Declawing? Pet Centers?

[Jazi]

Okay, I did more research and still I can't tell what they do to the Olympic horses. let's just leave it at neutral for now.

And declawing, you guys have brought up some pretty good points. Some people declaw their aggressive cats when some simple training and different settings could make them happy and friendly.

Let's talk about pet centers.I've been to many looking for a new cat when Frank died. They had small cages , but at set times, the cats were free to roam the place. Other places aren't so great. Such as the ones that kill the animals that haven't been adopted for a while. Some young boy or girl could be perfect for that pet, but it gets killed before they can adopt it. Also, some nice places like I mentioned above have old beat up cats and dogs that are obviously suffering. They don't put them down, which probably is the best thing to do. For example, when I went to a humane society there was this raggedy old cat with one eye, one ear, and a terrible limp. And the nice places also leave food out for ALL the animals, and one eats most of it every day. the rs ult: A furry beach ball. All of these things, (except the places where the animals get killed) I have viewed with my own eyes. Ever since then I've had such a different view on pet centers.

Kill shelters don't kill because they like it. Most kill shelters are government run and are required to take in every animal that comes in their doors. Let's say you have 20 kennels and can put 2 dogs in each kennel. You get 10 dogs a day, but only adopt out 2 a day. Eventually you will run into the problem of having more than 40 dogs and not enough space to house them all. What then? You can try fostering, but even nokill shelters have a hard time finding an open foster home. Try adoption events, but people seem to have this stigma against kill shelters and refuse to adopt from them. So they run out of space, money, and volunteers and are forced to make the hard decision and start euthing dogs.

Then you add in that a sick or injured dog will take up resources that could be devoted to 5 other dogs, or one dog is dog aggressive and must be housed alone, or one has a really bad chance of being adopted, or one is going stir-crazy from being locked in a cage all day, or one is aggressive and a liability, or one is illegal to own in that area... and it becomes an even harder decision to decide who lives and who dies. So they begin to have a days system in order to make it fair for every dog coming through... you have 3 days to get adopted no matter what your condition or you're done. They devise temperament tests (not all of them are fair, mind, but that's another story) in order to deem a dog "adoptable" or "aggressive". They call as many foster homes as they can and then start again back through the list. But it's not enough because they are required to take in any animals turned into the shelter and no one's willing to support them because they've got to make the decision to kill.

[Onew~]

@OP: Where'd you hear that about the horses? Because I can tell you now, without looking it up, that's completely untrue. Those horses are ATHLETES and treated as such. Their riders treat them with respect, love and take the best care of them possible. A horse will NOT prance around a ring if it hurts to put their feet down. Hell, they probably wouldn't even leave their stalls. There is no way someone can get a horse to do something it doesn't want to, especially if it hurts. They may put bell boots on the horse to remind it to lift it's hooves higher, and it may be a special breed that was BRED to have a more exaggerated gate but there is no way they would hurt or shorten the life of a horse that is worth MILLIONS.

Pretty sure this subject is called soring. They do do it. I know you're far off this subject by now, but, still. I wanted to put this in.

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I don't have a problem with it, but I think the overall treatment of animals is unfortunate. How would you like to be locked up in a little cage, little kids staring at you all day, saying "Mommy, I want that one as a pet!". Just saying, I don't have a problem with it, but the idea of being someone's "pet" from your view is kind of creepy, isn't it? And if you feel rebellious, hate being "trained", controlled, etc? Try and run away? Turn aggressive on them? Unacceptable behavior - you are put down immediately.

Just saying.

[blueshadowmoon]

I don't have a problem with it, but I think the overall treatment of animals is unfortunate. How would you like to be locked up in a little cage, little kids staring at you all day, saying "Mommy, I want that one as a pet!". Just saying, I don't have a problem with it, but the idea of being someone's "pet" from your view is kind of creepy, isn't it? And if you feel rebellious, hate being "trained", controlled, etc? Try and run away? Turn aggressive on them? Unacceptable behavior - you are put down immediately.

Just saying.

You're looking at it from a human point of view. Most dogs live for human attention and when someone comes over to their cage they might be able to get out or they could be fed or get treats or be petted and they get excited because of it so they jump up onto the side of the cage to try to get someone to look at them. Also, pets cannot fully understand what people are saying, but of course there is also some controversy about that since dogs can actually mimic their owners to the point of fable speech. They can only pick up on certain things. Yes, some dogs are hard to train, but no, that does not mean they're rebellious and they think it's "creepy" to be a pet.

I have a lot of pets, I am sure all of them could not make it without being stroked, given treats, and given food and water since they all have a high need for social interaction because of how I raised them and they can't all hunt, my dog, turtle, some of my fish, and one of my cats have some disability so they can't hunt. I got my dog from a kill shelter and I am sure if anyone else got her they would have taken her back because after they found out she's deaf and she would have ended up euthanized because not a lot of people want a high energy deaf dog.

What Jazi said is completely true. Just because somewhere is a kill shelter doesn't mean they're a bad place. It's because they are most likely government owned and they have limited funds and cannot save all the animals that come in. Why keep one pet alive that has no owner and no home when you can save other animals? You have to poor all the money into the pets that need it and be humane and realistic by euthanizing the animal. They don't want to, they love every animal that comes through their doors, but they cannot save all of them.

[Bayleaf]

Hmm... You're right. It is sad and a little cruel that there are kill centers. But I agree that dogs that are aggressive and/or have been there a while can't stay until someone takes them. But even so, I still don't like the idea at all. It's confusing.

[Sadies]

I used to disagree with kill shelters but I see an upside now. Is it fair for one animal that has no hope of being re-homed living in a cage or kennel for it's entire life where it will never get the attention it needs. It also means that the rescue center can take in more animals and can re-home more animals rather than having lots of animals not getting the love they need stuck in cages there entire life.

In my country I am quiet lucky, there are not many kill centers, most work on a "We never put a healthy dog down" policy where they will only put down ill animals or unfathomable animals (aggressive animals). I personally don't agree with putting aggressive animals down (unless it's aggressive for a medical reason) I think the animals should be rehabilitated but then not many places have enough money to deal with it so they have to put them to sleep.

I would not get an animal from a pet store or breeder, I would much rather rescue and give an animal a second chance than getting a pet which is more likely to get a home. For every pet you get from a pet store or breeder that it one pet in a rescue center that dies. Also going to a rescue means you can know more about an animal before getting it where as if you get a young animal they will change when they develop and could turn out not fitting in with your lifestyle.

[Saracirce]

I used to be dead set against Kill shelters but a certain person on this forum (they prob know who they are) changed my opinions. I don't support kill shelters over non-kill or vice versa but I see the upside and downside of both. I think non-kills are better for animals who may be disabled in some way (wobbler's, deaf, blind, partial paralysis, etc) because they're given much longer to find a loving, caring home and aren't killed right on the spot.

As for why they put down aggressive dogs, even if they had the money, time, resources to rehabilitate every aggressive dog that passed through their door, if the person they adopt the dog out to slack off on the training, the dog CAN backslide. It would more then likely result in a very dangerous situation. If someone got bit by said dog, the adopter could sue the shelter for giving them a dangerous dog because most people are too idiotic or too stubborn to see when something is their fault. It's better in the long run for the shelter, the public and even the dogs, to put down a dog who is so aggressive they could be a danger.'

EDIT: Personally, the only shelters I don't particularly like are the ones that only rescue a certain breed (except Greyhound rescues. that's different). Like there's one near me that ONLY rescues cocker spaniels. They'll take another dog in dire straits but their primary focus is cocker spaniels. I don't think that's necessarily fair because I think every animal deserves an equal chance at being saved and because I try never to judge a dog based on it's breed.

[blueshadowmoon]

I personally don't agree with putting aggressive animals down (unless it's aggressive for a medical reason) I think the animals should be rehabilitated but then not many places have enough money to deal with it so they have to put them to sleep.

What about the animals that were seized because their owners fought them? They have to be put down because if they get a hold of another animal they will kill it. It's pretty much impossible to get a dog that has fought and killed other dogs to act like a regular dog around other animals. Two dogs ripped through a chain-link fence and killed a smaller dog, both of those dogs had been fighting dogs.

I would not get an animal from a pet store or breeder, I would much rather rescue and give an animal a second chance than getting a pet which is more likely to get a home. For every pet you get from a pet store or breeder that it one pet in a rescue center that dies. Also going to a rescue means you can know more about an animal before getting it where as if you get a young animal they will change when they develop and could turn out not fitting in with your lifestyle.

Reputable breeders are not the problem. They breed their pets responsibly for health and behavior and care about the animals. If they are in it just for the money like designer dog breeders they are not true breeders in my opinion, they are a puppy mill. Most dogs in pet stores are from puppy mills so getting dogs from pet stores I do not agree with since they have a lot of health problems and are not bred for a good reason.

Also, by the every pet you get from a pet store another pet dies thing: So for every fish I get a dog, cat, horse, bull, cow, pig, rabbit, etc. in a shelter dies? I don't think so. Some animals you can't adopt from shelters. You can't adopt fish from shelters yet almost every fish I own is a rescue since I got them from bad conditions and am letting them live for at least their average life span.

[Sadies]

I personally don't agree with putting aggressive animals down (unless it's aggressive for a medical reason) I think the animals should be rehabilitated but then not many places have enough money to deal with it so they have to put them to sleep.

What about the animals that were seized because their owners fought them? They have to be put down because if they get a hold of another animal they will kill it. It's pretty much impossible to get a dog that has fought and killed other dogs to act like a regular dog around other animals. Two dogs ripped through a chain-link fence and killed a smaller dog, both of those dogs had been fighting dogs.

I would not get an animal from a pet store or breeder, I would much rather rescue and give an animal a second chance than getting a pet which is more likely to get a home. For every pet you get from a pet store or breeder that it one pet in a rescue center that dies. Also going to a rescue means you can know more about an animal before getting it where as if you get a young animal they will change when they develop and could turn out not fitting in with your lifestyle.

Reputable breeders are not the problem. They breed their pets responsibly for health and behavior and care about the animals. If they are in it just for the money like designer dog breeders they are not true breeders in my opinion, they are a puppy mill. Most dogs in pet stores are from puppy mills so getting dogs from pet stores I do not agree with since they have a lot of health problems and are not bred for a good reason.

Also, by the every pet you get from a pet store another pet dies thing: So for every fish I get a dog, cat, horse, bull, cow, pig, rabbit, etc. in a shelter dies? I don't think so. Some animals you can't adopt from shelters. You can't adopt fish from shelters yet almost every fish I own is a rescue since I got them from bad conditions and am letting them live for at least their average life span.

What I meant by medical was that it was in their head and was all they knew, like it couldn't be taken out of them. So yes, if they were bred to be fought and that wasn't going to change it would probably be better for the dog.
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Breeders are part of the problem, breeding more animals when there are enough animals in need of homes. No-matter what they are breeding for they are still causing an animal in a shelter to loose a home because a person will get an animal from a breeder not a shelter.

That's not what I meant, I meant that when you buy for example a puppy from a pet shop, that means that one dog in a shelter doesn't get the chance of having a home and gets put down. I understand that if you can not adopt the animal from a shelter, that doesn't count.

[Bayleaf]

I totally get what you mean, but it's really true and not really true. Millions of people get pets from rescue centers every day, all over the world.If you think about it like that, the majority of rescued pets are taken into nice homes. But if you think of one particular little place, not really. Still, I got my cat from a breeder, But like I mentioned above, Some of the humane societies had old tottery animals that seemed like they were reaching the end of their life. And they also had mean feral cats that lashed out at anyone within two feet of them, including me. I don't think someone would choose one of those cats over a nice healthy kitten from a breeder. Just saying.

[Saracirce]

I totally get what you mean, but it's really true and not really true. Millions of people get pets from rescue centers every day, all over the world.If you think about it like that, the majority of rescued pets are taken into nice homes. But if you think of one particular little place, not really. Still, I got my cat from a breeder, But like I mentioned above, Some of the humane societies had old tottery animals that seemed like they were reaching the end of their life. And they also had mean feral cats that lashed out at anyone within two feet of them, including me. I don't think someone would choose one of those cats over a nice healthy kitten from a breeder. Just saying.

I would. Kittens (and puppies) are cute but they're not my thing. I actually want to adopt those 'old tottery' animals near the end of their life. I'd rather have them come into my home and be loved for at least a few hours then die in a shelter cage. I feel closer to those animals that come from a messed up background then I ever could a puppy (or kitten) that comes from a breeder. My background is messed up. I didn't get a good start in life, just like those dogs and cats. I don't mind if they've got behavioral issues (or medical issues) that I have to work through. I'll gladly put my sweat, blood and tears into them to give them the happy ending every animal deserves. You also need to keep in mind, most of those animals in there are scared out of their wits. They're trapped in cages in an unfamiliar surrounding with strange beings (people) constantly sticking their hands up to their cages and surrounded by other stressed out animals. They don't understand we're trying to help. They think we're monsters. So of course they lash out.