Dog Owner Chat V. 5

[Barnes&Rogers]

i don't think i've posted here before, but it seems like a valuable resource lol

a little over a year ago, i adopted a belgian malinois cross from my local shelter. she was so gentle on the lead, and we only realised about two weeks after taking her home, that she had only been so gentle and calm because she'd just been neutered, and still had stitches. she's very well behaved out on walks, but as soon as she sees a cat or dog, she goes mental trying to get to them. her tail is always wagging though, and if she gets to say hello, she calms down straight away. its not ideal to have her lunging and jumping and pulling on the lead though, and its really difficult to communicate with her when she gets that over-excited. we've started a new style of training, but its not quite as effective as i was hoping.

i've been looking into socialisation and training, and i was wondering if anyone had any information on head-collars? i've heard they're really good, but i don't want to just go ahead without any info. any help is appreciated

I personally do not like head collars, they can cause injury if your dog continues to pull while on them over time or acute injury if your dog suddenly pulls or you have to pull them away from something. Also they are not a substitute for leash training, as many dogs will walk on a loose leash while using a head collar but will pull when off of it.

I would recommend training your dog to walk on a loose leash. If you need help because of how powerfully your dog pulls I would recommend a front clip harness to give you some added leverage until your dog is better behaved. They have ones that are just a front clip and ones that are both back and front depending on what your needs/wants are.

Remember to practice training in calm environments, like your living room. Also since your dog wants to greet other animals use that as a reward, if she pulls you walk away from the other animal, if she walks on a loose leash you can let her greet them (provided the other animal's owner and the animal are okay with your dog saying hello). Never allow her to greet another animal while she's pulling as you're only reinforcing the pulling behavior.

Here are some videos to help you out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ&list=PL7287C737FB745168 - there should be a whole playlist here of loose leash walking videos.

thanks for the advice. i definitely don't want to substitute a head-collar for leash training. i thought that it might aid us in her training, but she actually walks loose lead extremely well until she sees another animal. she also walks very well off-leash (again 'til we see another animal) we only have the problems then, so would training her around another dog be a good idea, or would that just make it worse?

most owners see our dog pulling on the leash, and speed up/cross the road. a lot of them sneer and look at us as if we've got a rabid badger on the leash instead of an over-excited dog. we've met very few dog owners who are okay with us letting her say hello, which is a shame. and there are no dog parks to go to either. :/

and i appreciate the links to the videos, however i have watched them before, as well as zak george, and i have followed the instructions as best i can/taken the advice and tried to apply it to how my dog acts, but it doesn't seem to be helping with my pupper. i might try watching them again though, and maybe start with even smaller steps, like you suggested with the living room training.

[Marley.&.Me]

These are my friends dogs

Kujo (label was “pit mix”)


Binkx a purebred Pomeranian, Picture taken by me

[taurus ;]

I would suggest a prong collar. Great training tool and awesome for clear communication between dog and handler. They aren’t mean, cruel, or abusive if used correctly.

[Barnes&Rogers]

I would suggest a prong collar. Great training tool and awesome for clear communication between dog and handler. They aren’t mean, cruel, or abusive if used correctly.

we use a pinch half-martingale collar, which works really well, but even it isn't enough. (its much better than a flat collar, especially with her level of pulling) would it be best to keep trying on our own, or would getting an outside trainer to help be the best course of action?

[eleutheromania]

I told my parents and they again said ( its too late...) She needs help and the picture I will try and get because I am on a laptop and camera quality is VERY bad

It’s never too late to get a dog’s teeth cleaned. Maybe doing research and showing your parents may get them to change their mind? If not, you can just do what you can and brush her teeth etc with dog friendly toothpaste.

[Imzadi83]

i don't think i've posted here before, but it seems like a valuable resource lol

a little over a year ago, i adopted a belgian malinois cross from my local shelter. she was so gentle on the lead, and we only realised about two weeks after taking her home, that she had only been so gentle and calm because she'd just been neutered, and still had stitches. she's very well behaved out on walks, but as soon as she sees a cat or dog, she goes mental trying to get to them. her tail is always wagging though, and if she gets to say hello, she calms down straight away. its not ideal to have her lunging and jumping and pulling on the lead though, and its really difficult to communicate with her when she gets that over-excited. we've started a new style of training, but its not quite as effective as i was hoping.

i've been looking into socialisation and training, and i was wondering if anyone had any information on head-collars? i've heard they're really good, but i don't want to just go ahead without any info. any help is appreciated

I personally do not like head collars, they can cause injury if your dog continues to pull while on them over time or acute injury if your dog suddenly pulls or you have to pull them away from something. Also they are not a substitute for leash training, as many dogs will walk on a loose leash while using a head collar but will pull when off of it.

I would recommend training your dog to walk on a loose leash. If you need help because of how powerfully your dog pulls I would recommend a front clip harness to give you some added leverage until your dog is better behaved. They have ones that are just a front clip and ones that are both back and front depending on what your needs/wants are.

Remember to practice training in calm environments, like your living room. Also since your dog wants to greet other animals use that as a reward, if she pulls you walk away from the other animal, if she walks on a loose leash you can let her greet them (provided the other animal's owner and the animal are okay with your dog saying hello). Never allow her to greet another animal while she's pulling as you're only reinforcing the pulling behavior.

Here are some videos to help you out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ&list=PL7287C737FB745168 - there should be a whole playlist here of loose leash walking videos.

thanks for the advice. i definitely don't want to substitute a head-collar for leash training. i thought that it might aid us in her training, but she actually walks loose lead extremely well until she sees another animal. she also walks very well off-leash (again 'til we see another animal) we only have the problems then, so would training her around another dog be a good idea, or would that just make it worse?

most owners see our dog pulling on the leash, and speed up/cross the road. a lot of them sneer and look at us as if we've got a rabid badger on the leash instead of an over-excited dog. we've met very few dog owners who are okay with us letting her say hello, which is a shame. and there are no dog parks to go to either.

and i appreciate the links to the videos, however i have watched them before, as well as zak george, and i have followed the instructions as best i can/taken the advice and tried to apply it to how my dog acts, but it doesn't seem to be helping with my pupper. i might try watching them again though, and maybe start with even smaller steps, like you suggested with the living room training.

In this case using another (calm & friendly) dog could be helpful. First however I would suggest working on your "let's go" cue for giving into leash pressure indoors. Dogs do not generalize well and you have to up the criteria slowly. If she can't leave a boring treat on the floor in the living room she's not ready to work with another dog present yet. Move onto higher value things indoors, then move outdoors (like your yard or other quiet area) with low value things for her to ignore, then higher value, etc.

When she is ready have the dog as far away as it takes for her to be calm, then work on her "let's go" and loose leash walking in large arcs around the other dog. Move closer slowly and if she reacts, move further away. I would not expect her to be able to walk calmly on a loose leash up to the other dog for at least several, if not many sessions. Sometimes you can let the dogs meet, sometimes don't so she learns she won't get to meet every dog, but never allow her to meet as long as she's pulling. That could mean turning to walk away before trying to approach again or it could mean calling it quits for the session.

Working with a professional trainer (positive reinforcement based) would be a great idea. They may have access to dogs and/or places to work that you do not. Also I would try to work out her energy before training sessions if you can so it is easier to focus on you.

Honestly I'd be one of those people giving you a dirty look as you passed too. Your dog is showing rude behavior to both dogs and humans and would terrify my dog and upset me having my 11lbs dog pulling and trying to get away and doing everything she can to tell the other dog that she's not a threat/not interested.

Just because your dog is friendly doesn't mean other dogs are, some are shy, some are aggressive, some may be old or sick, etc. For other owners who are training problem behaviors/building confidence, an encounter like this can be a big setback in training. Also for people afraid of dogs this can be upsetting to them as well. Even "friendly" dogs can and have injured people/dogs/other animals in the past.

I applaud you though for trying to get the behavior under control as sadly many owners just make excuses and let it continue or worse, encourage it.

You might also get her into some training classes/dog sports. Not only will it help her learn to keep calm around other dogs but it will give her a chance to socialize and maybe make a friend as well. Some dogs also focus better when the have a job to do such as carrying an empty back pack or sitting and looking at you while the other dog passes. You'll have to see what works best to manage your girl in the mean time.

Last but not least I highly recommend against using a prong collar or any type of correction based training in this instance. Some dogs learn to associate the correction with the outside stimulus and previously friendly dogs have become aggressive due to this. There's no way to know which dogs this will happen to, and corrections aren't necessary to training, so I wouldn't take the chance.

[Taiger Lilly]

...
Honestly I'd be one of those people giving you a dirty look as you passed too. Your dog is showing rude behavior to both dogs and humans and would terrify my dog and upset me having my 11lbs dog pulling and trying to get away and doing everything she can to tell the other dog that she's not a threat/not interested.
...

Ok but , glaring and giving dirty looks to people is a rude and aggressive behavior too. I find it very hypocritical that you would display that kind of of body language to someone. Positive reinforcement works for humans too! Why punish someone when they are obviously working to fix the situation? I just don't get it, especially when you are so adamant that others use only purely positive methods, which probably the most effective in the long run, also take quite a bit of time.

I'm not saying I don't get annoyed or that I don't cross the street to avoid dogs I see pulling. But unless the owner is letting their dog run right up onto you or not doing anything at all then I just don't see the need to be so rude? Just because they are at a different stage in their training than you are?

[Zeena]

I was just sent this ❤️ My little man ❤️❤️

-Removed-

[Barnes&Rogers]

I personally do not like head collars, they can cause injury if your dog continues to pull while on them over time or acute injury if your dog suddenly pulls or you have to pull them away from something. Also they are not a substitute for leash training, as many dogs will walk on a loose leash while using a head collar but will pull when off of it.

I would recommend training your dog to walk on a loose leash. If you need help because of how powerfully your dog pulls I would recommend a front clip harness to give you some added leverage until your dog is better behaved. They have ones that are just a front clip and ones that are both back and front depending on what your needs/wants are.

Remember to practice training in calm environments, like your living room. Also since your dog wants to greet other animals use that as a reward, if she pulls you walk away from the other animal, if she walks on a loose leash you can let her greet them (provided the other animal's owner and the animal are okay with your dog saying hello). Never allow her to greet another animal while she's pulling as you're only reinforcing the pulling behavior.

Here are some videos to help you out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ&list=PL7287C737FB745168 - there should be a whole playlist here of loose leash walking videos.

thanks for the advice. i definitely don't want to substitute a head-collar for leash training. i thought that it might aid us in her training, but she actually walks loose lead extremely well until she sees another animal. she also walks very well off-leash (again 'til we see another animal) we only have the problems then, so would training her around another dog be a good idea, or would that just make it worse?

most owners see our dog pulling on the leash, and speed up/cross the road. a lot of them sneer and look at us as if we've got a rabid badger on the leash instead of an over-excited dog. we've met very few dog owners who are okay with us letting her say hello, which is a shame. and there are no dog parks to go to either. :/

and i appreciate the links to the videos, however i have watched them before, as well as zak george, and i have followed the instructions as best i can/taken the advice and tried to apply it to how my dog acts, but it doesn't seem to be helping with my pupper. i might try watching them again though, and maybe start with even smaller steps, like you suggested with the living room training.

In this case using another (calm & friendly) dog could be helpful. First however I would suggest working on your "let's go" cue for giving into leash pressure indoors. Dogs do not generalize well and you have to up the criteria slowly. If she can't leave a boring treat on the floor in the living room she's not ready to work with another dog present yet. Move onto higher value things indoors, then move outdoors (like your yard or other quiet area) with low value things for her to ignore, then higher value, etc.

When she is ready have the dog as far away as it takes for her to be calm, then work on her "let's go" and loose leash walking in large arcs around the other dog. Move closer slowly and if she reacts, move further away. I would not expect her to be able to walk calmly on a loose leash up to the other dog for at least several, if not many sessions. Sometimes you can let the dogs meet, sometimes don't so she learns she won't get to meet every dog, but never allow her to meet as long as she's pulling. That could mean turning to walk away before trying to approach again or it could mean calling it quits for the session.

Working with a professional trainer (positive reinforcement based) would be a great idea. They may have access to dogs and/or places to work that you do not. Also I would try to work out her energy before training sessions if you can so it is easier to focus on you.

Honestly I'd be one of those people giving you a dirty look as you passed too. Your dog is showing rude behavior to both dogs and humans and would terrify my dog and upset me having my 11lbs dog pulling and trying to get away and doing everything she can to tell the other dog that she's not a threat/not interested.

Just because your dog is friendly doesn't mean other dogs are, some are shy, some are aggressive, some may be old or sick, etc. For other owners who are training problem behaviors/building confidence, an encounter like this can be a big setback in training. Also for people afraid of dogs this can be upsetting to them as well. Even "friendly" dogs can and have injured people/dogs/other animals in the past.

I applaud you though for trying to get the behavior under control as sadly many owners just make excuses and let it continue or worse, encourage it.

You might also get her into some training classes/dog sports. Not only will it help her learn to keep calm around other dogs but it will give her a chance to socialize and maybe make a friend as well. Some dogs also focus better when the have a job to do such as carrying an empty back pack or sitting and looking at you while the other dog passes. You'll have to see what works best to manage your girl in the mean time.

Last but not least I highly recommend against using a prong collar or any type of correction based training in this instance. Some dogs learn to associate the correction with the outside stimulus and previously friendly dogs have become aggressive due to this. There's no way to know which dogs this will happen to, and corrections aren't necessary to training, so I wouldn't take the chance.

thanks again for the advice, though i believe that corrections are needed for training (as long as they are mixed well with positive reinforcement and praise, as a balance is the best way imo). i have looked into the pinch collar we use, and it is definitely the safest option for our dog and her behaviour, but thank you for your take, its always nice to hear other peoples thoughts so that i can adjust my own opinions based on new info.

we used to go to training classes, but she was quite unhappy at them, and was often not willing to participate. one day we had to lift her out of the car because she was too anxious at the sight of the place to get out, and there are no dog sport classes anywhere near us, though i'd love to.

i think i'll start looking into a mixed positive/correction trainer who can give me a hand. i'll be avoiding using an e-collar as my dog didn't really care about it, and just ignored it completely, but hopefully i can find a trainer who understands what we're hoping to achieve and will work with me instead of ordering me around (i've had a different trainer do that and it was hell for my dog and i).

i definitely agree that not all dogs are friendly, and that some people and their dogs can be scared of other dogs. we've occasionally passed people who are terrified of her (though she has no interest in people unless they initiate the interaction). we always keep her away from people or dogs who do not want to be near her, and we block her from their view as best we can if they need to pass closer to us. she is always in our control when near other dogs, as i understand how scary a big dog can be, especially when excited (i used to be terrified of my aunts dog when i was younger, but i learned, thankfully, that they were actually very gentle and would calm down if you were calm)

i don't believe passing dirty looks a good thing to do in the slightest. even though there are many dog owners whose dogs act up because they don't really care, often times people will cast dirty looks at owners, such as me, who are working really hard on eradicating the bad behaviours, and being looked down on by people who believe their dogs are better behaved just makes my job more difficult and makes me feel awful and like i should just give up. there have been so many occasions where people (like you, based on what you've told me) who have seen my dog pulling, and have glared or sneered, and i've literally cried when i returned home because i felt like i'd failed as a dog owner because there was a small hitch in her training. please, if you can, don't pass dirty looks at people if their dogs aren't at the same level as your dog in things like pulling on the leash, because for all you know, they could be trying so hard to get their dog trained. i'm sorry for my little rant here, i've got low self-esteem when it comes to training my dog because she's my first dog, and i've only had her a year, yet a lot of people have judged me on how i've chosen to train her based on research, when they a) don't know me, and b) have no info on dog training. and hearing that someone would cast a dirty look at someone when i've experienced it first-hand just makes me feel uncomfortable there have been a few very nice people who have just kept walking, or even smiled when we apologised for my pupper which i've really appreciated.

she has a solid leave it inside, and won't even touch chunks of roast chicken when they're touching her nose unless she's told she can, but maybe applying the same methods of training i used to teach her that would help, if instead of food, i used another, calm, dog. and thanks for the advice on how to do that, i really appreciate that. i'll also try and get her leave it to the same level outside as it is inside.

also, i'd appreciate if someone else could give me some advice, as i'm feeling a little uncomfortable with some of the advice, and some of the comments (partially because i've had someone close to me say stuff like that and make me feel so awful for months because of it. thank you, and sorry if i seem too sensitive.

[drift.]

-snip-
she has a solid leave it inside, and won't even touch chunks of roast chicken when they're touching her nose unless she's told she can, but maybe applying the same methods of training i used to teach her that would help, if instead of food, i used another, calm, dog. and thanks for the advice on how to do that, i really appreciate that. i'll also try and get her leave it to the same level outside as it is inside.

also, i'd appreciate if someone else could give me some advice, as i'm feeling a little uncomfortable with some of the advice, and some of the comments (partially because i've had someone close to me say stuff like that and make me feel so awful for months because of it. thank you, and sorry if i seem too sensitive.[/list][/list][/size]

Teaching her to react immediately to your leave it outside will help you out tremendously. I also advise trying to teach her 'focus' or 'look at me'. Or something similar, of course. I've started Anthem on "Look at me" so his attention has to be peeled away from everything else and focus on my voice and hand signals. Your girl sounds like a smartie, so perhaps try this out?

I also use one of these on a German Shepherd I walk daily. She has a STRONG prey drive and will lunge after anything small. I'm using it only for training and I have this 'fabulous' fanny pack I keep a variety of her favorite treats in as motivation. Nineteen(the dog) usually pulls at the beginning of the walk, so I've started stopping where I am and make her sit as soon as she pulls. Once her butt hits the ground she gets a treat. Of course I can't do this once we're on an actual road because of obvious reasons; so I sharply tell her to 'wait' and as soon as the leash loosens I offer a treat and click my tongue (her owners want me to clicker train her because she goes through treats like there's no tomorrow)