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[Kheisa]

xD Steve, could you throw a domesticated dog into the wild and expect it to survive? Russian domesticated silver foxes are genetically distinct from silver foxes and red foxes, and it's because of the domestication. They're the same way as dogs. I mean, if domestic dogs have a separate analysis from wolves and coyotes, domesticated foxes have to be separate from wild foxes.

[Stop.turning.blue.]

xD Steve, could you throw a domesticated dog into the wild and expect it to survive? Russian domesticated silver foxes are genetically distinct from silver foxes and red foxes, and it's because of the domestication. They're the same way as dogs. I mean, if domestic dogs have a separate analysis from wolves and coyotes, domesticated foxes have to be separate from wild foxes.

I'm just saying that they're not a techincally species just a hooplah some guy did in the lab. XD - and after a few a generation or two of litters, and if you raised them like a regular foxs are supposed to be- they'd you know act like one. XD Theres like a teeny analysis on them, and I remember asking Hails (authoer of the grand fox analysis O: ooh Dark Tabby go read it) about them, and she said they'd be quite similar, they just got exposed differently? There are usually domestication points in analysis i.e. servals and genets, appparently they make quiet excellent pets; but they share the main traits with their normal members.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, I'm just saying they are foxes, and if you didn't constantly inbreed them they would be foxes, instead of an unsurvivable thing outside of strict circumstance.

EDIT This makes me want to make a thread O: Hmm, things like Cheetahs get lazy and don't want to do anything for themselves in capitivity and things like caipercaillies will rip your leg off. >> << diskussions do love

[Warburton]

As long as I'm something fox like, I'll be happy. I've done it myself, mind you - I'm just too used to the whole fox species. DX Cape Fox is working out pretty well though.
We'll keep Red Fox as a spare form, eheh.

[Kheisa]

Nope, it's actually genetics. I mean, obviously you could raise them to be more wild, since you can do that with any domesticated animal--horses, cats, dogs, etc--but it's WAY more than some hooplah. It's nearly 50 years of selective breeding to choose the animals that were most amenable to human company. They wag their tails (something wild foxes don't do), bark (something wild foxes don't do), put their ears down, come in a variety of piebald and irish spotting colorations (even with blue eyes sometimes), and are predisposed to be incredibly social and friendly. Wikipedia calls 'em a breed of fox, which still warrants a separate analysis from the red fox. xD

No, no, I understand, but purebred dogs are inbred too, and there's still people settled as 'em. The foxes are essentially the same, except that instead of modifying wolf behavior to be genetically tamer, they modify wild fox behavior.

[Warburton]

Is there an informative analysis on the domesticated silver foxes?
We're interested, even if it's just for a spare comfort form. =P

[Stop.turning.blue.]

Nope, it's actually genetics. I mean, obviously you could raise them to be more wild, since you can do that with any domesticated animal--horses, cats, dogs, etc--but it's WAY more than some hooplah. It's nearly 50 years of selective breeding to choose the animals that were most amenable to human company. They wag their tails (something wild foxes don't do), bark (something wild foxes don't do), put their ears down, come in a variety of piebald and irish spotting colorations (even with blue eyes sometimes), and are predisposed to be incredibly social and friendly. Wikipedia calls 'em a breed of fox, which still warrants a separate analysis from the red fox. xD

No, no, I understand, but purebred dogs are inbred too, and there's still people settled as 'em. The foxes are essentially the same, except that instead of modifying wolf behavior to be genetically tamer, they modify wild fox behavior.

Nono, I'm not misunderstanding you. XD It's just, what gets me - is, like are they viable. Would they revert back without stimuli? Would they still have the potentail to act that way?

Wow, this is an interesting can of worms, we usually teeter away and call things like this taboo.

They don't reproduce outside of lab settings but then again, 90 percent of Pugs need to be C-sectioned and wouldn't techincally survive either. Would you call them an established species? (please note, I'm flying off of Wiki excerpts and some thing on Nova I was forced to watch in Environmental Science). Are the expirements even being continued - I thought it fell apart after the Soviet Union teetered? But then again, that's the same as saying a T-rex as an unviable form jsut because they don't techincally exist anymore. -turns on Walking Contradiction-

I LOVE STUFF LIKE THIS. HELLO I JUST MET YOU AND I LOVE YOU.

This is why I hate daemonism though, so topsy turvy. P: Ima start a thread I think.

DarkTabby, there's one floating around. Check the "Analysis index Mark Four" And look for The Ultimate Fox Analysis towards the bottom. I know its in there ^^

[Warburton]

Thanks Steve >:3

The whole Silver Fox experiment stopped, I believe. Or at least took a hiatus, as a website mentioned. They ran out of funds, so they had to sell some of the foxes to raise money. Whether they're picking it back up soon, or if they already have, well...I dunno XD

[Stop.turning.blue.]

Didju find it ^^? I quick found it for you just in case.

[Kheisa]

xD Yup, and a bunch of English Bulldogs too, 'cause their heads are too big to fit through the birth canal a lot of the time.

I dunno, really. Right now, it feels like being settled as a domestic fox would be like being settled as a NGSD (no offense, obviously, Comanche) or one of those other more "primitive" breeds; should domestic foxes be bred more in the future, to have distinct breeds that have purposes like Border Collies and German Shepherds, then of course they'd warrant individual analyses, because they have very distinct personality / behavior differences from wild foxes.

What is this i don't ev SQUIRREL!

I'll definitely join in if you make a thread for domesticated fox discussion. :33

And I don't personally know if the experiments are being continued; I think they just got cut in size or something like that. I know they're offering fully domesticated foxes as pets via SibFox, and they gave some to fur farms so the farms could breed foxes that were more amenable to captivity.

[wolverine♥]

Such fox experts. I'm not a big fan of Fox, but they are cool. Kilandro prefers the larger form, but he likes to be some adorable little rodent. *Pulls out informative book* The 'Northern Red-Backed Vole' Heres a picture- He also likes to be a Deer Mouse, wich looks like this-http://magickcanoe.com/mammals/deer-mouse-1-large.jpg Pictures alittle big. :3