Cat Chat (please go to cat chat 2)

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Re: Cat Chat

Postby .galaxy. » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:13 pm

:) Hey, I was here talking with The Lost Soul and Saracirce yesterday about my cats Nefarious and Sugar. You asked me to keep you posted, and I'm here doing just that.

So I tried what you both said last night for Nefarious(Played with him for 15 minutes, fed, etc), and I kept the dogs away from him the dogs away from him the entire day, even separated him and Sugar(for fear she's in heat) and you were right! He was so much more calm and docile. He was such a sweetheart all day. He'd sleep on my lap for about an hour, then get up, eat, and play around a bit, and then repeat that cycle. I was so relieved! His playing was still a little rough- but it's to be expected from a male kitten. I'm so glad!! My mom even agreed to mirror my money to get Sugar fixed- I only have to raise $15 now! I switched the cats out- one was in my room while the other roamed the house.

When Sugar was in my room, she instantly took her spot at the end of my bed- as usual. She was tense. It might have been Nefarious' scent, I'm not sure. But eventually she calmed down enough to actually purr when I petted her. She hasn't purred in weeks! Again, I was so relieved! You both have no idea how glad I was when both of my cats started acting like their old selves again! I honestly can't thank you enough!!

I'll make sure to keep you posted in case anything happens. Again, thank you so much!
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Re: Cat Chat

Postby .galaxy. » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:18 pm

:D I can completely agree.
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Re: Cat Chat

Postby Saracirce » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:23 pm

That's awesome, Nepeta. I'm glad it's working out for you. Hopefully, everything will continue working out and you can have all of them co-habituating peacefully.
"Only ignorance! Only ignorance! How can you talk about only ignorance? Don't you know that it is the worst thing in the world, next to wickedness? - and which does the most mischief, heaven only knows. If people can say 'Oh! I did not know, I did not mean any harm,' they think it is all right."
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Re: Cat Chat

Postby The Lost soul » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:02 pm

Yep. Yep, yep and yep.

and tell Nefarious to keep it cool with the ladies.

Now... just gotta hope the money comes together....
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Re: Cat Chat

Postby blazesong » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:16 pm

i need to get a cat carrier ,with the fire season i realy think i need another we have 2 at the moment and 5 animals that need one

the rabbit could always be in a box so that just makes it 4. the cats.

at this time we could take all 4 but it would be very hard. the girls can go in the red cage(i call carriers cages) as they are both half the size of the boys they can fit and move if need be, then the black and white boy could go in the blue cage , the last one the tabby can go on lead ,he is not trained but will take it

speeking of fire prep ,i have also set a tub of dog food aside for the cats if it happens , i know its dog food but the dog food would be quicker to grab in the event

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Re: Cat Chat

Postby The Lost soul » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:32 pm

Mm. Fire...

Florida has more hurricanes or huge storms... fires are usually controlled burns for us. Must be terrifying to have a fire threaten your home and life.

I hope things go smoothly and you don't need to use that escape plan of yours.
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Re: Cat Chat

Postby ♡ A l l y C a t ♡ » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:42 pm

I actually had to evacuate my home from a fire that happened here. (Rim Fire- California if you want to search it.) The fire was 2 miles from my home. We were able to stay at my grandmother's until it was safe. I had to stay in a little room with my two cats because they scare easily.

It's always smart and safe to have an evacuation plan for your pets. I had to put my two cats in the same carrier, they're always calmer together. I had to put a sheet over it because if they saw their surroundings they'd instantly freak out. When I was in the car I set their carrier on my lap with the gate part facing towards me. I lifted the blanket just on that portion so my cats could see just me. The whole ride Peanut would reach her paw out to touch me just so she'd have some physical contact with me. My sister just held her cat in a blanket because she doesn't do well in carriers.

Needless to say it was stressful and scary for all of us.
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Re: Cat Chat

Postby blazesong » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:05 pm

luckerly nothing near but there was one in my state and on the news they showed people looking for there cats so it got me thinking about it so i want to be ready, being there are 6 pets and 5 people if somthing where to happen being ready would help, i know if it where i could worry about the pets more now as i have the basics for me ready to go and most of there's

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Re: Cat Chat

Postby Saracirce » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:16 pm

The Lost soul wrote:I know, that's why I say it's common behavior to puff up. Animals react differently depending on the animal, which makes each animal unique in ways, even if one cannot see them.

The diverting fear to aggression usually(usually, not always) takes a while, and doesn't start off immediately as aggression. It starts out as avoidance, fear, and stress, then they sooner or later feel like they can't just avoid it and if given a certain situation, lash out. This is rarer, and is extremely bad behavior. I wouldn't tolerate one second of it and I would let the cat know with a yell or a tap on the nose/paw/whatever. Now, if the cat seems upset, I will try to give it attention and make meeting new things a positive experience. Without the positive and the negative, it doesn't work very well. The combination helps a ton.

Our dog Miya started to lean in that direction(it usually takes a while for the animal to avert to that, it's not a sudden decision but a gradual move into it, 75% of the time. Maybe a cat suddenly had a epiphany and snapped into it immediately). I made sure she stopped and knew that behavior was not acceptable and welcoming behavior would be rewarded. Nips would be served a growl or glare.(Yes I growl at my dogs) Fixed her right up. Now she depends on me and looks up to me for comfort and guidance. She stopped nipping and is slowly coming out of her shell.. though it takes a while because she was born so timid and shy.(I'm talking about a dog in a cat forum... I need to get off this subject XD)

Anyways... I can understand. It could be one or the other... but it seems like a sudden revolt wouldn't come from that area, but it's not impossible, and could be the case. These things cannot be rushed to a conclusion. We must wait for Fuzzy to bring back info on what happened. Maybe then we can learn more about him and what's going on.

I hopes it's an easy, fulfilling fix and they can soon have their pets living in harmony. I'd hate to hear if all this was for nothing. That would be a huge bummer... and I'd probably flip a table and hunt Milo down myself to give him a death glare and ask him 'HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL'. Like some idiot therapist. XD Nah, I wouldn't do that... but therapists nowadays? Yeesh!


I shall now wait for Fuzzy's findings and results.


I didn't answer earlier because I'm feeling really blah right now but...

I'm just going to clarify that I don't think Milo just jumped to fear aggression. I think his signals to Misty to back off and attempts to distance himself from her weren't working. He got frustrated. Maybe his back was hurting. When she put her paw on him, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe they pulled the two apart and that made Milo learn that if he acts aggressively, the scary dog goes away. (Not that I'm saying it was wrong to pull them apart or that it wasn't the right thing to do. It probably would've been but learning that aggression makes the scary thing go away could've been an unfortunate side effect.) Maybe there were other situations that happened just like this that reinforced it in Milo. Fuzzy never actually said how Misty acted when they tried to introduce her to Milo those other times or what she was doing before Milo attacked.

Yes, aggression is an inappropriate behavior but I strongly believe that correcting aggression (telling the animal no, yelling at it, or anything of the like) is wrong. It can serve to take away the animal's warning signs (for dogs that's growling and such) and make their feelings towards the scary thing worse. I would rather have a dog that was scared of just about everything but told me clearly that they were then a dog who was afraid of just one thing and would jump to biting instead of giving me warning. One of the reasons I advocate positive reinforcement so passionately is because I made my dog, Lolita, so much worse by using corrections on her fear aggression. I was just a kid and I didn't know any better but I still feel horrible about it. I strongly believe that using positive methods will work most of the time if done properly even if it's more time consuming and will make the animal more confident with less chance of regression and your bond stronger.
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Re: Cat Chat

Postby The Lost soul » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:37 pm

I don't yell the signs out of my dogs, but I don't blame you for thinking that. People assume things.

I have been trying to write this out for a while now, and nothing seems to fit how I train my dogs, and how I read when they aren't okay in that area, with that person, with that dog, in that position, being touched there...

You see... it's so complicated, that if I did try to explain it, it would just be words... but I guess that's the only way to go. I'll try and make it short and quick so we can both spend out time doing better things.

My dog Sadie will growl and bark at people from the window. I go over, see, and then tell her to hush(not in a yell, that will come off across as aggressive and condescending. Calm voice only.) and I pet her, telling her I am fine with this, and she can stop sounding the alarm. That usually signals to her 'it's okay'. I use my dog Miya's signals to conquer her fear to help her. I am trying to help her get more confident, but with dogs born with anxiety, it's not easy to change how they were born, especially with anxiety. It takes time and a guiding hand. People often mistake the signs for bad behavior, and punish those. I punish the reaction, but I enjoy a sign from them. If one of my dogs looks uncomfortable, I try to see why, and show them it's okay.

It's a hard, and complicated process, but it does wonders. It does what positive reinforcement can rarely do. The messages you show and tell your dog are important. You have to think about how the punishment will translate to them, how they will react, why they did it, what made this happen. You can't go rushing blindly into it or you end up ruining your dog, which happens with inexperienced trainers. I don't mind you using positive reinforcements with your dogs. It's fine for certain dogs, but with others, it isn't as effective.

We got rescues that had issues positive reinforcement would not fix alone. These people who gave the dogs up had tried nearly every training tip they could think of, and had come to the conclusion that the dogs could not be helped. Now... I have them. I have a protective mutt who watches out for our cats, and doesn't mind if I wrestle with her a bit. I have a doberman who has taken leaps and bounds from peeing on the floor and nipping people, and now begs for attention and rarely ever gets anxiety attacks, let alone a weak stomach anymore.

To be honest... you can have whatever training you want, but when it comes to dogs I train, I do as much as I can with watching them to custom-make training for them. This helps the dog, but isn't to be tried on all dogs. I don't think positive training is bad, nor do I think negative training is good. A ratio of both makes a good behaviorist. One should never lean to one or the other, but reside unbiased on the outside and see what is best, not what is recommended by the majority. I am still learning new tricks, new points and ideas. I'll never stop changing points of view, training tips... It's a growing process. You learn and you change. You don't just see what you're taught, but what goes around you. It's something that drives people mad because I change view pretty quickly, but not on all things, which confuses people cause I'm a middle-person. Not too much to the right or left of something... mixed views and stuff.

That small summary still took a long time, but eh... a intellectual response does take a lot.

Now, I'm off. I got 2 dogs I have to go cuddle with, a kitten to laugh at, a love bug to pet, and well... sleep to be had.

G'night. Have a wonderful day...whatever... I am closing up shop.
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