Dog Owner Chat v2

[Saracirce]

Just reading about prong collars, do choker chains hurt? We use a choker chain when walking because Heidi has a tendency to jump out at trucks and motor bikes.

They're called choke chains for a reason. They literally choke the dog.

@Joe Kerr: remind me, is he motivated by food?

[.Middy.]

Oh baths... I hate bath day. Usually I put them in the outdoor kennel and spray the hose through the bars, then go in and soap them up before spraying again. Lately since my chickens have been in the kennel, I've just been keeping them inside so no need for baths!

We did give Princess a flea bath the other day, but luckily that passed without too much hassle. I tied her up to the post, then had my mom keep a hold on her while I bathed her. (We kept her tied to the post just in case she got away from my mom. Didn't want her running right back in the mud lol)

Tomorrow my stepdad and I will be fighting Chewie for his bath.... Who knows how we will get him to stay calm enough for his bath.

[Joe Kerr]

I haven't found anything that
Barnabas is motivated by when
he's stressed;
Food
Toys
Attention
are all out. He doesn't react
to any of them. Won't even
take the toys or food until
he is away from whatever
is stressing him. :/

[Skye Selkie]

Well I meant when she didn't pull.

We have quite a thick chain that is really loose and she usually doesn't pull until she sees a truck/bike.
We used the same choker for our old blue healer but he didn't pull ever

We are thinking of getting a harness but I have heard that they don't have much affect when the dog pulls.

Any suggestions about harnesses?

[Dakonic]

It looks like a prong collar, but it isn't one. It is actually so gentle you can put it on your arm, yank as hard as you can and it really doesn't hurt ( I did it to myself) Whereas prong collars are meant to hurt to correct the dog. I did my research before getting that collar, I hate prong collars and don't trust them. I did the same thing with a prong collar and put it on my arm and pulled and it gave me a giant bruise. If you order his video's and watch it Don Sullivan Explains more into detail. And actually a mother dog does grab the back of the neck ( the scruff) to correct her pups depending on what the pup does. Of course they do other things as well such as snap and bark and what not. And on the collar it isn't spikes, that drawing made it looks like spikes but there not. The spikes don't actually dig into the dogs skin like a prong collar would. It pulls the skin up in a way. If it hurts your dog then you are doing it wrong/ pulling WAY too hard. All I am saying is it works really well! Izzy doesn't use a leash anymore, comes when called and is probably the best trained dog I have ever had. I can take her to the store with me, tell her to lay down and stay outside. I go inside, shop and come back out and she is still there. She is only 11 months old, so I mean it works really well Clicker training works well, but due to the treats your dog won't always be reliable because if it doesn't get a treat it won't see the point in coming. This just helps them respect you more and stuff. I personally only suggest using this on dogs who are more difficult to train and don't take clicker training well. My other two dogs are just treat trained and are fine, but Izzy was a bit more difficult. It's all actually really interesting, like his theory and stuff and I would love to talk about it more!
Like I said, it's different than a prong collar, and only people who buy his video's will understand because they are not on youtube and he explains into detail how he designed them and stuff. I don't think he would hurt his dogs or sell a product that hurts other peoples dogs, so yeah

How exactly does it work if it doesn't hurt? Having to buy his videos just to be told how and why the collar works is kind of silly, don't you think? Also, I dare you to put it on your neck, have someone yank on it and tell me that doesn't hurt.

If you're dog will only do the behavior if he knows a treat is coming, you're not training him right. Simple as that. You're supposed to fade out the click and, therefore, the reward as the behavior becomes solid. You click and reward randomly so the dog never knows when he'll be rewarded.

Corrections are the last thing you should be using on a fearful dog. Let alone a puppy. I personally used Cesar Millan's tactics on my dog when we were younger (which, btw, he claims he doesn't hurt dogs) and all I managed to do was make her worse. She even started to become fear-aggressive towards me, her owner. I also found myself becoming more and more violent in general. I can't completely blame Cesar Milan on that one as I do have anger issues for other reasons (plus, I was a pre-teen and a teen) but there was definitely a correlation between my using his techniques and my anger at things in general. Thankfully, we've turned that around by now and repaired our relationship... for the most part. She still gets extremely anxious when I become angry and practically shuts down. We've also made some significant progress on her fear-aggression. Earlier this month, we had one of my mom's fiance's family members come up to visit us. Normally, Lolita would have been freaking the heck out the entire time and it would take MONTHS for her to get used to them. Loli met this person a total of three times over 6 days. The last time she met her, she voluntarily walked up to her, allowed her to pet her then CHOSE to walk away COMPLETELY ON HER OWN when she'd had enough.. Never in a million years did I think that would happen and it happened because she's +R only. And this is a dog that dominance trainers would describe as 'thinking she's the alpha' or 'dominant'. I guarantee you, if I were still using corrections on this dog, it would be a completely different story.

I'm not saying corrections don't work. They do. BUT they work for all the wrong reasons. Instead of teaching the dog what you want them to do is fun, you're teaching them 'you better do it or I'll hurt you'. Is that really the kind of relationship you want with your dog?

I must say, I have two of these "Dogfather correction collar" things. And yes. They do hurt. I have them as "What not to use" examples for training classes and such. Honestly, in ways they hurt worse than prongs.


And yes. Your dog WILL be reliable if you use treats correctly. You don't hang the treat out in front of you every time you call it. That's not training correctly. I've called my dog off of a deer, out of a scuffle, and off of a bite (in bitework) with my recall and it was 100% treat trained.

Also, being positive and being a clicker trainer does not mean you only use treats. You use whatever is rewarding to the dog and teach them that they can earn things through you. Want to go play with the other dogs? Do a few things for me first then I'll let you go. Want to sniff the bushes? Walk on a loose leash then I will.

My kiddo titled in Mondioring obedience. His training was totally reward based, not correctional, and you're not allowed to use any reward in competition besides a "Good boy" between exercises. Say something extra during the exercise and you get docked, even DQed. So yes, you can train a dog reliably with treats, and you can teach them to not rely on them.

[Dakonic]

I haven't found anything that
Barnabas is motivated by when
he's stressed;
Food
Toys
Attention
are all out. He doesn't react
to any of them. Won't even
take the toys or food until
he is away from whatever
is stressing him.

That's true for the majority of dogs, I'd say. He's overthreshold if he's not taking anything, so just work him under threshold (when he's farther away) and slowly work him closer and closer and his threshold line will gradually shrink. ^_^

Edit:
Does he get really excited at dinner time? I'd try holding his food, saying "bath!" and giving it to him immediately. Try to change the association, then maybe eventually start feeding him in the bathroom?
Or even try feeding him outside the bathroom a couple times, then feed him with the bathwater on slightly. But very gradually! Don't rush anything, just do it overtime

[Dakonic]

Just reading about prong collars, do choker chains hurt? We use a choker chain when walking because Heidi has a tendency to jump out at trucks and motor bikes.

They're called choke chains for a reason. They literally choke the dog.

@Joe Kerr: remind me, is he motivated by food?

Yup! And not to mention choke chains can do a lot of damage to the dogs throat, potentially collapsing the trachea even. Especially when lunging.

[Saracirce]

Well I meant when she didn't pull.

We have quite a thick chain that is really loose and she usually doesn't pull until she sees a truck/bike.
We used the same choker for our old blue healer but he didn't pull ever

We are thinking of getting a harness but I have heard that they don't have much affect when the dog pulls.

Any suggestions about harnesses?

I honestly don't care how often or how hard a dog pulls. I wouldn't use a choke chain on them unless it was literally the only collar I had and we absolutely had to take him somewhere. And, even then, I'd use the dead ring. The fact that your dog pulls at all and risks injuring herself like that means, to me, that you shouldn't use a choke on them. Heck, the fact your dog is epileptic means I wouldn't ever use even a flat collar on her. Especially because she pulls, even if only at certain times. Restricting even partial blood flow and oxygen to the brain of a dog who is prone to seizures is like playing Russian Roulette.

Harnesses aren't meant to prevent pulling. (well, okay, except front clip harnesses but I don't necessarily like those depending on their design and the age of the dog). They're meant to take the pressure off the neck and put it on their chest and shoulders instead. Hence why my dog, who starts spluttering when even slight pressure is applied to a collar, is only ever walked on a harness.

[Joe Kerr]

I haven't found anything that
Barnabas is motivated by when
he's stressed;
Food
Toys
Attention
are all out. He doesn't react
to any of them. Won't even
take the toys or food until
he is away from whatever
is stressing him. :/

That's true for the majority of dogs, I'd say. He's overthreshold if he's not taking anything, so just work him under threshold (when he's farther away) and slowly work him closer and closer and his threshold line will gradually shrink. ^_^

Edit:
Does he get really excited at dinner time? I'd try holding his food, saying "bath!" and giving it to him immediately. Try to change the association, then maybe eventually start feeding him in the bathroom?
Or even try feeding him outside the bathroom a couple times, then feed him with the bathwater on slightly. But very gradually! Don't rush anything, just do it overtime

He's such a strange dog.
He actually gets over stimulated to
the point that I have to kennel him
before I start preparing his food. But,
I can say 'bath' right before I give it
to him, that is actually a great idea!

Once we get these dratted fleas under
control, I'll start feeding him directly
outside the bathroom. He won't touch
his food IN the bathroom, but I'm hoping
he'll eat just outside the door.

[Jazi]

Ok, I need some advice.
I really want another dog but my parents don't.
Last year we had to put my other dog down, and my mom is still upset about it.

We have a dachshund and is around 12 years old, I love her so much but I want a dog to call my own.
So I just asked my parents how they would feel and my dad said we aren't getting one because he doesn't want to commit to one for 15 years. Though I'll be moving out in a few years so I would take the dog with me.

How could I convince my dad to get me the dog?

(Ah sorry if this isn't allowed here...if it's not please let me know and I'll delete it xc)

Okay since this is getting a little buried:

Don't apologize, your post is fine! However, do remember, if you are about to move out because you're a high school student getting ready to graduate... there is a very high possibility your parents will be keeping your dog after you leave. Why is that? Because it has become very hard to rent with a dog nowadays, and most landlords will tell you flat out no. Especially if you have any breed considered aggressive, or anything over 30-50lbs. Ask me how I know.

The only reason I can rent with my pup is because he is a service dog prospect. If he was not, I would not be allowed him. And they only allowed my cat because they have prior experience with me and know she does not destroy things or piss everywhere.

Keep that in mind when your parents tell you no. However, if you really really want more interactions with a dog in your house, why not bring up the idea of fostering a dog for a rescue? That way the dog avoids being put down due to lack of foster homes, you guys get to take care of the dog until it gets adopted, AND later on you may decide to adopt one of that rescue's dogs or you could use that rescue as a reference for dog-related things such as purchasing from a breeder or getting a reference that knows how you are with dogs for a landlord

Any tips?

Based on your posts, he is waaaay over threshold. Find his threshold first and then work him up to pushing it back. You may need to start with just making the bathroom a really fantastic place to be! You guys go in the bathroom and throw a party! Treats! Playtime! Lots of praise! And then after a few moments of this you're done for the day. And then you do it again. And again. And now bathrooms are great fun places. And you build him up from there, rather than trying to work with him when he is already at the point where he's shutting down.


Ahhhhhh she's teasing meeeeeee. She told me that my FB page needed an update and sent me a bunch of pictures, so have this one while I continue to coo at my screen. It's my little man with his derpy puppy ears. Here's the sibling owned by the person who kept urging me to inquire about him: https://www.facebook.com/RebholzerPromiseMeTheMoon