Dog Owner Chat! (for-fun poll added) (new chat)

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

@Lupen, it still makes me angry because you even can't say "a dog's SSA" you just have to target one breed, of course.

Edit: And fuzzy, would you stop acting like we agree with BSL and other forms of breed discrimination just because we accept the fact that certain breeds are genetically inclined to be a certain way? That we think a pit bulls DA warrants them to be killed? That an Akitas SSA makes them bad dogs?

It's really getting annoying.

Exactly this.

Fuzzy, I'm not flipping my crap because I want to ~protect the humans~.

I'm flipping my crap because I see people on here who are woefully ignorant of what it means to be a PoC. I'm black. I'm gay. I get all kinds of violence, death threats, rape threats. I've been beaten and bullied. I've been denied jobs and places to live. I've had my friends taken away from me by my parents. I've had people call me all kinds of things, dehumanize me, tell me I'm nothing more than a common housefly and that I should be wiped off the face of the earth. I'm flipping my crap because of what my family has gone through due to nothing more than the color of their skin, the hurts, the lies, the violence, the system in this country we live in that actively works against us. I'm flipping my crap because real humans are denied even basic human rights in this country every day, they're killed and their killers get nothing more than a slap on the wrist if that. I'm flipping my crap because of how many black youth in this country are struggling out there right now, hungry, starving, sick. I'm flipping my crap because of all those children in foster care, the majority of them are PoC, and no one wants a baby that's a PoC unless it comes from a different country. I'm flipping my crap because my father and my sister and my brothers in law have struggled and grown up in the foster care with nothing, bounced from house to house, because no one wanted an older black child. I'm flipping my crap because of the crosses burned on my father's desk at his job prior to his recent retirement. I'm flipping my crap because the majority of violent deaths in this country are PoC. I'm flipping my crap because the majority of undeserving innocents sitting in jail for the rest of their lives right now are PoC. I'm flipping my crap because I live in a country where I may not be safe if I move to certain states, because I am black and racism is high and violent, and walking home one night I might end up with bullets in my back or a noose around my neck. I'm flipping my crap because policemen in northern states have developed strict policies and get away with police brutality on innocent black youth, even in generally "black" cities.

I'm flipping my crap because one of my sisters married a white man 4 years ago in May, and his parents still refuse to meet her and want nothing to do with their children. Because they have said that she is nothing more than trash, and will "produce" nothing more than trash. Because they have said they would rather have had their son be unhappy and lonely, die alone and unloved, than to marry a black woman.

I'm flipping my crap because a black teenager and his friends recently let out of school were brutalized by the police because they had scarves covering their faces (in subzero weather!), and this act of brutality has left him sterile because the police literally ripped his genitals off.

I'm flipping my crap because a white man stalked and gunned down and put six bullets into the back of a 21 year old black youth, for doing nothing more than cutting through his yard, and is pleading innocent due to self defense... and the judge might just let him.

I'm flipping my crap because when the police attempted to gun down an innocent black man, and their bullets also hit some of the bystanders, the innocent black man is now charged with attempted murder and assault over the bullets that hit the bystanders.

I'm flipping my crap because the Supreme Court struck down a ket part of the Voting Act which protected black people and PoC's votes.

But, you know... BSL is the same as racism.





For the record, Fuzzy, you might not want to assume so many things about me. I have said goodness knows how many times that I like APBTs and that if I would have a bully breed, it would likely be an EBT or AmStaff. I have said that the breeds I like also have faults. I don't make judgements on whether I should or should not like a dog based on breed. I have worked with many, many bully types, and I've found them to be for the most part great big goobers when it came to human interaction. I call the appropriate people whenever my (OURs, actually, since I live in your state) state government starts making noises about repealing the state-wide ban on BSL. I fight tooth and nail with landlords for people to be allowed to keep their dogs. I have donated my own time and money to marches and protests, I attend the bully breed events in my city whenever they pop up, heck I even use Baby the exbait dog as a therapy dog for special needs children in certain innercity schools. I tell kids that have dogs they think they can use as fighting dogs how to get into better sports, like weight pulling or dock diving, and they learn how real partnership works with their dogs instead of throwing them to the fighting pit.

You keep assuming that I have no experience, or that I just don't like these dogs. You think I don't know how it feels to walk a dog and get all kinds of bad comments, even though I have and have had breeds that people hate, including APBTs. You think I don't know how it feels to be denied access to a business, or how it feels to be turned down for housing due to my choice in dog. Been there, done that, all of it.

THAT is what my posts are about. I know what these dogs go through. I know what I go through. Trust me, there is no comparison.

I'm seriously not trying to offend you or say that racism is ok or anything. If anything, I'm saying it's not ok at all for people OR animals. Even if you look at your first paragraph, the same things happen to dogs under breed discrimination. Like saying about most of the kids in orphanages, most of the dogs in shelters are Pitbulls. And how you said about the police targeting certain people, have you read the tons of stories whee the police shot dogs in their own homes who came to get them? What about the story of Parot?
I'm not even saying you are for BSL, but if anything you'd think you would understand how those dogs feel.

[Lupen]

@Lupen, it still makes me angry because you even can't say "a dog's SSA" you just have to target one breed, of course.

I was using a breed that is well known for it's tendency towards same sex aggression as an example. I could have easily used a doberman. But I know you own an Akita, and I was directing what I said to you. What I said wasn't even against Akitas, in fact it was the opposite. I said their tendency towards it doesn't make them bad dogs; it's part of what makes them an Akita. Something that you need to take into account and RESPECT if you are to own the breed.

Stop getting so defensive. You just seem to look for arguments where there are none.

And I don't think the one who has problems "understanding" is Jazi. I think he understands perfectly well what dogs targeted by BSL go through; your comparison(s) is just incorrect and offensive.

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

@Lupen, it still makes me angry because you even can't say "a dog's SSA" you just have to target one breed, of course.

I was using a breed that is well known for it's tendency towards same sex aggression as an example. I could have easily used a doberman. But I know you own an Akita, and I was directing what I said to you. What I said wasn't even against Akitas, in fact it was the opposite. I said their tendency towards it doesn't make them bad dogs; it's part of what makes them an Akita. Something that you need to take into account and RESPECT if you are to own the breed.

Stop getting so defensive. You just seem to look for arguments where there are none.

And I think the one who has problems "understanding" is not Jazi. I think he understands perfectly well; your comparison(s) is just incorrect and offensive.

My Akita isn't even SSA and ther are TONS who aren't, so no, I am not going to say "Akitas are SSA and that makes them an Akita". It's just completely incorrect.
And you can't tell me my comparison is wrong. It may be to you, but not to me and I'm not the only person who feels that way. It's not like I'm some crazy person with their own ideas and nobody else feels that way. Maybe your targeting of breeds and labeling them offends me?

And on the kill shelter topic: I still think if they can make room for homeless kids, they need to make room for homeless pets. We created animals yes, therefore we have the responsibility of caring for them, not killing them. They don't euthanize orphans just because "it's better than being an orphan" so WHY do it to animals!?

[Lupen]

I have been over this so many times... When have I or anyone else ever said "Akitas are SSA and that makes them an Akita". I said they have a higher TENDENCY. And Akitas being prone to it is part of the breed. Something that needs to be taken into account and prepared for whether it shows or not. Yes it can show up in other breeds. Yes, there are Akitas that never show SSA. But they are more likely to be SSA than a Golden retriever. Or beagle. Or Border collie. Is it really that hard to understand?

I'm not targeting any breeds. I love all breeds. But I respect them too. I research them. Find info about them from real, reputable sources. I don't rely on personal experience alone or sugar coat breeds - that harms the breed far more than helps them, I'll tell you that much.

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

I have been over this so many times... When have I or anyone else ever said "Akitas are SSA and that makes them an Akita". I said they have a higher TENDENCY. And Akitas being prone to it is part of the breed. Something that needs to be taken into account and prepared for whether it shows or not. Yes it can show up in other breeds. Yes, there are Akitas that never show SSA. But they are more likely to be SSA than a Golden retriever. Or beagle. Or Border collie. Is it really that hard to understand?

I'm not targeting any breeds. I love all breeds. But I respect them too. I research them. Find info about them from real, reputable sources. I don't rely on personal experience alone or sugar coat breeds - that harms the breed far more than helps them, I'll tell you that much.

Honestly, until I have concrete eviddence that their is seriously something in the genetic make up that makes a certain breed aggressive, I will not label them. And that's impossible because if it was, they'd all be that way and they are most definitely not.

[Lupen]

Because the breeders who have bred Akitas their entire lives are clueless and you know far more than they do. Same with the breed registries, like the AKC. The people who live and breath Akitas.

Just because you haven't met a SSA Akita doesn't negate FACTS. Just because your Akita hasn't shown SSA, and it still could surface, doesn't mean that most aren't SSA. You can research it yourself. Join an Akita forum and post a thread there asking, "Are Akitas prone to same sex aggression?".

Tell me what you find.

[gingertail98]

@MaybeitsNeighbelline Oh dear lord. Your posts are giving me a headache. I'm posting from my phone so excuse any mistakes. You have /no right/ to complain about the no-kill shelters. They are mostly volunteers trying to clean up the messes that backyard breeders have created, and guess what? Because you adopted Piper from a BYB you have put another litter of puppies in a kill shelter somewhere by supporting them to breed another litter, shocking, I know. Kill shelters have no choice, not every city is like yours? Have you ever looked at the Villalobos Facebook rescue page on Facebook? Even with the local kill shelter and Villalobos which can hold many dogs, there are still hundreds of dogs wandering New Orleans and starving to death and suffering. I'd rather them go to sleep peacefully than starve to death on the streets, because could you imagine if the kill shelter was no kill? How few dogs they would help? How many would be hit by cars, thrown in fighting rings as bait dogs? Starve to death? Poisoned? Caught in traps? Beaten? You're telling me you'd prefer that to getting cookies with a human who loves them, even though it isn't their dog and they are just volunteering, and then slipping peacefully into a sleep. No matter what you argue, they don't understand that it's death, it's just sleep. Jeez. Also, you can't even argue the unfairness of the dogs being euthanized how it's unfair ect/ect/ect unless you are a vegetarian (Which I know from a previous post you are not) because guess what? It isn't a peaceful sleep for most of the meat animals you buy at the supermarket they live and are "killed for doing nothing wrong" in a way much more horrible then a needle and then sleep. I really am not going to bother continuing this argument with you, as you clearly don't care to listen to common sense or reason.

@Fuzzy Geez. Again, like I feel like we're all talking to a brick wall, Fuzzy. Stop. Dragging. Up. Old. Arguments. We have all made it clear where we stand, and we are all far more educated on the topic than you are, and you aren't doing anything to change our minds, just making us angry and frustrated and feeling like we can't even post on here because you'll argue with whatever we say whining about "Us singling out breeds" or comparing humans to dogs in a way that sickens us or implying that our dogs are 'bad dogs' like "Wolfgang/Misty/Kiba wouldn't do that" or "Wolfgang is as close to perfect as you can get in a dog" It's just irritating everyone else and making you look immature. You legitimately sicken me, and I can stand your attitude no longer, and I pray for your sake that Wolfgang doesn't developed SSA which Akitas tend to do, since you seem in such denial of it. Jazi isn't the one with trouble understanding here, it's you, especially if you continue to compare BSL to racism and orphans and foster children to animals in shelters.


@everybody else I apologize for my sudden outburst but I am sick feeling like coming on this thread is a chore, or that I can't post because the other comments here give me a headache because a few select people choose to only look at one side of an argument. I probably won't be posting here until some changes are made either in attitude or otherwise. If any of my friends want to talk still I'll stick to the chat room or PM me. I am going through a stressful time in my life and this thread just adds to my stress, so, yeah. Hopefully talk to some of you soon. <3

[Ethulai]

Really don't like the debate going on right now. I understand the necessity of animals being pst since there is no way of looking after the majority of them but on the other hand it makes me physically ill.

I just sit there and think, what if that was my Remy in there? What if he was killed? It just upsets me too much to think about.

...

Anyway, it's been 40+ degrees Celsius here for the past few days and will continue to be so for the next few days. On Tuesday my friend came over to study with me, and she brought her two pups and their dog bed. Well, guess who took over the dog bed?

http://instagram.com/p/jsf34xJbmL/

That's right...my three.

Also, Remy likes to unravel ice packs

http://instagram.com/p/gpJi5DpbhP/

Also, Remy snaps his teeth at me when he wants to play. Do any of your dogs do this?

http://instagram.com/p/fGwVyXJblU/

[FuzzyThePunkCat]

Sure feel like you are "far more educated on the topic" all because you guys label dogs. And I'm not even the one dragging up old agreguements. I must be far more educated right? I mean, I only have four non-aggressive dogs, three of them being very well behaved, so that must make me very uneducated about dogs, right? I have such simple breeds to train too, right? So, I have NO IDEA what I'm doing.
Seriously, if I was not educated on this kind of stuff, wouldn't I have dogs who had problems? Wouldn't Misty be hyper and obnoxious? Wouldn't Marty being aggressive towards people? Wouldn't Kiba being a yappy, annoying purse dog? Wouldn't Wolfgang be aggressive toward all his male best friends? Wouldn't I have not been able to help to train Tipper, Addie, Bella, Murphy, Oscar, Jilli, and a TON of dogs at the shelter?
Just because I not label dogs, does NOT mean I am "less educated" than you.

And yes, to me Wolfgang is VERY close to a perfect puppy. He's not an dog, he's a puppy. Alot of puppies are hard to hanleaand raise, but he was not. He is very chill too, something most puppies aren't.

You won't change my mind. I'm done arguing. I will compare dogs to people because it is TRUE and right now I don't even care if it offends anyone because you couldn't care less who you offend, so neither will I.

@Euthalai, I think the same thing. Like, what if one of my dogs (cough, Marty) were to run off and get picked up by a kill shelter. Instead of giving me a chance to find him (because believe me, I would look on every place on earth if one of my dogs went missing), he would just be put to sleep if I was too late getting there. That would KILL ME to know that happened because I was too late. It kills me to know that if Misty had been I a kill shelter and I hasn't adopted her, she would be dead.

Addie snaps her teeth together when she wants to play with Kiba lol, but she never lays her mouth on other dogs so I don't know why she does it xP

[Jazi]

Fuzzy, people. aren't. dogs. Dogs do not wake up every day hearing about how the other dogs are treated and wondering and fearing if they'll be next. Dogs do not read the news about other dogs being killed and have to hope and pray they are never in an area or situation where that happens. Dogs are not subjected to the more insidious nature of racism. BSL is NOT racism. It IS offensive for you to compare the two. That is why many people, more than just me, have told you to stop. Because you are the one that doesn't understand, at all, what it's like to be a PoC. I've done both the fight against BSL and the fight against racism. They are not the same. At all.

What happens to BSL breeds is awful. But it is not racism. It's not anywhere close. Before you try and bring in an emotionally charged subject to a discussion, you might want to make sure that if someone is telling you that it's offensive, you maybe rethink using that argument. Like I said, it's a surefire way to get people riled up and the thread locked, otherwise. These are topics that affect the daily life of many people, some of those people even here in this thread. And I know that I wasn't the first person to bring it up.

Honestly, if you can read that entire post and know that I have still more examples of blatant everyday racism and violent acts, that I have to know and live with, that I have to be concerned about every time I have an interaction with someone or even walk down the street, and think that it's the "same"... you are very ignorant of what racism truly is.





You have had genetics and predisposition explained to you many times before. You have been given countless sources and people with leagues more experience in the breed both in the thread and quoted from other sites, including people that you yourself have quoted. Breed clubs. Rescues. Reputable breeders. People with way more experience than you. You have had SSA explained to you many times. I don't know what other proof you need, because all I can think is that you will continue to ignore it so that you don't have to look up and face what you have been told over and over again. Because they're all wrong, because you have a puppy that is not yet showing any of these traits. That may never show these traits- because genetics are not about 100%.

I picked my cat up out of the local kill shelter, where they had 400 cats that year with more incoming. Where cats were being given away, something that costs them a ridiculous amount of money, because they didn't want to euthanize them but because not as many people were adopting as were surrendering, they ended up having to euthanize a lot of cats. What to do? Build another floor? With what money? Sorry, most kill shelters are government run, and with budget cuts everywhere with this craptastic economy, extra money to build a larger building or to add more floors just isn't going to happen. Donations, sure, but because people have this horrible attitude that no one should support kill shelters, they aren't getting donations. Volunteers could help, but hey, people shouldn't support kill shelters, so no one's volunteering either. Which means no one is volunteering as a foster home, which means less homes for dogs to escape that environment, which means more dogs getting put down when there is no space. Breed rescues can help ease the load somewhat, but they mostly care about their specific breeds, and certain breed rescues (like bully rescues) are filled to the brim. We could build a new shelter, but again, lack of money and volunteers cuts that idea short. What do you do then?