blueh wrote:Depending on where you live, camels and reindeer can be classified as exotic species. In some parts of the world they are common and the care they are provided is much different than other parts. And if you can't "safely" own a camel, then how are you going to safely own a large exotic?
The video that you linked is actually very cool! Most of the videos are from a sport called IPO, a protection sport. The entire point of that sport is human control. If the dog does not listen to the handler, he does not advance on. However, those are also trained behaviors. It's a really fun sport to watch and there is much more to it than just bite work! There is also holds & blinds which the dog has to do. You mentioned kangals and caucasian shepherds which are LGD (livestock guardian dogs) and not human protection dogs. They are bred to protect their herd, it's a job that was given to them. It's a desired behavior & dogs that don't show that behavior are often washed.
Yes, I am aware of IPO. My point is that it isn't a safe animal. The dog almost grabbed that man's neck. That is not safe. If the handler did not react in time, he could have been severely injured. They are a primitive dog breed that is very independent, protective, and can be difficult to train. They are dangerous. Again, not as dangerous as a crocodile, but not an animal I would call safe. In your previous post, one of the ways you classified "exotic" is nondomestic. Reindeer and camels are domestic, so by the definition you gave they are not exotic. And some people call mice and ferrets exotic. Some may call certain dog and cat breeds exotic, such as a sphynx cat. I don't know about you, but I wanna stick with one definition of "exotic" for now, not switch back and forth between different ones. Also, if you can't keep a camel as a companion, which I am personally okay with given that proper care needs are met and precautions are taken when around the animal, I guess we shouldn't keep LSGs as companions? They were not bred to be companions. They are not human protection dogs as you stated, yet the dog in the video is a Caucasian shepherd.
blueh wrote:And if you can't "safely" own a camel, then how are you going to safely own a large exotic?
You can't. My point was that if you think you shouldn't have an animal because it is unsafe, than camels shouldn't be kept either. They are both extremely dangerous. I don't care if I am being trampled by a camel or being eaten by a tiger. I die either way, and either or can happen and have happened before. A tiger is more likely to kill than a camel, but both are still likely, and it really won't matter when someone is killed. Its like venomous snakes. Everyone wonders what the most toxic snake is, and which one is most likely to strike, but it won't matter when it bites you. Whether it is a black mamba or a cottonmouth, you are going to need to rush to the hospital.
I totally agree with you on most of what you say, I just believe it is important to recognize the fact that domestic animals can be very hard to care for and dangerous, sometimes more so that some exotics. An abused pitbull that has never been socialized will be more dangerous than a well-cared for and socialized wolf. Saying that exotics are "more dangerous/more difficult to care for" is too broad of a statement, as it depends on too many variables.
blueh wrote:That is exactly the problem with exotics. If humans can barley take care of an animal that is mostly domesticated then how can they take of an exotic? The care for exotics is so much more intensive than, say, a dog, and the experience needed to keep the majority of them thriving is high.
Domestication has nothing to do with how easy or how dangerous an animal is. Ball pythons, a nondomestic, is far easier than any domestic dog. A burm is probably easier, if you don't count how heavy they are, causing issues with handling. And WSL are a domestic animal. They were bred for human use and humans have gotten desired traits out of them. They don't need all their instincts taken away, or to be safe, or loving, or whatever. The only requirement for "domestication" is to be bred for certain traits. They may be only recently considered a "breed", but they are ancient and have accompanied humans for centuries.
blueh wrote:I've seen a young couple buy a small, reticulated python thinking that it will only grow three or four feet. I've seen people buy parrots thinking that they only live for 5-10 years and not realizing that they can out live their owners.
Here you mention birds, which are far more often abused the crocodilians simply because they are higher in demand and easier to get. It isn't just the "dangerous" and "difficult" animals that are the problem.
Now like you with mammals, I am not sure about the laws for crocodilians. But the laws for tigers and other large felids are very strict, and I do not know of a place in the US where you can have a tiger unlicensed, so tigers certainly aren't a huge problem, despite what AR groups may lead many to believe. But my point was that the primary animals that are abused are animals seen as "easy." If you see a ton of crocodilians being abused, that is unfortunate and something needs to change. However, I highly doubt there is more alligator abuse than bearded dragon abuse. We have places like BHB and NERD mass-producing ball pythons and sending them out to tons of unchecked owners, while no one is really mass-producing crocodiles. So crocodilians are not the primary issue here. The more "acceptable" exotics are.
blueh wrote:The majority of the people buying exotic don't understand the consequences of that animal; they want them because they are cool. Owning an exotic is a lifetime commitment and a lifestyle change. They're expensive (so, so expensive), require a lot of space, time and vet care (so important!! very few vets treat exotics) and not everyone has that much to give to them. I've said this before and I'll say it again, but outside of research, conservation and education there should be no reason to own a large exotic.
Again, it is the same with domestic animals. Honestly, most people don't even know how to care for a chihuahua and don't know the consequences for buying one. I'll emphasize that I know that most people can't care for a tiger, and that there are more people out there that are capable of caring for a chihuahua than most exotics. The point is that most people can not, or will not, properly care for any animal. So in the end, it doesn't matter how difficult or dangerous an animal is. Most people won't care for an animal properly. ALL animals need regulation. Also, there is no reason to own a domestic either, unless it is a service animal. There are people out there that are willing and capable of caring for difficult and dangerous animals. They put all their time and energy into their animals. Those people exist, and I wish to protect their freedom to own the animal they wish to own. They should not be put down for the ignorance, negligence, and irresponsibility of other people. If they wish to have a tiger of their own, rather than work at a zoo, there is no reason they can't, given that they have the space, time, money, experience, and passion to care for it..
To sum up all my rambling, domestics can be difficult and dangerous, sometimes more so than some exotics. If certain animals shouldn't be kept because they are unsafe, then that should include many domestics, not just exotics. "Difficult" and "dangerous" animals shouldn't be the primary focus, as the more common and easy pets are the ones that are more often abused. In the end, we shouldn't focus on whether or not it is "exotic" or "domestic". We should focus on keeping ALL animals away from people who can't care for them and make sure they go to people who know what they are doing, and we shouldn't punish and put down people who know what they are doing because of irresponsible people. I agree there is problems when it comes to large, dangerous exotic animals, and regulations should be put in place, but it is important to understand that the same should be done for domestics as well as "easy" and "safe" exotics. I agree with most of what you say, but it is important to realize that the large and dangerous exotics are not the primary issue when it comes to exotics as a whole.
Edit ;; I hope this all makes some sense. My mind has been kinda foggy lately.
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