New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

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New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Simon » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:14 am

We felt like there needed to be clearer guidelines for our rules regarding unconventional trading such as offsite/art trades. These are the most common types of trades to be reported for issues, scamming, and disputes.

Offsite Trade Rules
Art Shop/Trade Rules

To summarize the main points:

- Offsite trade threads will now require that username for other site is stated and account/s linked
- Both parties must exchange off-site account info before trades are finalized
- All relevant information should be stated in trade messages (for example: username, value of what is being traded, applicable website, relevant links, etc.)
- When a mistake is made in trade message (about amount etc.), users must resend with fixed message
- Users cannot change info in accept message - documentation should be done on the trade itself that the other user agreed to these changes


These changes should help limit instances of scamming and make it easier for staff to help resolve disputes. If you have any questions, please feel free to post here and we will try to address any concerns!
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby bark » Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:54 pm

Neato!

Been always linking my FR profile in trade messages, and asking for my partner's in return; but I'm glad this is now a rule. Makes it much easier to spot scammers. 👍
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Lanayru » Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:45 am

Please avoid making off-site trades with friends and family, as these trades can look identical to cheating and you may put your account at risk.


This is... such a bizarre thing to say? I mainly trade offsite with people I'm at least somewhat friendly with simply because it's much safer and I can trust those people to not scam me - I honestly would be INCREDIBLY hesitant to do any high-value trading with users I did not know. If mods genuinely cannot distinguish between cheating and natural interaction with friends and family maybe some reconsideration of how offsite trading is handled is in order.

I understand WHY it could raise concern within staff but telling people not to do something as normal and harmless as interacting and trading with friends feels incredibly out-of-touch with the way people ACTUALLY trade. :-/

edit// I'd also appreciate a minor clarification - are these new guidelines 100% a must or more of a "well if you don't we can't help you" kinda thing? If I'm trading with an user I'm familiar with and don't extensively record it because I trust them would I get penalized for that if a mod noticed?
Last edited by Lanayru on Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby badass skeleton » Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:49 am

Simon wrote:Please avoid making off-site trades with friends and family, as these trades can look identical to cheating and you may put your account at risk


This should be reworded. "Avoid making offsite trades with friends and family" makes it seem like you're totally clueless when it comes to cheating or when it's between friends and family and could be reprimanded if staff believes you're cheating when it's just a family member or such.

Instead it should be "making off-site trades with either friends and family can look identical to cheating, and may put your account at risk"
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby 002 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:31 am

Thanks!
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Vacant » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:44 am

Buglet wrote:
Simon wrote:Please avoid making off-site trades with friends and family, as these trades can look identical to cheating and you may put your account at risk


This should be reworded. "Avoid making offsite trades with friends and family" makes it seem like you're totally clueless when it comes to cheating or when it's between friends and family and could be reprimanded if staff believes you're cheating when it's just a family member or such.

Instead it should be "making off-site trades with either friends and family can look identical to cheating, and may put your account at risk"


Agreed. Clarification with this is needed. Wording it the original way makes it sound like a user would be breaking a rule, resulting in a reprimand.

I also agree with Lanayru, where if staff cannot tell the difference between cheating + friendly trades between people who know each other then there should be some reconsideration of how things are handled. And agreed with the clarification between actual guidelines or 'we can't help you if you don't have these specific things documented' , which to me sounds more like rules than guidelines.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby jinbad » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:53 am

Simon wrote:Please avoid making off-site trades with friends and family, as these trades can look identical to cheating and you may put your account at risk


I have to agree with the others regrading the wording of this quote. In addition to the concerns the other user's pointed out, the wording of this kind of conflicts with this portion of the CS Account Rules:

Simon wrote:You may exchange gifts or occasionally make unfair trades with your friends, family, or other users accessing CS from the same device or IP address. However, a majority of trades should be fair and gifts should not consistently benefit only one account.


So, gifts and unfair trades are fine, but off-site trades, which often look identical to gifts or unfair trades, are not? I would almost argue that off-site trades have more of a ground to prove it wasn't cheating than regular gifts or unfair trades because you can verify that something of equal value was traded, just on another site.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Celozon » Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:38 am

Just to try and help clarify things, doing offsite trades, gifts, etc with friends and family is allowed. That said, repeatedly profiting from another CS account when they send you little to nothing back in exchange is considered cheating regardless of if it is another person or a second account. This seems to be a point of confusion for a lot of people that they think it is only considered cheating if one person is making multiple accounts, this isn't true. For example; if you have a sibling who joined CS but doesn't really play, and they send you their monthly adopts every month cause they don't care to keep them, that is still considered cheating, as it would be essentially the same as you owning two accounts.

This is why we tell users to avoid sending large (or lots of small) gifts to friends and family, especially repeatedly, as it can look very much like one account is existing solely to profit another. As long as the other user is receiving a fair exchange there really is not anything to worry about (which is why it is fine to make trades with friends and family as much as you want as long as you try and keep them mostly fair, gifts should be kept small or infrequent). This is difficult to confirm with off-site trades however since we are not able to see what they received in exchange, which is why we advise against it where possible with friends and family.

If you are worried about this and want to do an off-site trade with a friend or family member, I'd simply suggest following all of the guidelines for off-site trades, like sharing usernames, what exactly is being traded, etc. Be sure to share all of this on CS, sharing it in the trade or through PM. If you are able to show definitive proof that the exchange on the other site was completed, do so.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby nickjr » Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:53 am

^ I'm not staff but it's always been like this (minus the need to document everything extensively). Similarly, trading for real life things with people you know in real life (e.g. chores, baked goods) is also heavily discouraged (it's an extension of why the "but they're my sibling!" excuse that's given with basic cheating doesn't work: it's the human tendency to be nice being taken advantage of via social engineering, as usual). At least when it come to off-site trades, if it's really needed, you can get proof on the other website.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby depressedanonymous, » Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:10 pm

Thanks for the update Simon!
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