Pitbull Debate...

[ReadingIndigo]

The computer, car, slipper, and balloon are all inanimate objects. They're rather predictable. Horses, obviously are alive, but most people wear safety equipment when riding. Very few people wear safety equipment when playing with a dog.

Yes, but my point is that people who are like this just simmer in their hate for a breed and they don't do anything to try and overcome it. It's just like any prejudice, baised and all it does is spread more misunderstanding and fear. And it should matter that most dogs are nice...that's the whole point. But when you take a fear and use that as an excuse for violent and or unnecessary behavior, like Ostwyn pointed out in those examples, it becomes an issue.

I'm not trying to say it's an excuse for violence. But your definition of unecessary may be different than mine. Violence is unneccessary. Fear is not. That being said, I do think therapy is an excellent idea for people with trauma.

It should matter that dogs are nice, but it doesn't. I was helping my grandmother at a museum children's program, and I met a kid with zoophobia. He was on the verge of tears at the sight of the chickens. They were doing absolutely nothing to him. Not looking at him, approaching him, or even showing knowledge of any kind of his existence.

and it becomes and issue if you spread the word, saying pit bulls are horrible dogs and after a few decades so many people think that.

I don't think that will ever happen, unless the person spreading the word is an authority figure or the media. Even then, so many people will say they are fine dogs, that I doubt it will ever be a real problem.

[IAmLink]

The computer, car, slipper, and balloon are all inanimate objects. They're rather predictable. Horses, obviously are alive, but most people wear safety equipment when riding. Very few people wear safety equipment when playing with a dog.

Yes, but my point is that people who are like this just simmer in their hate for a breed and they don't do anything to try and overcome it. It's just like any prejudice, baised and all it does is spread more misunderstanding and fear. And it should matter that most dogs are nice...that's the whole point. But when you take a fear and use that as an excuse for violent and or unnecessary behavior, like Ostwyn pointed out in those examples, it becomes an issue.

I'm not trying to say it's an excuse for violence. But your definition of unecessary may be different than mine. Violence is unneccessary. Fear is not. That being said, I do think therapy is an excellent idea for people with trauma.

It should matter that dogs are nice, but it doesn't. I was helping my grandmother at a museum children's program, and I met a kid with zoophobia. He was on the verge of tears at the sight of the chickens. They were doing absolutely nothing to him. Not looking at him, approaching him, or even showing knowledge of any kind of his existence.

But this is exactly my point. People who have had traumatic incident should get help if they have an unreasonable fear...but most adults do not. They will choose instead to simply hate the animals. Plenty of people learn to get over their phobias (though I was not originally speaking about anything as dramatic as phobias), and they learn that their fears are unfounded.

And I am also speaking purely about adults. Of course a child may be afraid of something for absolutely no reason at all other than it seems scary to them. But it does matter when you are talking about adults who SHOULD be able to assess an incident and realize that not all dogs of a particular breed (or even dogs in general) are horrible monsters bent on ripping your face off. Or, you know, something less dramatic than that haha. But still...an unreasonable fear...

[ReadingIndigo]

The computer, car, slipper, and balloon are all inanimate objects. They're rather predictable. Horses, obviously are alive, but most people wear safety equipment when riding. Very few people wear safety equipment when playing with a dog.

Yes, but my point is that people who are like this just simmer in their hate for a breed and they don't do anything to try and overcome it. It's just like any prejudice, baised and all it does is spread more misunderstanding and fear. And it should matter that most dogs are nice...that's the whole point. But when you take a fear and use that as an excuse for violent and or unnecessary behavior, like Ostwyn pointed out in those examples, it becomes an issue.

I'm not trying to say it's an excuse for violence. But your definition of unecessary may be different than mine. Violence is unneccessary. Fear is not. That being said, I do think therapy is an excellent idea for people with trauma.

It should matter that dogs are nice, but it doesn't. I was helping my grandmother at a museum children's program, and I met a kid with zoophobia. He was on the verge of tears at the sight of the chickens. They were doing absolutely nothing to him. Not looking at him, approaching him, or even showing knowledge of any kind of his existence.

But this is exactly my point. People who have had traumatic incident should get help if they have an unreasonable fear...but most adults do not. They will choose instead to simply hate the animals. Plenty of people learn to get over their phobias (though I was not originally speaking about anything as dramatic as phobias), and they learn that their fears are unfounded.

And I am also speaking purely about adults. Of course a child may be afraid of something for absolutely no reason at all other than it seems scary to them. But it does matter when you are talking about adults who SHOULD be able to assess an incident and realize that not all dogs of a particular breed (or even dogs in general) are horrible monsters bent on ripping your face off. Or, you know, something less dramatic than that haha. But still...an unreasonable fear...

Ah, okay. I get you now. I thought you meant anybody with trauma. It seemed a bit insensitive to me to say that children should just "get over" unreasonable fears. But I see now that is not the case in any way, shape or, form.I fully agree that adults should get therapy. They need to possess a different level of independence than children.

[Jazi]

The computer, car, slipper, and balloon are all inanimate objects. They're rather predictable. Horses, obviously are alive, but most people wear safety equipment when riding. Very few people wear safety equipment when playing with a dog.

I wear no safety equipment when riding, aside from my riding clothes and boots. A t-shirt, straight-legged jeans, and riding boots hardly count as safety equipment. I ride for pleasure, not as a profession and certainly not anything fancy, and I haven't in a while (oh I will walk like a penguin), but never once a helmet or padding. My "safety net" when I was a beginner were my legs for English, and the horn for Western. I don't know if other beginners are taught differently (probably are), but that's been my experience. I've come and gone into horse riding with no more safety equipment than when I go into dog training.

There is honestly no reason to allow your phobia to get to the point where you try to bash a leashed, neutral dog's head in with your lawn chair just for sitting close to you. There's no reason to try to ram a cart into a dog that is ignoring you just because you're afraid. There is no reason to slate ALL of anything as bad because of one traumatic experience. And this is coming from someone who was attacked multiple times by different breeds of different sizes.

[IAmLink]

Ah, okay. I get you now. I thought you meant anybody with trauma. It seemed a bit insensitive to me to say that children should just "get over" unreasonable fears. But I see now that is not the case in any way, shape or, form.I fully agree that adults should get therapy. They need to possess a different level of independence than children.

Not at all haha. Of course I don't expect children to learn to "get over" having being bitten and/or attacked by a dog. I meant people who have been attacked as a child...but are now adults and choose to just hate and fear dogs or breeds of dogs without getting any help to realize that their fears are a bit extreme and/or unfounded. Or, as in my earlier example with the woman and her boyfriend that were going to adopt our Dane, the people who don't even give their feared dog or dogs a chance to see that they are not all bad.

[ReadingIndigo]

There is honestly no reason to allow your phobia to get to the point where you try to bash a leashed, neutral dog's head in with your lawn chair just for sitting close to you. There's no reason to try to ram a cart into a dog that is ignoring you just because you're afraid. There is no reason to slate ALL of anything as bad because of one traumatic experience. And this is coming from someone who was attacked multiple times by different breeds of different sizes.

Is this just a general point or is this a response to one of my statements? I really don't mean to sound rude .-. Sorry.

I wear no safety equipment when riding, aside from my riding clothes and boots. A t-shirt, straight-legged jeans, and riding boots hardly count as safety equipment. I ride for pleasure, not as a profession and certainly not anything fancy, and I haven't in a while (oh I will walk like a penguin), but never once a helmet or padding. My "safety net" when I was a beginner were my legs for English, and the horn for Western. I don't know if other beginners are taught differently (probably are), but that's been my experience. I've come and gone into horse riding with no more safety equipment than when I go into dog training.

Maybe I'm just sheltered or something. .-. I don't mean to sound mean or anything, I just always thought it was extremely unsafe to ride without things like helmets. My family has always worn safety equipment. But that could be because of the horse related/ general injuries that are common in my family.

[Jazi]

Just a general point on allowing phobias in adults to reach violent levels :B Like I said, nothing annoys me more than the "but I'm afraaaaaaid" excuse. If someone is so afraid of dogs that they have to actively attack every dog they see, they should probably get help. I don't really feel like pandering to that sort of ridiculousness while my dogs learn that strangers will try to hit them for no reason.

It might also be a different attitude where I am. I'm surrounded by Amish farmers and a lot of times it's "brush yourself off and get back on!" if something does happen xD I also have yet to fall off, though I've come close, but some of the people working with the horses have been bitten, stepped on, bucked off, etc. No one around here really does the helmet thing, whether or not that makes any sort of difference in injuries and deaths, who knows. No one from that stable has cracked their head against the ground either, so it's not very testable since being bitten and stepped on usually doesn't have anything to do with the helmet you have on

[Dakonic]

Any dog over 50lbs is capable of killing or at least seriously maiming your average human. An adult male might take a 60-70lb dog to bring down. Bans and permits on all dog breeds medium-sized and up, then?

I still think ALL dogs should require a permit to handle, not just SOME.

I think if we really started to work on educating the public, and cracked down on bad breeders dog bites would greatly decrease
I say this because a permit to own is unrealistic as far as a chance of being implemented.


Also for fun, misidentifications
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articl ... rongId.htm

[Imzadi83]

This is from http://blessthebullys.wordpress.com/alternatives-to-bsl/ regarding education..."Research shows that just 1 hour of dog safety training in grades 2 and 3 can reduce these attacks by 80%. The city of Calgary, Canada, which has by far the most effective animal control ordinance (with the statistics to prove it), spends a considerable amount of money, time and effort on dog safety public awareness and education campaigns"

@ReadingIndigo yes computers, cars, slippers, and balloons are all inanimate objects. And they are predicitable and yet people who've driven drunk and killed people are allowed to retain their liscenses, parents let their children play unsurpervised with balloons and marbles which results in more deaths then those involving dogs. People don't check to see if the babysitter they're leaving their child with is reputable, knows CPR and first aid, etc. And yet people still act as if a Pit Bull that is owned responsibily and never bothered anyone or broken any law is a ticking time bomb and must be destroyed. I do realize you're not for bans but many people are and many Pit Bull owners & supports are treated unkindly and unjustly becuse people believe media hype over facts. I always horseback ride with a helmet though I don't fault those that do not. And if there were a large amount of people being killed by horses my first thought would be to see why this was happening (are the horses misused or mishandled, did people get a horse that was too much for them, etc) and fix that, not saying well they were mostly Arabians or Quarter Horses or whatever so lets get rid of that kind of horse.

[SonrienteMuerte]

OK, Here is an Absolutely positively winning arguement, and this just happened a few hours ago.

OK, so before anything happens, I want you all to know I do not hate or discrimate anything, not even dogs...

So I was walking Daisy, my sweet little boxer home from a walk and there was a pit bull walking around outside its fence. I immediantly thought it was the one that we had problems with before, but wasn;t 100% on it, so I tried to sneak my dog across the road adn up to the house. Well the other dog turned around and ran up to us, didn't do anything to me, in fact practically ignored me, but instead attempted to attack Daisy, who was frightened beyond her wits, because she is scared of dogs that she doesn;t know. I immediantly try to gently pull Daisy away from the dog, who is trying to bite her. Now this dog looked as if she had just had puppies so I am pretty sure she thought Daisy was out to hurt them or something, and I do not blme the dog for any of this. So Daisy is trying to get away from the dog, and I'm trying to help her, short of getting between her and the other dog because I didn't want to be bit. I was so tempted to pull out my phone and call my parents, and that thought kept running through my mind, quickly followeed by, no my parents would hear me yelling and come out (Since I was right in front of my house and all.) but no, they didn't/ Instead the owner comes out and calls his dog over, who is still trying to bite Daisy. Doesn't ask if I'm ok, he just calls his dog over to him. I'm thinking "Wow... Don't worry, I wont be reporting you or anything." Which I wouldn't be, I don't care for cops. So once I have Daisy almost into the house, though she is terrified and fighting me, thinking I was going to hold her there for the dog to attack (I was holding her leash so that way she wouldn't run and influence the dog to chase her or run out into main streat and get hit by a car (My house is right on the corner of a main street and a school street.) So she was terrified of me at that moment) the owner yells out (and he had yet to leave his porch and help me or anything.) that he was sorry. Sorry for what? For me having to try and get my dog away from his dog, or for not coming to help me or the fact that my dog could have been killed? Who knows, I waved him off, thinking what a jerk he was. For I, being only a teenager, and him being atleast 30 somethign, and way bigger then me, and obviously knowing his dog could be dangerous, was the one handling the attack.

Now this is my little rant, not about dogs. But about their owners. The owners make or break these dogs. Worst part of the story? This guy had a fenced in backyard but let his dog wonder. -_- My dogs are kept in the FENCED in backyard or on a leash at all times, and when they are outside without a leash in the front yard, we are out there with them. No, this other dog was outside, without a leash, outside a fence, and no owner in sight. I so wish I had called the cops for negligence for that poor dog. but then the dog could possibly be put down. And I didn't want that. Mostly since it wasn;t her fault, but the owners.

My dog did absolutely nothing wrong. Nor did the pitbull . It was the owner completely. And don't try blaming this on me. I noticed the dog a little to late because it was on the side of the house, which I could not see. The moment I saw it, I was trying to get my dog across the street. If there is anything wrong with that, please tell me, because I would love to know how there is a problem with walking my dog, who loves people and dogs alike (once she has met them, and when she hasn't met them, is terrified of them) on a leash, on the sidewalk, and across a street to get to my house.