{ ＩＮＫＬＩＮＧＳ } LOCK! NEW THREAD

[Silverhart]

I don't know what to vote; questions about my main character always get me because I have two stories. One of them has 2 main characters and the other has 5... so, yeah XD

I have the same problem. I'm working on one story with a female protagonist, but it's short. My other current projects have males in the lead. Though, this discussion has me thinking about revising an old story that has a female protagonist and working on that. ^^ It's pretty old so all the characters were kind of weak, except the main secondary character (who funnily enough is also female). But I really like the concept of it. It just didn't have strong enough characters or plot to really work when I first wrote it.

[Rolly-chan]

I have to severely disagree with the popular opinion here.
It is very wrong and disgusting to have an all-male cast and hate on female characters just because they're female.
Why? Because it's not really about female characters, it's about women. Women are hated and blamed everywhere, STILL (and people are seriously STILL asking what a woman was wearing when she's been assaulted, which just shows how very skewed people's perspectives are). The patriarchy is STILL in place and it STILL makes people hate anything and everything female. It makes women hate themselves and be misogynistic towards other women. It is a huge, monstrous, gargantuan problem, not for stories, but for all societies.
There are tons and TONS of female characters who act just like very beloved male characters, but they are hated on for the very same thing people love the male character for. It's highly hypocritical, but people usually never question that. That's patriarchy. Because the only people who have influence are male white privileged people and female white privileged people who agree with the male white privileged ones.

You are not only hating female characters, you are hating femininity. And nope, I'm not going to sugar-coat this. It has to be said and people have to become aware of this.

You don't always have to write about female characters equally, and you don't always have to write about diverse characters, but representation matters, many minorities grow up in an environment that makes them feel insignificant because the default is white and male and there's hardly any diversity in the popular books, which makes them invisible in the "book-world". That's wrong when there are so many of those minorities (including people with disabilities)! When HALF the population is female. But still - STILL - the majority of books are about male heroes. About white privileged people.

Don't, for one second, think your writing doesn't have an impact on people. It has.

And it's disgusting to hate a gender.
Nuff said.

i have to disagree with you. i am female, and though i see your point, i have to say that people like you are what give feminists a bad name. i'm a feminist. i feel as though there need to be more female characters and more rights for women. but you have to understand that not everything is about equality and the overbearing reign of the patriarchy.
if you can't sense my sarcasm, you may have a problem.
i don't think that hating to write female characters means you hate girls. that simply isn't logical, and it's quite narrow-minded of you to say that. i prefer male characters because the way female protagonists are often portrayed disgusts me, and the attitude of many women-- like you-- make me ashamed of my gender. what you're expressing isn't feminism-- it's an opinionated projection of something that simply is not there.
kindly review your thoughts before posting them on the internet. this is not a place to bash people for preferring to write male characters. the problem is with female characters, not women in general.
or, rather, the problem is with people like you.

That makes us two feminists.
The problem is not that I see sexism and misogyny everywhere. The problem is that others do not. Misogyny affects everything, not just your direct opinion of women and femininity. It is still deeply rooted in all of us and it's not something that's purely conscious. In the Western world at least, we have lived for thousands of years in patriarchy. That's not something you can simply turn off like a switch. So when someone says they hate female characters simply because they are female, then yep, that's the main cause. When they hold female characters to unattainable standards while the male characters can have major flaws without trouble, then again, that's the cause.
My tone may have been uncalled for, and for that alone I apologize. But not for the meaning behind it. I stand for my opinion.
And, well, to me it IS disgusting to hate a gender simply for what it is.

There also isn't really a big difference between hating female characters and hating to write female characters simply because they are female and not portrayed the way you like. That's no reason not to write them at all. That's not an excuse not to create female characters according to your standards. Not having much experience with well-written female characters in fiction isn't an excuse either. Half the population is female (minus the ones who identify as another gender), so there's no way you all don't know at least a handful of girls/women. Female characters are characters, people, human beings, just like male ones. They are the same as male characters, they are created the same way. Just look at any well-developed male character and there you have your experience.
So yes, if you hate female characters or writing female characters, then you have internalized misogyny. And this doesn't mean you're a bad person. It means that's a problem you can work on.

(as a side note: I didn't say they hate girls. I said they hated femininity. That's not the same thing.)

[tuesdaysart]

I have to severely disagree with the popular opinion here.
It is very wrong and disgusting to have an all-male cast and hate on female characters just because they're female.
Why? Because it's not really about female characters, it's about women. Women are hated and blamed everywhere, STILL (and people are seriously STILL asking what a woman was wearing when she's been assaulted, which just shows how very skewed people's perspectives are). The patriarchy is STILL in place and it STILL makes people hate anything and everything female. It makes women hate themselves and be misogynistic towards other women. It is a huge, monstrous, gargantuan problem, not for stories, but for all societies.
There are tons and TONS of female characters who act just like very beloved male characters, but they are hated on for the very same thing people love the male character for. It's highly hypocritical, but people usually never question that. That's patriarchy. Because the only people who have influence are male white privileged people and female white privileged people who agree with the male white privileged ones.

You are not only hating female characters, you are hating femininity. And nope, I'm not going to sugar-coat this. It has to be said and people have to become aware of this.

You don't always have to write about female characters equally, and you don't always have to write about diverse characters, but representation matters, many minorities grow up in an environment that makes them feel insignificant because the default is white and male and there's hardly any diversity in the popular books, which makes them invisible in the "book-world". That's wrong when there are so many of those minorities (including people with disabilities)! When HALF the population is female. But still - STILL - the majority of books are about male heroes. About white privileged people.

Don't, for one second, think your writing doesn't have an impact on people. It has.

And it's disgusting to hate a gender.
Nuff said.

i have to disagree with you. i am female, and though i see your point, i have to say that people like you are what give feminists a bad name. i'm a feminist. i feel as though there need to be more female characters and more rights for women. but you have to understand that not everything is about equality and the overbearing reign of the patriarchy.
if you can't sense my sarcasm, you may have a problem.
i don't think that hating to write female characters means you hate girls. that simply isn't logical, and it's quite narrow-minded of you to say that. i prefer male characters because the way female protagonists are often portrayed disgusts me, and the attitude of many women-- like you-- make me ashamed of my gender. what you're expressing isn't feminism-- it's an opinionated projection of something that simply is not there.
kindly review your thoughts before posting them on the internet. this is not a place to bash people for preferring to write male characters. the problem is with female characters, not women in general.
or, rather, the problem is with people like you.

That makes us two feminists.
The problem is not that I see sexism and misogyny everywhere. The problem is that others do not. Misogyny affects everything, not just your direct opinion of women and femininity. It is still deeply rooted in all of us and it's not something that's purely conscious. In the Western world at least, we have lived for thousands of years in patriarchy. That's not something you can simply turn off like a switch. So when someone says they hate female characters simply because they are female, then yep, that's the main cause. When they hold female characters to unattainable standards while the male characters can have major flaws without trouble, then again, that's the cause.
My tone may have been uncalled for, and for that alone I apologize. But not for the meaning behind it. I stand for my opinion.
And, well, to me it IS disgusting to hate a gender simply for what it is.

There also isn't really a big difference between hating female characters and hating to write female characters simply because they are female and not portrayed the way you like. That's no reason not to write them at all. That's not an excuse not to create female characters according to your standards. Not having much experience with well-written female characters in fiction isn't an excuse either. Half the population is female (minus the ones who identify as another gender), so there's no way you all don't know at least a handful of girls/women. Female characters are characters, people, human beings, just like male ones. They are the same as male characters, they are created the same way. Just look at any well-developed male character and there you have your experience.
So yes, if you hate female characters or writing female characters, then you have internalized misogyny. And this doesn't mean you're a bad person. It means that's a problem you can work on.

(as a side note: I didn't say they hate girls. I said they hated femininity. That's not the same thing.)

I believe in feminism, but I'm gonna have to say a few things.
1. She has a right to write male characters over female. Want a feminist story? You've got a ton between the book stores, the Internet, and your brains!
2. It is more difficult to write a female character "correctly" because so much pressure is put on the writer. You can write any stereotype about men and 75% of the time, no one says a thing. Have a female stereotype? Your book gets shot down by angry feminists.
3. You say females and males are basically the same, but we have more rights than men. Someone "touches us uncomfortably"? We can file law suits. Men don't have the same privilege. Men don't get the nice half of the divorce. Men are viewed as slobs and creeps. You see where this is heading? ALL humans should be treated equally. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM.
4. She can hate anything she wants. It'd be immature of me to flag you both down for hating Catscratch, wouldn't it?
5. We all have our own preferences. A person who plumbs can't fix a table. A person who's in the food buisness can't work as a cop. They've been trained to do certain thins and that's their profession. Writing male characters is her profession.
=~= I probably missed good points, but being more open minded would help,
It's her own PERSONAL choice, so stop this PLEASE.

[Rolly-chan]

1. She has a right to write male characters over female. Want a feminist story? You've got a ton between the book stores, the Internet, and your brains!

I said it's wrong and disgusting not to write female characters simply because they are female. I haven't said they can't write male over female characters.

2. It is more difficult to write a female character "correctly" because so much pressure is put on the writer. You can write any stereotype about men and 75% of the time, no one says a thing. Have a female stereotype? Your book gets shot down by angry feminists.

Actually, the book gets shot down by people with internalized misogyny because suddenly people everywhere pop up and vomit their hate for the female lead all over the internet. At least that's the case far more often than what you describe.

3. You say females and males are basically the same, but we have more rights than men. Someone "touches us uncomfortably"? We can file law suits. Men don't have the same privilege. Men don't get the nice half of the divorce. Men are viewed as slobs and creeps. You see where this is heading? ALL humans should be treated equally. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM.

Please please please educate yourself. Women have less rights than men. Women sit twice as long in prison for murdering their husband than men sit there for murdering their wife, and in the majority of those cases, the women have been abused by their husbands prior to it, while in the majority of cases where men murder their wives the men HAVEN'T BEEN. Yeah, you can file law suits, but that doesn't mean it'll get you anywhere. Men have privileges freaking everywhere. How many female presidents have there been? As a woman, you have to fear being assaulted or raped. As a woman, just TRY to get pregnant, and most employers will want to get rid of you asap.
In India, men get away with raping women. In Africa it's the same. Raped women are seen as tainted, as if it's their fault. And in our Western society, women are also still blamed for being assaulted or raped. "Well, she must have provoked him" or "With what she was wearing, she asked for it". That's what people say. It's disgusting.
So no, women do NOT have more rights than men.
And, everyone being equal is what feminism is about. I don't see what that's got to do with anything here.

4. She can hate anything she wants. It'd be immature of me to flag you both down for hating Catscratch, wouldn't it?

Yeah, and I can hate anything I want too. Doesn't mean it would be right to hate black people. And hating women is just as wrong.

5. We all have our own preferences. A person who plumbs can't fix a table. A person who's in the food buisness can't work as a cop. They've been trained to do certain thins and that's their profession. Writing male characters is her profession.
=~= I probably missed good points, but being more open minded would help,
It's her own PERSONAL choice, so stop this PLEASE.

Again, I said hating them simply for being female is wrong. Never did I say it's wrong to write about male characters over female ones.

[watermelon.]

Okay everyone, I'm just fine with you all debating but it looks like this is turning into a fight rather than a small debate.

Keep it clean and feel free to voice your opinion, but please don't bash others.
(this is NOT directed to anyone in specific or has even happened but just letting you know)

[Mercury.Muses]

I said I wasn't going to poke into this but...


2. It is more difficult to write a female character "correctly" because so much pressure is put on the writer. You can write any stereotype about men and 75% of the time, no one says a thing. Have a female stereotype? Your book gets shot down by angry feminists.

Actually, the book gets shot down by people with internalized misogyny because suddenly people everywhere pop up and vomit their hate for the female lead all over the internet. At least that's the case far more often than what you describe.

-----
The hunger games has a female lead, hunger games was over played, but I haven't seen people going.. "I HATE THE HUNGER GAMES BECAUSE KATNISS IS A GIRL MAIN CHARACTER." I'm just pointing out here that I haven't seen females being hating for leads, even male + female main characters. I've read plenty of amazing, good selling books with females.

[Dylan Klebold]

Okay everyone, I'm just fine with you all debating but it looks like this is turning into a fight rather than a small debate.

Keep it clean and feel free to voice your opinion, but please don't bash others.
(this is NOT directed to anyone in specific or has even happened but just letting you know)

I don't want this to end like Signature Sorcerers... so yeah...

[watermelon.]

http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/06/2 ... haracters/

Read the 4th paragraph of this!

They also did a poll of different books, shows, plays, and found the main characters. The data was:
TOTAL CHARACTERS: 108
MALE: 68 (63%)
FEMALE:40 (37%)


I thought I would post this, because it has a lot of useful info.

End of disscussion. If you want to talk about it more- GO INTO PM.
@Gerard Way- YES DON'T LET THIS END LIKE THE SIGNATURE PLACE!!

[Zalia]

|On a lighter note, I have a question for you guys: What is your favorite genre to write, and to read? And what do you think is the easiest? I would have to say horror for the easiest, I am better at writing death scenes than anything else.|

[Greenleaf]

I particularly like fantasy. :3