animal rights vs animal welfare

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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby legumeZ » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:43 am

I'm for animal rights, not animal welfare. I understand that a lot of people don't see animals as I do and opinions will always vary when it comes to ethics.. but imo people shouldn't be able to have opinions concerning the lives of others. It doesn't matter if you think you're racist, ableist or specieist. Nobody should get to dictate how others should live or how others should die. Sorry if my language is kinda strong. I'm just very passionate about this subject.

So yes, this means that I think horseback riding is wrong, keeping pets is wrong, eating animals is wrong and using service animals is wrong. I know a lot of people (even vegans) don't want to touch the service animal subject because it involves disabled people, but I will: if you use a service animal, you don't care about animals as individuals.

You might have the same type of condescending love someone may have for a pet, but by having a service animal you're saying "I don't care about your freedom, I don't care about your own desires, I only care about what you can do for me" because actions speak louder than words. You are castrating an animal, manipulating it into doing what you want it to do and otherwise taking advantage of it because you decided you were more important.

Why not have 'service children' while we're at it? Make them eunuchs, then 'train' them to do tasks for you. It's okay though. The child is less intelligent than you are and he doesn't understand what he's missing out on and can't comprehend that he's being manipulated and used. You are more important so it's OK and anyway, you give him chocolate for his efforts and take him swimming sometimes.
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby pizzas and scream » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:51 pm

legumeZ wrote:I'm for animal rights, not animal welfare. I understand that a lot of people don't see animals as I do and opinions will always vary when it comes to ethics.. but imo people shouldn't be able to have opinions concerning the lives of others. It doesn't matter if you think you're racist, ableist or specieist. Nobody should get to dictate how others should live or how others should die. Sorry if my language is kinda strong. I'm just very passionate about this subject.

So yes, this means that I think horseback riding is wrong, keeping pets is wrong, eating animals is wrong and using service animals is wrong. I know a lot of people (even vegans) don't want to touch the service animal subject because it involves disabled people, but I will: if you use a service animal, you don't care about animals as individuals.

You might have the same type of condescending love someone may have for a pet, but by having a service animal you're saying "I don't care about your freedom, I don't care about your own desires, I only care about what you can do for me" because actions speak louder than words. You are castrating an animal, manipulating it into doing what you want it to do and otherwise taking advantage of it because you decided you were more important.

Why not have 'service children' while we're at it? Make them eunuchs, then 'train' them to do tasks for you. It's okay though. The child is less intelligent than you are and he doesn't understand what he's missing out on and can't comprehend that he's being manipulated and used. You are more important so it's OK and anyway, you give him chocolate for his efforts and take him swimming sometimes.


So, will you go into nursing/ aid training, to be a service human, so an animal won't have to? Sacrifice your life and future to help them, in such ways that the human you help will not feel like they are Infantalized? A person who needs to be taken care of like a child may feel hopeless, and being a good person means saying everyone has a right to pride, honor, self worth and independence. At the sacrifice of beasts. But this is a great thing about your way of thinking. To have do-gooders make it sound like a dog has more right to freedom and making children than the disabled. Then again I think Peter Singer ( or was it Falcone?) said something about aborting the fetuses of severely disabled children.





At least you are admitting it, and thank you for doing so, although there is always Poe's law. I try to tell people animal rights people like that exist, but they tell me nobody is like that, and I must of gotten those facts from Fox News or the likes.

I like it when do gooders have a bit of bad, but is is also sad in that you cannot save or protect them all, and shows that adding animal issues to intersectional feminism is laughabley futile.

People who do the good for the animals, people who say how to b good, doing everything for the animals first. It makes it look like I can be a terrible person and it is ok, because I can point others in their direction, find the worst of the best and the best of the worst. So what if I use ableist slurs as insults? Someone out there is fighting a good fight for those who need help more than someone who'll spazz out because the heard a cartoon character call another an "idiot".


All of this is fantastic in its twistedness, because any other groups get called names for wrong thinking. But when it is said " for the animals" it almost makes it ok.

When animal rights trump human rights. The utopia begins.
Last edited by pizzas and scream on Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby neverknowsbest » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:54 pm

legumeZ wrote:I'm for animal rights, not animal welfare. I understand that a lot of people don't see animals as I do and opinions will always vary when it comes to ethics.. but imo people shouldn't be able to have opinions concerning the lives of others. It doesn't matter if you think you're racist, ableist or specieist. Nobody should get to dictate how others should live or how others should die. Sorry if my language is kinda strong. I'm just very passionate about this subject.

So yes, this means that I think horseback riding is wrong, keeping pets is wrong, eating animals is wrong and using service animals is wrong. I know a lot of people (even vegans) don't want to touch the service animal subject because it involves disabled people, but I will: if you use a service animal, you don't care about animals as individuals.

You might have the same type of condescending love someone may have for a pet, but by having a service animal you're saying "I don't care about your freedom, I don't care about your own desires, I only care about what you can do for me" because actions speak louder than words. You are castrating an animal, manipulating it into doing what you want it to do and otherwise taking advantage of it because you decided you were more important.

Why not have 'service children' while we're at it? Make them eunuchs, then 'train' them to do tasks for you. It's okay though. The child is less intelligent than you are and he doesn't understand what he's missing out on and can't comprehend that he's being manipulated and used. You are more important so it's OK and anyway, you give him chocolate for his efforts and take him swimming sometimes.

This is so delusional and it genuinely makes me laugh. I'm sorry that your life is so pitiful. Get well soon, love! xoxo
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby pizzas and scream » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:18 pm

luvbug. wrote:
legumeZ wrote:I'm for animal rights, not animal welfare. I understand that a lot of people don't see animals as I do and opinions will always vary when it comes to ethics.. but imo people shouldn't be able to have opinions concerning the lives of others. It doesn't matter if you think you're racist, ableist or specieist. Nobody should get to dictate how others should live or how others should die. Sorry if my language is kinda strong. I'm just very passionate about this subject.

So yes, this means that I think horseback riding is wrong, keeping pets is wrong, eating animals is wrong and using service animals is wrong. I know a lot of people (even vegans) don't want to touch the service animal subject because it involves disabled people, but I will: if you use a service animal, you don't care about animals as individuals.

You might have the same type of condescending love someone may have for a pet, but by having a service animal you're saying "I don't care about your freedom, I don't care about your own desires, I only care about what you can do for me" because actions speak louder than words. You are castrating an animal, manipulating it into doing what you want it to do and otherwise taking advantage of it because you decided you were more important.

Why not have 'service children' while we're at it? Make them eunuchs, then 'train' them to do tasks for you. It's okay though. The child is less intelligent than you are and he doesn't understand what he's missing out on and can't comprehend that he's being manipulated and used. You are more important so it's OK and anyway, you give him chocolate for his efforts and take him swimming sometimes.

This is so delusional and it genuinely makes me laugh. I'm sorry that your life is so pitiful. Get well soon, love! xoxo


I think their posts bait. It is hard to respectfully disagree with it
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby valyri » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:05 am

legumeZ wrote:I'm for animal rights, not animal welfare. I understand that a lot of people don't see animals as I do and opinions will always vary when it comes to ethics.. but imo people shouldn't be able to have opinions concerning the lives of others. It doesn't matter if you think you're racist, ableist or specieist. Nobody should get to dictate how others should live or how others should die. Sorry if my language is kinda strong. I'm just very passionate about this subject.

So yes, this means that I think horseback riding is wrong, keeping pets is wrong, eating animals is wrong and using service animals is wrong. I know a lot of people (even vegans) don't want to touch the service animal subject because it involves disabled people, but I will: if you use a service animal, you don't care about animals as individuals.

You might have the same type of condescending love someone may have for a pet, but by having a service animal you're saying "I don't care about your freedom, I don't care about your own desires, I only care about what you can do for me" because actions speak louder than words. You are castrating an animal, manipulating it into doing what you want it to do and otherwise taking advantage of it because you decided you were more important.

Why not have 'service children' while we're at it? Make them eunuchs, then 'train' them to do tasks for you. It's okay though. The child is less intelligent than you are and he doesn't understand what he's missing out on and can't comprehend that he's being manipulated and used. You are more important so it's OK and anyway, you give him chocolate for his efforts and take him swimming sometimes.


How can you support animal rights but not animal welfare? Animal welfare is about giving the animals what they need, like a suitable diet, accommodation and the ability to show normal behaviour of that species, for example. So, I simply don't understand how you can't be for animal welfare?

As for castration/neutering animals, I think it is very important for domesticated animals that will not be bred, in order to keep the population under control. Animals that aren't neutered breed like crazy if given the chance and that results in so many animals being out on the streets, getting ill, getting killed etc. I work at a cat rescue centre and the amount of feral kittens and mommas coming in is heartbreaking. Farmers try to drown feral kittens because of the overpopulation. There's an almost constant stream of kittens from such backgrounds because someone didn't neuter their cat. One of my cats we adopted was from an accidental litter and the only reason he ended up in a rescue centre was because the owners couldn't/didn't want to take care of a bunch of kittens.

Similar things happen with other animals. Sorry, I'm quite passionate about neutering animals because I feel that it is important to prevent more animals from ending up in terrible situations. I get that on the surface it sounds like breach of animal rights but I think that we can't completely fulfil the criteria of animal rights but we *can* prevent more breaches of animal welfare by stopping animals from overbreeding and putting themselves and their offspring in danger.

I never truly understood being against having pets. I kind of understand it if I take a huge step back and squint a bit but we have already domesticated the animals we have as pets. I'm not sure how you can make any change for the better by not having animals as pets in the world we live in at the moment. It doesn't make sense to me. If we lived in a utopia then, yeah, maybe animals could live without humans and be alright on their own without our involvement. But as of right now... not likely.

Hopefully most of this made sense. I'm quite tired :lol: I won't talk about the service animals because I don't have one and I know that, for the people that do have service animals, they are very important and I'm not well-educated on the subject (but if I were, I'd probably disagree). Have a good day, nonetheless.
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby legumeZ » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:55 pm

So basically I'm wrong because emotions and "but humans tho"
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby Star_Bun » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:44 am

You’re wrong because you have a fundamental misunderstanding on how humans and animals positively react together. Animals have different thought processes than humans, that’s a fact and not emotions or opinions. We provide free food, warmth, housing, healthcare, and most importantly love to pets and expect nothing in return. Us humans don’t have pets for selfish reasons like you’re saying. Domestic animals and humans seek each other out for comfort. Service animals get treated with the upmost respect and love for their handlers and aren’t working 24/7 and they enjoy working, sometimes animals instinctively are able to be a service animal without any training. An animal desires to be with us. The love people have for their pets or service animals is unique and not condescending. I believe you e never had an animal love you and I’m sorry you’ve never experienced that magical connection












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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby zero.two » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:38 am

legumeZ wrote:I'm for animal rights, not animal welfare. I understand that a lot of people don't see animals as I do and opinions will always vary when it comes to ethics.. but imo people shouldn't be able to have opinions concerning the lives of others. It doesn't matter if you think you're racist, ableist or specieist. Nobody should get to dictate how others should live or how others should die. Sorry if my language is kinda strong. I'm just very passionate about this subject.

So yes, this means that I think horseback riding is wrong, keeping pets is wrong, eating animals is wrong and using service animals is wrong. I know a lot of people (even vegans) don't want to touch the service animal subject because it involves disabled people, but I will: if you use a service animal, you don't care about animals as individuals.

You might have the same type of condescending love someone may have for a pet, but by having a service animal you're saying "I don't care about your freedom, I don't care about your own desires, I only care about what you can do for me" because actions speak louder than words. You are castrating an animal, manipulating it into doing what you want it to do and otherwise taking advantage of it because you decided you were more important.

Why not have 'service children' while we're at it? Make them eunuchs, then 'train' them to do tasks for you. It's okay though. The child is less intelligent than you are and he doesn't understand what he's missing out on and can't comprehend that he's being manipulated and used. You are more important so it's OK and anyway, you give him chocolate for his efforts and take him swimming sometimes.


    I was honestly kind of baffled reading this..

    My mom and I train and raise purebred Australian shepherds. Two of them so far have grown up to be AMAZING service dogs, and seem to love doing it. One of them was sent to a women who couldn't even leave the house because of her anxiety, and the puppy we gave her to love and nurture grew into an animal she felt comfortable and safe around. It took a lot of training and practice, but because that dog came into her life, she's able to go out and live her life without crippling anxiety. Another one of these puppies still lives with us, and helps alert my mom of her panic attacks and helps her through them. Let me just tell you, we didn't even train him to do this.. he just decided on his own that he wanted to protect his person. If the dogs didn't want to become service dogs, I'm quite sure they wouldn't..

    You seem to think that the dog is forced and brainwashed into becoming a helper for their human, but I can say with confidence that they love what they do, and are happy to help their owners.
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby magnapinna » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:08 am

legumeZ wrote:I'm for animal rights, not animal welfare. I understand that a lot of people don't see animals as I do and opinions will always vary when it comes to ethics.. but imo people shouldn't be able to have opinions concerning the lives of others. It doesn't matter if you think you're racist, ableist or specieist. Nobody should get to dictate how others should live or how others should die. Sorry if my language is kinda strong. I'm just very passionate about this subject.

So yes, this means that I think horseback riding is wrong, keeping pets is wrong, eating animals is wrong and using service animals is wrong. I know a lot of people (even vegans) don't want to touch the service animal subject because it involves disabled people, but I will: if you use a service animal, you don't care about animals as individuals.

You might have the same type of condescending love someone may have for a pet, but by having a service animal you're saying "I don't care about your freedom, I don't care about your own desires, I only care about what you can do for me" because actions speak louder than words. You are castrating an animal, manipulating it into doing what you want it to do and otherwise taking advantage of it because you decided you were more important.

Why not have 'service children' while we're at it? Make them eunuchs, then 'train' them to do tasks for you. It's okay though. The child is less intelligent than you are and he doesn't understand what he's missing out on and can't comprehend that he's being manipulated and used. You are more important so it's OK and anyway, you give him chocolate for his efforts and take him swimming sometimes.

say sikes or get out

by your logic, i guess that we should let cats uncastrated and let them reproduce and make more native fauna suffer for our mistakes of not castrating cats.

by your logic, you should release your goldfish into a pond and make the native fauna suffer more because goldfish can grow to large sizes and outnumber native fish.

by your logic, forget having pet dogs. service dogs is proven to not have anything against working. they get all the love they want and in return the owner gives the dog the love they need and the needed resources if the dog ever would be sick.
service dogs are trained to do work.
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Re: animal rights vs animal welfare

Postby Ancient Frost » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:36 am

I am more for animal welfare. The earth is designed so all of it interacts in a balanced way. Saying humans shouldn't use animals in any way, especially for food, will hurt the ecosystem. Animals all over the world eat other animals. It is population control. Yes, humans have some problems upholding their side of the balance.

We definitely need to crack down on puppy mills and such but pets are not bad. We give them safety and love. I had a dog and she was the most loving dog ever. She genuinely appreciated being around my family. We know this because we left the door open all the time and she never ran away. Occasionally she would bolt out after a squirrel but she always came back of her own free will.

Now let's address the meat and fur industry. I have a small meat rabbit operation. They have 12 square foot hutches(3x4) and are 2 feet high. I keep them very clean and they have unlimited hay and water. I limit pellets to keep them at a healthy weight. (If you have any further questions about how I treat them feel free to ask.) I use cervical dislocation which kills them in less then 2 seconds. I have never had a problem with a rabbit surviving it. Humans are omnivores so we are designed to eat meat and plants. The problem comes when we over hunt. That is part of why raising animals is best. I am still doing research so I haven't tanned hides yet but I will.
I don't want to waste anything. Animals in the fur industy are used for other things as well so it doesn't go to waste. Animals in the fur industry are very well cared for. They have to be because when an animal lives in bad, stessful conditions the fur is the first thing to go out the window. Fake furs are made of plastic which is very bad for the environment. Fur decomposes very quickly.

This is my oppinion on the matter. Feel free to ask me questions about it.
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