Why We Need Animal Testing

[brinazarski]

I am SEVERELY against animal testing for cosmetic purposes. However, I'm less against animal testing if it is for the benefit of everyone.

I can't understand how anyone can see us as better than animals, or any form of life. I see us as equals. A few months ago, this stray who lingers around our house gave birth to two kittens. One disappeared, the other remained. I was worried about him, I could tell that he would die soon. No one believed me. I did everything to keep him alive... he died a week after his birth. I found the poor baby frozen under a tree, his mouth open, taking his last cry. I cried the whole day, maybe two days. I still cry when I think about it, I'm tearing up right now. I only knew him for a week but I loved him so much, I still do, but he's gone now. My grandpa had never seen me lose a pet, my grandparents didn't understand... my grandpa said cried as if I'd lost a fellow human being.

I still get upset when thinking of other cats who died YEARS ago. Because, guess what? They're my family, too. Of course we're not going to cry if someone animal dies. Why should we? It's as if we were crying over the child on the news, reported to be shot by some crazed criminal. A child we do not know. Many people hear about deaths on the news, and do not shed a single tear. They have no relation to the person. They might feel a little bad, but they'll forget about it soon, because that person meant nothing to them.

Just because a human means nothing to someone, doesn't give us the right to kill them. Just because an animal means nothing to someone, doesn't give us the right to kill them.

Personally, I think we should test on criminals. Not like thieves, but TERRIBLE criminals, like rapists and murderers. We should also have humans who volunteer to be tested on, or humans that'll agree if paid to be tested on. If we find animals who are ill, test on them to make them better. Maybe test on the older ones, who have already lived life. But when you do test, treat them with as much respect and kindness and love that is possible when testing and animal. Do all you can to remove as much pain as possible.

To be honest, I do eat meat. It's partial force, and partial because I feel meat is a necessity to an extent. When I'm older, I plan on only eating meat about once a month, and I will try to find the most humane sources of meat.

I try to treat everything and everyone with kindness. I have a reputation for restraining myself from harming bugs. There have been times when I've caught flies, and thrown them out the window, letting them be free and alive, instead of swatting them with a fly swatter. I won't lie, there are times when I do kill, but I try not to.

I think it's okay to harm or kill in self-defense, or when the killing has some sort of benefit to us. For example, a lion must kill in order to survive. He benefits from the kill. If we must harm or kill, let us do it in benefit, and humanely. To be honest, I plan on becoming a medical researcher when I'm older. I'm aware that I might be testing on animals, and this will probably induce many tears. As long as I'm helping, and trying to be as kind as possible, hopefully I'll find cures, and this research will be necessary no more.

Just a few years ago, I wrote how severely I was against ALL forms of animal testing, and I sided with PETA. I've come to see they're extremists, can be so idiotic sometimes, and they're hypocrites. I support SOME of what they do, but not all. They've gotten worse.

[zboe]

zboe, I have a question for you. When does that stop being true? It might be easier to say that humans and horses are equal, but when does it turn into humans and sponges are equal? Or humans and single cell bacteria are equal? Humans kill millions of things like that every day. What about humans and mosquitoes? They are also alive. Saying that anything that is alive is equal to a human makes everyone mass murderers.

Yes they are alive they are much simpler life forms yes but they still have a life. Yes Im pretty sure everyone has killed something.
Predators and disease are population control designed by nature we may not be a predator of a sponge or protist or mosquitoes. But we still kill them we still have stepped on a bug but a lion or elephant or dog has too. But do they do tests on them in labs no, just because the bug that got stepped on was smaller and had less impact doesn't make its life any less valuable to it.
Everything alive values its life as much as we value ours yes I am saying sponges and protists and mosquitoes and ants they are all working to live because their life means something to them. Yes everyone has killed more I know Ive crushed a mosquito and I know Ive stepped on an ant. But Ive never gone out of my way to do it when I crush the mosquito its a reaction when I stepped on an ant I wasnt paying attention.
Our size and our brain does no make our lives more valuable than other living creatures.

EDIT @brinazarski Yes I agree completely that if the animal is already sick naturally with whatever then its okay to treat them to try to help make them better but not inject them with the sickness its just not right to take a healthy animal and force them to be sick life threatening or not.

[Umbrellas]

zboe, I have a question for you. When does that stop being true? It might be easier to say that humans and horses are equal, but when does it turn into humans and sponges are equal? Or humans and single cell bacteria are equal? Humans kill millions of things like that every day. What about humans and mosquitoes? They are also alive. Saying that anything that is alive is equal to a human makes everyone mass murderers.

Yes they are alive they are much simpler life forms yes but they still have a life. Yes Im pretty sure everyone has killed something.
Predators and disease are population control designed by nature we may not be a predator of a sponge or protist or mosquitoes. But we still kill them we still have stepped on a bug but a lion or elephant or dog has too. But do they do tests on them in labs no, just because the bug that got stepped on was smaller and had less impact doesn't make its life any less valuable to it.
Everything alive values its life as much as we value ours yes I am saying sponges and protists and mosquitoes and ants they are all working to live because their life means something to them. Yes everyone has killed more I know Ive crushed a mosquito and I know Ive stepped on an ant. But Ive never gone out of my way to do it when I crush the mosquito its a reaction when I stepped on an ant I wasnt paying attention.
Our size and our brain does no make our lives more valuable than other living creatures.

EDIT @brinazarski Yes I agree completely that if the animal is already sick naturally with whatever then its okay to treat them to try to help make them better but not inject them with the sickness its just not right to take a healthy animal and force them to be sick life threatening or not.

Are you saying that an animal who cannot think or make choices - such as a single cell bacteria - believes that their life means something? And so you believe that if it's between a mosquito and a human being to die, you could just flip a coin and be equally devastated by either outcome? Because mosquito's death = human's death?

Honestly, you're not being "against animal welfare" by saying you value human's lives more.

[Rolly-chan]

Everything alive values its life as much as we value ours yes I am saying sponges and protists and mosquitoes and ants they are all working to live because their life means something to them.

No. Ants and mosquitoes and most animals do not value their lives as much as humans do. They do not have self-awareness and they try to survive purely on instinct. Humans DO value their lives more than those animals. Their (the animals') life means nothing to them because they do not have such thoughts. They don't really have any thoughts. The thinking process and self-awareness is due to specific workings of our brains. Most animals do not have them. Animals such as fish and some amphibians do not even really see (as in consciously - it's like they're blind only that they can still respond to their environment).

I'm not saying that you should value their lives less than that of humans. But saying that ants and mosquitoes (or single cell organisms) value their own lives is plain wrong.

[zboe]

Im not saying I value a their lives more than I value a humans Im saying that they do value their lives they have a purpose and something they are going to do to survive.
A fox chews of his/her leg to escape a trap are you telling me that fox didn't think I have to get away from this or I will die. I sure doubt that a foxes instincts tell him/her what to do when caught in a bear trap.
Nothing wants to die even single celled organisms that is what I thoroughly believe lets say perhaps a protist doesn't value their life the same we do that doesn't mean it wants to die every living thing is here to live as long as they can they do not wan to die.
Watch some animal planet you will learn quite a lot.
Starving cheetah with four cubs has failed her last hunting trip and this is her last chance to get food to save herself and her cubs.
There are two antelope
Closer antelope would seem easier to catch after all its only a few strides away however there are some rocks and debris she would have to get around to get to it decreasing the chances to catch it.
Farther antelope is much farther away but is a clean shot.
Now if she survived purely on instinct and had no awareness I would think she would try for the closer antelope but she took the rocks and debris into consideration and chose the farther antelope, she came away with a a kill that saves her and her cubs for another day.
This is very true and happened they had video of it on I predator on animal planet.
I consider that very clear decision making
To me that shows that she wanted to live and chose the option that she thought she would be most victorious with.
They respond to their environment they are responding to survive if they didn't care or value their lives their reaction wouldn't be so clear. Instinct is there to help animals survive and keep their lives.
As I said before nothing wants to die.
I wouldn't be depressed if a mosquito died after all some have died at my hand I know I have felt bad about it but just because I don't cry and get extremely upset about that mosquito's lost life doesn't mean that mosquito wanted to die.

[Rolly-chan]

First off... I never said that you valued animals more than humans. That must have been a misunderstanding ^^°
I just wanted you to know that I don't demand of you to value humans more than animals.

Of course a fox would try to get away from a trap. It hurts. Who wouldn't scratch and bite at it? Honestly, that's not thinking. That's purely reacting to a negative stimulus. Even if it gets the fox so that it doesn't hurt - the fox can't move away from there, so of course it will react to that restriction.
Yes, I am saying that it didn't think "I have to get away". The fox thought nothing. It tried to get away from the pain/restriction. Simple as that.
Do you know about that nice thing inside our brain that's called amygdala? That's the very thing that controls emotions like fear. If a stimulus appears that could mean danger, it activates and makes us feel anxious and nervous. Animals and humans alike. Only that humans have the addition that they can think about it (apes maybe too, and some other animals like some birds (which scientists have now found out could be even smarter than apes)). Without other structures of our brain we wouldn't be able to understand that we feel fear. That comprehension isn't universal, it's not in every living being.
Animals act on that fear. They flee or they attack (or they freeze). You should also look up "Fight-or-Flight(-or-Freeze)-Response". It's not an act of thinking.

And the cheetah? Well, have you heard something about puzzle boxes? Look that up, too. Most animals learn from experience. Trial and error. They don't decide (learning in the sense of building cognitive structures that allow them to facilitate behaviour that gets them advantages and weakens behaviour that gets them disadvantages). Chimpanzees and other intelligent apes do, as do raven birds like magpies. But others? Nope.
My point was that not all animals value their lives. They do not have that consciousness. They just don't. Especially organisms without brains.

[zboe]

(That part was more to twisted queen I tend to combine my replies ^-^ )
The fox wants to get away its afraid and in pain and I'm pretty sure they know that if they stay there they will die, instinct may be the main force driving the animals actions but I cant believe that there aren't thoughts behind it.
Trial and error shows to me the cheetah is learning what is bets to keep herself and her cubs alive. She didn't immediately decide which to go for she waited looked at each for a few minutes before deciding which to go for I really believe she was thinking.
Perhaps the one cells organisms are different from mammals birds reptile and some fish. But If we look at animals in labs they are monkeys rats dogs cats and I know they are thinking and value their lives. Ive had dogs all my life as well as cats and I also have many birds a snake a rooster and horses. I know they all value their lives and I know my friends mouse does I know it. I can see their eyes thinking and the one thing that completely spelled it out for me was when one of my grandmas dogs got hit by a car and broke her spine we were at the vet with her and I remember her eyes as she watched the vets (there was a vet and two interns) and her ears perking up as the vet talked to my grandma she was trying to understand what was going on with her and why her back legs wouldn't work. And we didn't put her to sleep we kept her alive until well died on her own
After that experience there is nothing that will change me belief they all value their lives and have emotions.
I understand what your saying about things such as protist and maybe sponges and jellyfish perhaps they dont but every animal with a brain I feel completely that they do.

[Smoogiepie]

I believe all living things with feelings should be treated equally. Things considered to have no feelings, however, should still be treated with respect. Animals have shaped the world; we aren't just living on Earth, we're a part of it.

Also, people are animals.

[Grimace]

All animals have feelings

I'm pretty sure sponges don't have feelings.

[plum]

Smoogie, you're saying the bacteria on your fingers deserves respect. That's a bit.. ridiculous in my eyes. I'm not respecting the stuff that can get me sick just because it's alive.

I've already said this, but I am fine for animal testing for medical purposes, or similar. Not cosmetic. I also think I am the superior species, because of the things I am capable of doing. A lab rat cannot make a computer, although people, well, some people, can.
I also value my life more than, say, a rat's.