bad person because they accidentally broke a rule.

[Falco]

I think a lot of the older rules should be rephrased or gone into more in depth.
I’ve had a hard time understanding some rules in the past