TRT "Free Speech" Club and Discussion

[Kyar]

Hello everyone and welcome to the Trade Rant Thread "Free Speech" discussion and club. :)

I'm posting this in the clubs forum because I'm really not sure where else it could belong without being disruptive - if a mod knows of a better place that would be great too.

So what's this all about?

Several months ago a rule was put into place on the TRT that it is no longer allowed to reply to another user's posts.
Some of the reasons for this were/are:
- Frequent spam (e.g. "My eyes!" "Wow" etc.)
- Quoting rules (i.e. replying to another user's post with a quote from the rules section rather than just reporting the post)
- Arguments, harassing, and accusations (this was the biggest reason)

Since then the thread has become far more tame and the rules are followed much more closely.
However the community feel the thread used to have was essentially destroyed by not being able to communicate. Personally I made a great number of my closest friends through this thread and it is quite depressing to see it turn into just flat rants and no conversation.

There are more difficulties to changing this rule than just agreeing it would be nice to. It was set into place by the mods and while I do not have the PM anymore I did speak to a mod about the issue privately. Essentially I was told that there shouldn't be any need to reply and that replying just led to problems - that there isn't anything about trades worth discussing.
This is another issue we will have to consider when trying to decide if it is worth it to try to remove this rule. Please keep it in mind.

Do you think that the TRT should be a community place to discuss trades? Should it stay the way it is - leaving the rule in place? We want to know!

What can we do?

Ultimately this will be a decision of the mods. Please remember that.

However - we can debate the issue and come up with a solid argument for one side or the other.
I honestly don't know what will end up being the decision - for or against repealing the rule. I will say that personally I would like to see it removed but I think it is only fair that I help to build up a case for that rather than just saying it should be done.

Both sides are welcome to debate here but please do so respectfully. We do need to consider both sides if we are going to make our case to the mods - so please take all statements against this idea seriously because the mods might agree. You don't have to agree - but don't shoot people down for disagreeing.

This club membership will count as signing a sort of petition. I will make a list of all the users who agree that the rule should be removed - just fill out this little form and post it here:

Code: Select all

[center]Username:
Do you agree that the no-reply rule should be removed? (Y/N)
Brief description of your stance: (1-2 sentences)[/center]

I've already PMed several users about this issue and I will be quoting what has already been briefly mentioned in the second post.

Rules and tips

- Please stay on topic. This means don't talk about your bad trades here unless you are using examples of what posts should and should not be allowed on the TRT
- Be respectful. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you need to be rude. Please respect everyone's opinions whether you agree with them or not
- Don't post if you don't know. If you don't use or are not familiar with the TRT please refrain from posting. This thread is really designated for people that this issue affects.
- Back up your views. This isn't exactly a rule but any evidence of what you're saying is a great way to help prove a point
- Be open and understanding. Putting your thoughts out there leaves room for people to pick them apart. Don't be afraid to say what you think and don't feel bad if your ideas get turned down - it's all part of the process of trying to get to the absolute best argument
- Discuss - not debate. Debating usually consists of trying to prove that your point is better than another person's. Discussing involves working together and taking the best of each person's ideas and trying to reach this goal together.


Footnote

As you guys can probably see I'm trying to make this quite professional so that we can make a good case to the mods. :) Basically I just want it to be a well thought out argument before we start trying to convince them that the rule should be changed. If you guys have any suggestions for how I could make this first post or anything at all better please let me know. :)

Also - I would like to mention briefly the TTAY thread for those of you who use it as well. It had the same rule put into place shortly before the TRT. I don't want to get into the issue with the TTAY thread just yet because that thread was extremely unstable and there were fierce debates almost daily which with issues such as religion and views on gay rights being brought up is just far too touchy for us to get into just yet. We can maybe get there in time but I think the TRT is a MUCH tamer thread and would be far easier to start with.

[Kyar]

Petition members:
Let me know if I missed you lol.

For removing the no-reply rule:
1. Topiratti
2. Fireblossom
3. Kyar
4. Patch.
5. ziggy.stardust
6. Tybalt
7. Yoyce
8. Stealthfire
9. RainbowPeanut
10. Beguile
11. RavenclawHobbit
12. Jiloon
13. your highness
14. Team_Dobby
15. stonestable
16. Ethulai
17. Azuri
18. Maxiumumride_123
19. Zelda's Legacy
20. {rainstorm.}
21. Fox Fire Rain
22. Gigglebug
23. Cashee
24. arapaima01
25. party.poison
26. Dizzy socks
27. Kisa Wolfz
28. Wild.One
29. Impulsive-punk


Against removing the no-reply rule:
1. kristatheepic
2. cottoncandymonster

[Kyar]

Okay - for those of you who aren't aware I did send out a PM to a small group of people just to get a quick idea of whether or not making a thread like this would be worth it. Here is what I sent out:

Hey guys! :)

I've just been thinking a little - would anyone be up for trying to "petition" to get the rights to reply to posts on the TRT again? It's been a while since replies have been banned and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the issue - of course keeping in mind the reasons the rule was put into place.
This is just a preliminary thing and I'd love to hear what you guys have to say. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. :)
Thanks!

- Ky

This PM was sent to:
Topiratti, Mavric, Ethulai, {rainstorm.}, ~ t r o u b l e ~, Sakura Kyoko, 'Possum, Patch., KittyKat♥, and MaximumRide_123

Here are the replies that I have received so far:

{Kyar and I have already talked about this today, so I'd like to say that i am all in ^^
I think the people who made it an issue have learned their lesson, and a small amount of chit chat won't hurt now. especially since kyar and I are on all the time and we would be there to possibly keep things under control if needed

I am all in too! It would be nice to chit chat again!

I'm all for it kyar^^
I was just thinking the same thing after seeing trou posting
something about it and I am up to try seeing if people can be
mature enough to reply to that thread again.
and if anything we can do a trial to see how things go.
I also suggest the same thing for ttay thread as well c:

I'm always there for support if you need me!
Users have been acting way more mature than before on the thread so I think it'd be a nice idea. As long as users are well-behaved about the rule I don't think there will be any problems about it(Not to mention if they don't spam the thread...). I also agree with KittyKat about the TTAY thread but wouldn't it be better if we only started focusing on the TRT for now before moving on to the TTAY ?

I'm definitely voting for this.

Most people had a lovely camaraderie going and it was nice to be able to sympathise with someone who had a similar trade issue.

As long as the rule is that you CAN reply, but you also need to add your own rant so it can be a genuine answer and not spam.

{I agree to that rule
When I ran the GTT a long time ago, thats one of the rules I used. and it honestly keep the spam from coming and kept out the side chit chats that weren't needed

I like it too, that's what I always tried to do when I replied on the TRT

I agree that it should be removed. But there's also those people who would make short or unneeded responses like 'my eyes!' Or those people who picked fights. I don't think we should all be banned for the immaturity of others. I mean, a rule already set is not to reply to a rant about you, and if someone's lying, report them. Ya know? I think it should be back to that we can reply and just report the ones who wanna be immature...

-- edited. Sorry, my phone was auto correcting words and making this look funny. :3 ---

Count me in :)

I agree. Hopefully, they'll reinstate replying to rants as long as you have a rant, and it's kept professional, with no languages, and no use of name calling or listing names.

Hopefully they allow replying to rants.

Oh I'm for this. c:
I used to post there because it helped feel like a community, but now I'm reluctant to because now it seems almost like more complaint, without the sympathy and such.
Does that sound weird?
I dunno.
I just wish I could reply to posts again. ;P

[Topiratti]

Username: Topiratti
Do you agree that the no-reply rule should be removed? (Y/N) Yes
Brief description of your stance: (1-2 sentences)

I can understand why they removed the replying from the TRT. However, it's quite hard not to reply especially if it's also occurred to us as well. As long as the players who reply to the TRT have a rant themselves, don't use any names, and keep it within CS rules, I don't see any problems. Replying back with OMG eyes are burning, or that's such an idiotic trade, etc shouldn't be used.

I don't know if mods have the ability to block players from posting on certain threads or not, however, maybe a ban system? Temporarily ban players who continually break the rules regarding to ranting for a bit?

Can't wait to hear what others have to say.

[Kyar]

I get what you're saying about the ban system but I don't know that mods can actually block people from posting on a given thread. I haven't heard of it at least and I'm really not sure how that works.

Regardless though I still find myself reporting posts that break rules other than just the not replying rule (i.e. ranting about NFT pets) and often when I go to report posts they've already been reported.
I'm sure a large part of this is that the users who know that the posts are breaking the rules know that they can't reply to them or they would be breaking another rule themselves.
It seems to me that before everyone was under the impression that they needed to tell people what rule they broke when a rule was broken and I feel like most of the time the posts didn't even get reported.
There are definitely users newer to the thread - and ones who might join on later - who wouldn't have this new practice of reporting spam posts but I feel like if we could make sure that everyone just reported and didn't reply to the rule breaking posts that would cut out a ton of spam. I think most of us are pretty well practiced in it now and with many people who frequent the thread as Tru had suggested it would be easier for us to regulate and report posts. If there got to be a problem with people quoting rules again or replying to spam or rule breaking posts we could always PM them too rather than furthering the spam on the thread.

[spencer]

Username: Fireblossom
Do you agree that the no-reply rule should be removed? (Y/N) Yes, definitely.
Brief description of your stance: (1-2 sentences)
I used to be active in the TRT before the replies were banned. It was fun to discuss bad trades with other users in that thread and at first I didn't understand why there was a rule that didn't allow replies anymore but now I do. But I also think that all people in the TRT have learned their lesson and it's time to try removing the rule. I noticed that the number of rulebreakers died down because the thread is watched more closely and I agree with you all, it would be great if the no-reply-rule was removed.

[Patch.]

Username:
Patch.
Do you agree that the no-reply rule should be removed?
Yes, I very much agree.
Brief description of your stance:
I've already been graciously quoted above, and I don't like to sound redundant when I say things. Anyway, I agree that the rule should be removed simply because I don't believe all players should be barred from replying just because others think that they can pick fights on a thread and start things. I'd also like to point out the people who only replied to a rant to say something like, 'My eyes!' or "Oh my god, it burns!'. Really? That's just...a waste of a post in my eyes. The point of replying is to maybe discuss a common problem, such as people not knowing about the Rare's List updates that have been up for sometime. (Yes, I know that the front page of the List will not be updated until the UR Aussie, Ice Cat and Flower are placed.) That's just an example. I don't think those who follow the rules otherwise should be punished too.
Also, it would be nice, since I've seen this, if people could kindly correct those who 'are wrong'. For instance, someone complains about a trade not being fair...when it is? Or the other user is actually overpaying? I'm not saying that person should be gang attacked, but someone could point the problem out kindly? I know users that are new to trading read the thread. Maybe they'd be influenced and think that, because the one person complained that their trade was unfair (when it wasn't), they might believe that any future trades received by themselves will be 'unfair' because they might think that the person complaining knows how to trade. I just feel that way. I've done things, such as PM a user making a 'false rant', and though some have been kind and thanked me for pointing out their mistake, others either ignored me or called me a liar. I think conversations should be allowed to teach others about how to trade properly and not just shoot down those who are new at the whole idea. (Sorry, as usual, I ramble when I have a hard time getting to the point.)
I do think the rule should be removed. I miss talking to my fellow...Chicken Smoothians (er..)? Several people I get along with well post on that regularly.

/sorry for the rambling...

[ziggy.stardust]

Username: ziggy.stardust
Do you agree that the no-reply rule should be removed? I do support the idea :)
Brief description of your stance:
I'm a tad bit conflicted about this, because I partly feel as soon as the rule was lifted, the same things would start happening again.
I think it is a little sad to just see rant after rant, with no positive interaction on the thread. I think as long as people were mature about it, it would be a great idea to have the rule lifted.
People indirectly reply already, by ranting about the same subject and adding their experiences. I don't really see the difference between this and being able to put in a direct quote.

However, the majority of CS is younger players, and I feel that comments like "ouch" and "that sucks!" would start appearing. I believe that the rule was enforced before I made my account, but I used to watch the people I knew outside of CS discuss on the thread so I have an okay understanding of what it was like. I agree that if the rule was lifted there would need to be new rules about adding your own rant when replying, although also feel that that might be seen as an invitation to posts like:

-ranting here-

That's awful!

-completely unrelated rant here-

From what I did see, I never saw arguments so I can't really give input on that.
I would love to be able to reply on the thread, but if the same problems were to occur again, the rule should be added back in.

[Kyar]

Don't worry about rambling Patch - you brought up a good point. There have been several times I've seen people "rant" about getting overpay offers on their event pets saying "Look at this crazy demand!" which to me sounds a lot more like they're excited about what they were offered than they are upset about demand.
Or I've also seen it where a user gets a fair trade that they just don't like so they post it as a rant?
I like your idea of gently pointing it out but like you said - some people take it really badly. I'm not sure what to do about that but it's definitely a good thing to bring up. :)

Edit:
Yeah I see what you're saying ziggy and I think you're right. There are definitely those "My eyes!" users still out there but if we just report those posts hopefully it won't become too much of a problem.

I think the worst part is not being able to agree with someone - like if they post about a certain situation that just drives you up a wall too it's a little bit annoying to not be able to chime in. I feel like with what you said - about adding your own rant or adding a personal rant in connection to the one being discussed - it could definitely stay on topic. :)

[Tybalt]

Username: Tybalt
Do you agree that the no-
reply rule should be removed?
(Y/N) Yes.
Brief description of your
stance: I've always believed that the whole point of the TRT was to not just post rants, but also sympathise with other players. I used to be very active on it, and it used to be a very friendly place. Not just that, but, for example, when scammers appeared, it was a great place to find out if other people were getting scammed too and talk about dealing with it. I understand why they have placed the rule, but if they changed it to 'No one word replies' I think it would be a better thread.