New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby useless witch » Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:14 am

nickjr wrote:^ I'm not staff but it's always been like this (minus the need to document everything extensively). Similarly, trading for real life things with people you know in real life (e.g. chores, baked goods) is also heavily discouraged (it's an extension of why the "but they're my sibling!" excuse that's given with basic cheating doesn't work: it's the human tendency to be nice being taken advantage of via social engineering, as usual). At least when it come to off-site trades, if it's really needed, you can get proof on the other website.

Uhh... I'm confused, since when is trading irl heavily discouraged? Our real life economy literally started on trading? Maybe I don't understand your comment x.x
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Burrito Bunny » Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:46 am

useless witch wrote:
nickjr wrote:^ I'm not staff but it's always been like this (minus the need to document everything extensively). Similarly, trading for real life things with people you know in real life (e.g. chores, baked goods) is also heavily discouraged (it's an extension of why the "but they're my sibling!" excuse that's given with basic cheating doesn't work: it's the human tendency to be nice being taken advantage of via social engineering, as usual). At least when it come to off-site trades, if it's really needed, you can get proof on the other website.

Uhh... I'm confused, since when is trading irl heavily discouraged? Our real life economy literally started on trading? Maybe I don't understand your comment x.x

They mean trading CS pets for real life things that have zero proof and could easily be interpreted to just be cheating.

For example, "hey [sibling], if you do my chores for me today, I'll give you some pets on CS."

This can easily look like one account is existing just to benefit another (cheating), and so it is heavily discouraged. It is also against the rules to trade CS pets for IRL goods and services regardless.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby nickjr » Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:42 am

Oops, yes, that's what I meant! Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Taro_Queen » Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:49 am

Celozon wrote:Just to try and help clarify things, doing offsite trades, gifts, etc with friends and family is allowed. That said, repeatedly profiting from another CS account when they send you little to nothing back in exchange is considered cheating regardless of if it is another person or a second account. This seems to be a point of confusion for a lot of people that they think it is only considered cheating if one person is making multiple accounts, this isn't true. For example; if you have a sibling who joined CS but doesn't really play, and they send you their monthly adopts every month cause they don't care to keep them, that is still considered cheating, as it would be essentially the same as you owning two accounts.

This is why we tell users to avoid sending large (or lots of small) gifts to friends and family, especially repeatedly, as it can look very much like one account is existing solely to profit another. As long as the other user is receiving a fair exchange there really is not anything to worry about (which is why it is fine to make trades with friends and family as much as you want as long as you try and keep them mostly fair, gifts should be kept small or infrequent). This is difficult to confirm with off-site trades however since we are not able to see what they received in exchange, which is why we advise against it where possible with friends and family.

If you are worried about this and want to do an off-site trade with a friend or family member, I'd simply suggest following all of the guidelines for off-site trades, like sharing usernames, what exactly is being traded, etc. Be sure to share all of this on CS, sharing it in the trade or through PM. If you are able to show definitive proof that the exchange on the other site was completed, do so.


Simon wrote:You may exchange gifts or occasionally make unfair trades with your friends, family, or other users accessing CS from the same device or IP address. However, a majority of trades should be fair and gifts should not consistently benefit only one account.


Still feels like its contradicting itself though, the rules say that you are allowed to send unfair trades or gifts to friends or family but you're saying its cheating regardless?
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Lex. » Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:31 am

Lanayru wrote:-snip-

edit// I'd also appreciate a minor clarification - are these new guidelines 100% a must or more of a "well if you don't we can't help you" kinda thing? If I'm trading with an user I'm familiar with and don't extensively record it because I trust them would I get penalized for that if a mod noticed?


I also have a question about this. In the past I've been approached randomly on the other sites [specifically FR, it's really the only site that I trade things on CS with] because they've just seen my username places, would it be fine if all of that is just discussed personally over trades or dms rather than on threads?

I'd rather not have anyone that I have blocked have access to my off-site accounts as they can most likely interact with me there [which can bypass blocks here] ^^;
Other than that I agree with everything else, it wouldn't be bad, just a tad more work.
Last edited by Seasonal on Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: Off-topic content removed. Please submit a help ticket if you need a rule to be clarified for you by CS staff.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby immortality » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:53 pm

Taro_Queen wrote:
Celozon wrote:Just to try and help clarify things, doing offsite trades, gifts, etc with friends and family is allowed. That said, repeatedly profiting from another CS account when they send you little to nothing back in exchange is considered cheating regardless of if it is another person or a second account. This seems to be a point of confusion for a lot of people that they think it is only considered cheating if one person is making multiple accounts, this isn't true. For example; if you have a sibling who joined CS but doesn't really play, and they send you their monthly adopts every month cause they don't care to keep them, that is still considered cheating, as it would be essentially the same as you owning two accounts.

This is why we tell users to avoid sending large (or lots of small) gifts to friends and family, especially repeatedly, as it can look very much like one account is existing solely to profit another. As long as the other user is receiving a fair exchange there really is not anything to worry about (which is why it is fine to make trades with friends and family as much as you want as long as you try and keep them mostly fair, gifts should be kept small or infrequent). This is difficult to confirm with off-site trades however since we are not able to see what they received in exchange, which is why we advise against it where possible with friends and family.

If you are worried about this and want to do an off-site trade with a friend or family member, I'd simply suggest following all of the guidelines for off-site trades, like sharing usernames, what exactly is being traded, etc. Be sure to share all of this on CS, sharing it in the trade or through PM. If you are able to show definitive proof that the exchange on the other site was completed, do so.


Simon wrote:You may exchange gifts or occasionally make unfair trades with your friends, family, or other users accessing CS from the same device or IP address. However, a majority of trades should be fair and gifts should not consistently benefit only one account.


Still feels like its contradicting itself though, the rules say that you are allowed to send unfair trades or gifts to friends or family but you're saying its cheating regardless?


x2

I send lopsided trades all the time to my good IRL friend who I've known for almost 20 years. I know she likes to hoard certain pets that I don't care for (specifically, most BW), so I am happy to send them directly to her instead of trying to trade them away. If I didn't personally know her, I wouldn't do this. I would hate to risk punishment just because I like gifting a friend.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Vulpinyo » Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:52 am

If the trade was discussed offsite should we just put the agreed upon terms in the trade message?
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby Celozon » Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:02 am

maplecrft wrote:
Taro_Queen wrote:
Still feels like its contradicting itself though, the rules say that you are allowed to send unfair trades or gifts to friends or family but you're saying its cheating regardless?


x2

I send lopsided trades all the time to my good IRL friend who I've known for almost 20 years. I know she likes to hoard certain pets that I don't care for (specifically, most BW), so I am happy to send them directly to her instead of trying to trade them away. If I didn't personally know her, I wouldn't do this. I would hate to risk punishment just because I like gifting a friend.


You are allowed to send unfair trades and gifts between you and family or friends. Cheating is when someone takes advantage of another account to get free stuff, like my example, having a sibling send you their monthly pets every month because they don't play anymore. That is no longer a gift, thats profiting off your sibling's account when they no longer play or have any investment CS, that is cheating. The lines between allowed unfair trades/gifts and cheating can be very close together though, especially when you are on the same IP as someone and one person is receiving the majority of the pets. It can look very similar to profiting off the other account for little to nothing in return. That is why we warn against it, that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to, we just encourage you to exercise caution, and keep trades as fair as possible. If trades are kept mostly fair, and gifts are small, infrequent, or being send on both sides so neither is consistently getting more than the other, then its not an issue. In this instance we are primarily concerned with users who are taking advantage of and profiting off having, what is essentially, multiple accounts.

This discussion seems to be getting off topic though since this is supposed to be primarily about the changes offsite trades and art trade rules. The rules on cheating and trading with family/friends has not changed and only relevant here in that offsite trades can appear like gifts. If you have further questions about our rules on cheating I suggest sending in a help ticket.

Vulpinyo wrote:If the trade was discussed offsite should we just put the agreed upon terms in the trade message?


Yes, there should be documentation on the CS side as well, so you should list things in the trade like exactly what is being traded on both sides and both of your username/profile links on the other site.
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Re: New Rules/Guidelines for Offsite and Art Trading

Postby DarkSmoothie78 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:57 am

Simon wrote:We felt like there needed to be clearer guidelines for our rules regarding unconventional trading such as offsite/art trades. These are the most common types of trades to be reported for issues, scamming, and disputes.

Offsite Trade Rules
Art Shop/Trade Rules

To summarize the main points:

- Offsite trade threads will now require that username for other site is stated and account/s linked
- Both parties must exchange off-site account info before trades are finalized
- All relevant information should be stated in trade messages (for example: username, value of what is being traded, applicable website, relevant links, etc.)
- When a mistake is made in trade message (about amount etc.), users must resend with fixed message
- Users cannot change info in accept message - documentation should be done on the trade itself that the other user agreed to these changes


These changes should help limit instances of scamming and make it easier for staff to help resolve disputes. If you have any questions, please feel free to post here and we will try to address any concerns!


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