Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby ferretjuice » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:09 pm

yes this is great. harassment and foul talk is not welcome anywhere!
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby Chortanator » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:41 pm

I do think that this is a good idea, however, how can we prove that the person saying harmful things is the same person on ChickenSmoothie? Especially if they know that it can be punished now, nothing stops someone from, say, changing their name to a CS user they dislike and bullying someone else to get that user in trouble.
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby Vertu » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:53 pm

Chortanator wrote:I do think that this is a good idea, however, how can we prove that the person saying harmful things is the same person on ChickenSmoothie? Especially if they know that it can be punished now, nothing stops someone from, say, changing their name to a CS user they dislike and bullying someone else to get that user in trouble.

If you have the same source you used to discover the user, then that's the best evidence you got to prove it, that or the evidence would be sufficient in helping staff investigate your case further. If you are struggling to prove it directly, I would get as much evidence as possible as you are the person with inside perspective, staff don't always get to see what players see so I'm sure any evidence would help with your case
As for evading their identity, no 2 users can have the same username and everyone has a unique user ID at the end of their profile link.
If the person is anonymous and can not possibly be traced to their user on CS, there really is not much you can do unfortunately other than wait for incriminating evidence.
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby nickjr » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:09 pm

Vertu wrote:
Chortanator wrote:I do think that this is a good idea, however, how can we prove that the person saying harmful things is the same person on ChickenSmoothie? Especially if they know that it can be punished now, nothing stops someone from, say, changing their name to a CS user they dislike and bullying someone else to get that user in trouble.

If you have the same source you used to discover the user, then that's the best evidence you got to prove it, that or the evidence would be sufficient in helping staff investigate your case further. If you are struggling to prove it directly, I would get as much evidence as possible as you are the person with inside perspective, staff don't always get to see what players see so I'm sure any evidence would help with your case
As for evading their identity, no 2 users can have the same username and everyone has a unique user ID at the end of their profile link.
If the person is anonymous and can not possibly be traced to their user on CS, there really is not much you can do unfortunately other than wait for incriminating evidence.

I've also been thinking about this--what can I do if there is a user on another site engaging in illegal or harmful behavior while claiming to be me, nickjr, user ID 1586 on CS?

This rule overall is good, because now action can be taken against, for example, anyone who invites people via PMs on CS to chat off-site (e.g. on Discord) and then turns out to be doing illegal or harmful things like grooming. But given how large CS's userbase is, I'm sure that there are users who would aim to get other users banned via offsite impersonation.

That said, I totally understand if staff can't really answer this question clearly since this is kind of a hazy area...
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby Hawaii » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:33 pm

Chortanator wrote:I do think that this is a good idea, however, how can we prove that the person saying harmful things is the same person on ChickenSmoothie? Especially if they know that it can be punished now, nothing stops someone from, say, changing their name to a CS user they dislike and bullying someone else to get that user in trouble.


    I do admit this is a fear of mine, but I think it's somewhat easy to deduce if it's just someone playing foul and faking an identity. I trust the staff to pay close attention to this. And in the case it did happen, I'm sure staff would take proper action to punish whoever it was lying. Easily as bad as actually harassing someone offsite, imo.
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby Cløckwørk » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:23 pm

Hawaii wrote:
Chortanator wrote:I do think that this is a good idea, however, how can we prove that the person saying harmful things is the same person on ChickenSmoothie? Especially if they know that it can be punished now, nothing stops someone from, say, changing their name to a CS user they dislike and bullying someone else to get that user in trouble.


    I do admit this is a fear of mine, but I think it's somewhat easy to deduce if it's just someone playing foul and faking an identity. I trust the staff to pay close attention to this. And in the case it did happen, I'm sure staff would take proper action to punish whoever it was lying. Easily as bad as actually harassing someone offsite, imo.


There are many ways to do this, similar nicknames, certain words that are used, preferred emojis, certain habits.. And if it is a serious case, even emails or ip addresses that staff on said platforms can access. Usually someone knows who it is who's being the bully, sometimes it just takes the courage to name them to the proper authorities.

But at the end of the day.. You have nothing to fear if you've got nothing to hide. c:
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby Hawaii » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:53 pm

Cløckwørk wrote:There are many ways to do this, similar nicknames, certain words that are used, preferred emojis, certain habits.. And if it is a serious case, even emails or ip addresses that staff on said platforms can access. Usually someone knows who it is who's being the bully, sometimes it just takes the courage to name them to the proper authorities.

But at the end of the day.. You have nothing to fear if you've got nothing to hide. c:


I am well aware; my wording was just incorrect. What i should have said was “It would have a concern of mine”. ^^
I don’t engage in CS based communities anymore and haven’t in a long while, so really it doesn’t affect me. But it’s a good rule change because I hear of and see so much harassment happening offsite.

However I will say this is not an issue of “but if you have nothing to hide” as it could happen to literally anybody, innocent or not.. That feels a bit ignorant.
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby ZΕL » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:51 pm

Just to address this concern real quick:
You're completely right that amending the rules like this means there is a new opening for people to abuse it to get others into trouble, and rest assured that even before this announcement, that has been taken into consideration when people used screenshotted evidence in their reports.
It's something we're aware of, and something we'll be just as wary about, we won't pretend that it's not a concern.

But I also wanna throw in real quick that at the core of the issue, what this rule change is about isn't to find new ways to punish people for what they do off-site - it's about adjusting our rule framework to make it clear that we are willing to accept off-site behavior as evidence when necessary.
Previously, CS had a much more hands-off approach towards the way people used off-site communities to interact with the community on CS. And that has resulted in cases where the perpetrators of harrassment have been completely transparent, but staff had their hands tied because "it's not on CS".
It essentially provided something of a loophole for people to incite harrassment towards others, knowing they would get away with it even if their usernames were attached, as long as it was off-site.

We've felt that it was necessary to change this, to say that from now on sufficient off-site evidence can be taken into consideration, because we believe that it is fair game when those off-site actions so significantly affect the target's day-to-day experience on CS.

There is a great deal to be considered in the wake of this, and we're grateful for everyone who points out concerns and potential issues that could arise.



As for the rest - I would like to hope that people understand that the necessity of moderating this thread is not indicative of the moderating user's opinion or rule on the issue that was presented.
It simply boils down to this: Making posts on here about things that are already the subject of reports does nothing to further the investigation of said report, and doesn't provide any useful help for dealing with the problem at hand. It merely creates unrest that more often than not distracts from focusing on the actual issue.

We're sorry if reports are addressed slowly, because as mentioned before, Admin-only tickets and reports are visible to and worked on by such a small number of people (but this admin input is absolutely necessary especially in cases where laws come into play).
We do understand the frustration that comes with this and with the wait.
(And unfortunately, yes, even the rest of the team can be spread thin at times; real life hasn't been kind recently and it reflects on our online lives too.)

Just remember that what the users hear from the team via ticket responses and forum posts comprises only the significant parts of dealing with a report or ticket. Discussion of the case at hand happens behind the scenes and in privacy, so a lack of response to a report isn't indicative of the report not having been touched yet or worse, abandoned.

Though we do hear you on the issue that it creates the feeling that things are falling under the table, and there's certainly room for figuring out how we can keep people reassured that something is being looked at within that frame of confidentality.
(For what it's worth, if you are worried that a ticket/report has been forgotten, do feel free to send a new message in that ticket to poke and ask "can you just let me know real quick if you're still on this", and someone can shoot you a quick "yes we are".)


Thanks to everyone for helping us with refining the rule change :)
            
            
            
            
            
            
            
            
            
            
            
            

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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby i<3 wolves678 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:06 am

What personally bothers me about this rule is that a lot of the “offsite bullying” I have seen is in regards to actual problematic users either potentially/actually exposing minors to dangerous content, being blatantly homophobic/transphobic, or in general being someone who causes a lot of issues in the community (scamming, ninja trading, etc.)

Many of these things get reported to staff by the users complaining and are often let slide, and that’s why people are angry. CS is considered a safe space for many minors, but seeing users get away with harmful actions without rectification simply for being popular or well known is upsetting to say the least. This website means a lot to me and has helped me get through a lot of difficult times growing up, I only want the best for it and for other users to have the same good experiences I have had, but in more recent times, it feels like things have changed a lot. I don’t want this message to be taken the wrong way, I just want what’s best for the website moving forward, and feel like this needed to be said.
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Re: Rule Change targeting offsite bullying/harassment

Postby keiikoa ! » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:55 am

i<3 wolves678 wrote:
What personally bothers me about this rule is that a lot of the “offsite bullying” I have seen is in regards to actual problematic users either potentially/actually exposing minors to dangerous content, being blatantly homophobic/transphobic, or in general being someone who causes a lot of issues in the community (scamming, ninja trading, etc.)

Many of these things get reported to staff by the users complaining and are often let slide, and that’s why people are angry. CS is considered a safe space for many minors, but seeing users get away with harmful actions without rectification simply for being popular or well known is upsetting to say the least. This website means a lot to me and has helped me get through a lot of difficult times growing up, I only want the best for it and for other users to have the same good experiences I have had, but in more recent times, it feels like things have changed a lot. I don’t want this message to be taken the wrong way, I just want what’s best for the website moving forward, and feel like this needed to be said.


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