animal rights vs animal welfare

[virtualpet]

Rex: I'm definitely more for animal welfare.

Humans are animals too, and that means that humans eat (and are eaten by) other animals, and humans also have the skillset to use parts of the animal for tools, clothes, etc. Humans are also important for keeping certain populations under control, such as fish or deer. Animal sources are also often more ethical than other kinds, many vegan alternatives use unethical human labor and clothes are better for the environment because they actually decompose. Things like breeding can also be important in some species, as it gets rid of certain qualities that could be more harmful to the animal, such as the current attempts to rude the breathing and other physical issues with pugs.

Animal welfare also covers that animals shouldn't be abused or harmed, so it should go without saying that by saying I support animal welfare I am against animals in poor conditions or hunting animals that are endangered. I also feel like the food and clothing we use should be ethically sourced, although of course I'm not going to put people down who don't have that luxury, but I will call for better accessibility and use.

Animal rights also often neglects the fact that many animals are domesticated. They can't survive in the wild, either because they don't have the instincts or they would cause serious harm to the environment around them. Sheep need to be sheared, horses need human care, cats could easily destroy the ecosystem, etc. It also can lead to people being harmed, as there are many groups that rely on hunting for their food and some people may need service animals or rely on animals for companionship (which is a very real need in humans).

[Ancient Frost]

I like your point about the fact that many domesticated animals could not be released into the wild. Many people miss that. No one can fully predict the effects they would have bt in the past we have underestimated the impact of introduced species. Releasing all domesticated animals is essentially introducing new species because they are so far removed from their natural ancestors.

[alfiq]

ah, animal rights vs animal welfare. i can say i have a lot of thoughts on the topic as someone who works closely with animals. i personally think animal right activists start out meaning well and in response to how harmful and broke industrial agriculture is, but get caught up in a lot of misinformation regarding animal husbandry and turn to extremism. i've also seen them targeting small scale farms that take great care of their animals, launching harassment campaigns against farms to the point where they shut down. (basically eliminating competition for industrial farms, which leads to lower welfare standards)

i'm however very much in the belief animal agriculture needs reforming; it needs a big focus on animal welfare, especially things like enrichment and taking the steps to minimize climate emissions as much as possible. and i think the best way to promote animal welfare in livestock is knowing where your meat and animal products come from, buy local if you can, visit farms. they're more often than not happy to show you around! support people who are engaged in their stock's welfare.
(the same goes for pets, know where they come from before you buy or adopt, some 'rescues' have a tendency of buying puppy mill dogs and charging outrageous adoption fees.)

i live where theres tons of farms, i've seen my 80+ year old neighbour hike up in the forests at 10pm because he heard one of his ewes calling for her lamb. and i've seen how much the local dairyfarmer loves her cows and makes sure they have plenty of outdoors time. i wholeheartedly believe most farmers love their animals, but of course, sadly there are also the ones who don't and need to be pushed out with better standards and regulations.

i keep horses and dogs right now and i intend to start raising chickens, maybe more animals like sheep or goats if i have the time. and it would be for eggs, meat, wool etc. but i dont really see it as 'exploitation', more of a partnership. i provide shelter, safety, food, comfort and enrichment(nothing of which is guaranteed in the wild) and get eggs, milk etc in return. my horses don't hate work or being ridden, they're happy to do it and theres many ways to make it enjoyable for them.

tldr: big fan of animal welfare, animal rights? not so much

[magnapinna]

ah, animal rights vs animal welfare. i can say i have a lot of thoughts on the topic as someone who works closely with animals. i personally think animal right activists start out meaning well and in response to how harmful and broke industrial agriculture is, but get caught up in a lot of misinformation regarding animal husbandry and turn to extremism. i've also seen them targeting small scale farms that take great care of their animals, launching harassment campaigns against farms to the point where they shut down. (basically eliminating competition for industrial farms, which leads to lower welfare standards)

i'm however very much in the belief animal agriculture needs reforming; it needs a big focus on animal welfare, especially things like enrichment and taking the steps to minimize climate emissions as much as possible. and i think the best way to promote animal welfare in livestock is knowing where your meat and animal products come from, buy local if you can, visit farms. they're more often than not happy to show you around! support people who are engaged in their stock's welfare.
(the same goes for pets, know where they come from before you buy or adopt, some 'rescues' have a tendency of buying puppy mill dogs and charging outrageous adoption fees.)

i live where theres tons of farms, i've seen my 80+ year old neighbour hike up in the forests at 10pm because he heard one of his ewes calling for her lamb. and i've seen how much the local dairyfarmer loves her cows and makes sure they have plenty of outdoors time. i wholeheartedly believe most farmers love their animals, but of course, sadly there are also the ones who don't and need to be pushed out with better standards and regulations.

i keep horses and dogs right now and i intend to start raising chickens, maybe more animals like sheep or goats if i have the time. and it would be for eggs, meat, wool etc. but i dont really see it as 'exploitation', more of a partnership. i provide shelter, safety, food, comfort and enrichment(nothing of which is guaranteed in the wild) and get eggs, milk etc in return. my horses don't hate work or being ridden, they're happy to do it and theres many ways to make it enjoyable for them.

tldr: big fan of animal welfare, animal rights? not so much

big agree.

[DeathFlameWolf]

I’m all for Welfare they don’t got far give piles of propaganda or make ridiculous claims.
They aren’t against Zoos, eating animals, pets or using animals.

RIghts on the other hand are against many if not all things we do with animals! As for PETA they are the worst of all, nasty hypocritical.

Howz darez youz!you are DISGUSTANG

[minimire]

I’m all for Welfare they don’t got far give piles of propaganda or make ridiculous claims.
They aren’t against Zoos, eating animals, pets or using animals.

RIghts on the other hand are against many if not all things we do with animals! As for PETA they are the worst of all, nasty hypocritical.

so you are not against the exploitation of animals?

[косатка]

I am in favor of animal welfare. What humans and many animals have is a type of symbiotic relationship, often times a mutualistic one. Of course us humans can be parasitic, but anyone in favor of animal welfare would be against cruel practices. Animal rights is against any relationship, even if it is mutualistic. A world where we don't have this relationship with animals would be a very sad world.

I’m all for Welfare they don’t got far give piles of propaganda or make ridiculous claims.
They aren’t against Zoos, eating animals, pets or using animals.

RIghts on the other hand are against many if not all things we do with animals! As for PETA they are the worst of all, nasty hypocritical.

so you are not against the exploitation of animals?

None of what was mentioned is inherently exploitative. Animals can be kept humanely in zoos, farms, as pets, etc.
However, if you are to argue that the mere use of animals in any situation is "exploitation" than yes I support animal exploitation. Ya got me. But to say that doesn't make the use of animals seem wrong, it makes the term seem weak.

[minimire]

I am in favor of animal welfare. What humans and many animals have is a type of symbiotic relationship, often times a mutualistic one. Of course us humans can be parasitic, but anyone in favor of animal welfare would be against cruel practices. Animal rights is against any relationship, even if it is mutualistic. A world where we don't have this relationship with animals would be a very sad world.

I’m all for Welfare they don’t got far give piles of propaganda or make ridiculous claims.
They aren’t against Zoos, eating animals, pets or using animals.

RIghts on the other hand are against many if not all things we do with animals! As for PETA they are the worst of all, nasty hypocritical.

so you are not against the exploitation of animals?

None of what was mentioned is inherently exploitative. Animals can be kept humanely in zoos, farms, as pets, etc.
However, if you are to argue that the mere use of animals in any situation is "exploitation" than yes I support animal exploitation. Ya got me. But to say that doesn't make the use of animals seem wrong, it makes the term seem weak.

exploitation is the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work. animals in factory farms are being exploited. they are abused and tortured because of our greed and then slaughtered once they are no longer profitable.

how are factory farms a symbiotic relationship between livestock and humans? How do the animals benefit from factory farms? or animal circuses?

when we talk about animal rights, we are talking about their right to live. their basic right to live.

[косатка]

exploitation is the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work. animals in factory farms are being exploited. they are abused and tortured because of our greed and then slaughtered once they are no longer profitable.

how are factory farms a symbiotic relationship between livestock and humans? How do the animals benefit from factory farms? or animal circuses?

when we talk about animal rights, we are talking about their right to live. their basic right to live.

I stated I support animal welfare. How did you come to the conclusion that I support factory farming? No one here does.

Animals can't have the right to live. Animals eat other animals. We can't condemn a wolf for eating a deer, no matter how much you believe in that deer's "right to live". Does the deer's right to live suddenly disappear when a wolf attacks? Sometimes the population of certain animals may need to be reduced, or invasive species eradicated. And some people fail to thrive without meat. Giving animals a "right to live" can't work.

I plan to raise reindeer, rabbits, and chickens someday in my future. I will give them food, water, shelter, play, love, and safety. They will provide me with eggs, antlers, milk... and yes, occasionally meat and hide, but I will make sure they have a wonderful life worth living before their time comes. Call that what you will.

[PARK]

the fact that anyone automatically jumps to "factory farming" when farms are brought up is like... laughable. you're really reaching.

anyway, yeah, factory farms are terrible. the beef and leather industry are horrid. factory pig farms are some of the most unethical livestock businesses. but they're not the only types of farms? small(er) family farms also exist and the animals are usually very well taken care of because otherwise, they won't produce goods and the family won't make money to live off of. they can't afford to have unhealthy livestock like factory farms can. the relationship is mutually beneficial.

i don't support (the majority of) zoos. they claim to be all about rehabilitation and release, but very few actually release their animals into the wild. with minimal personal human contact, there's no reason an animal which has been held in captivity for a time can't be released. unfortunately, zoos are money pits and only care about bringing humans in to gawk at and interact with the animals.

i also hate seaworld and any other place that keeps cetaceans captive. they absolutely cannot thrive and be happy, ever, in captivity. i'll talk about orcas specifically, but this goes for all cetaceans (orcas, dolphins, porpoises, whales), and seals and sea lions. in the wild, orcas' lifespans are anywhere from 30-80 years old. the average age of death of orcas at seaworld is 14. not to mention they often house different subspecies together which is stressful and severely dangerous because they do not speak the same language! and, the only reported attacks on humans by orcas have been in captivity. they refuse to release their orcas because they claim that they wouldn't survive in the wild. but they're wild animals to their core. their instincts are very strong. they would make it; seaworld just wants to make money.

obviously wild animals should never be pets, and people who care for injured wild animals for a while until they can be released should never handle them more than necessary. wild animals should remain wary of humans, for the animals' safety and for the public's safety. but domestic pets love being pets. dogs were specifically bred to love people, and could never survive in the wild. house cats have low survivability in the wild and cause massive damage to the ecosystem. please for the love of god, keep your cats indoors! they'll be plenty happy if you give them the stimulation they need every day!

so yeah, i'm for animal welfare. animal rights is stupid for a lot of reasons. human rights and animal rights can't coexist. here's a really important example that's overlooked far too much:

native people who rely on hunting animals to survive, uh, need to hunt animals to survive? so let's throw "nobody is allowed to kill animals anymore because all animals have the right to live" into this situation. actual human beings, entire communities and populations are going to starve to death. where are their rights? they don't have any, because their source of food and shelter and clothing has been taken away. it's incredibly stupid. use your brain.