CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

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CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Guardian85 » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:08 pm

So, I commonly see ppl who try trading and then say on forums "i don't know much about trading..." or something to that extent.

Here's the thing. I think those here on CS who have been around since at least 2010 have WAY over complicated it. Most don't have a clue what the difference between an MA and a NON is... and frankly, I've been here since 2012 and I have no idea either. I haven't been able to figure it out even with looking at rarity guides across the board. It just seems like gibberish to me.

I have pieced together what a NON is, but I still have no idea what an MA is and no one seems to bother having explained it in some guide or anything. So here's the thing. I have figured out a FAIR WAY to deal with trades across the board.

It's a very dumbed down version of what some think of Rarity Math to be when it comes to higher end pets like the Sunback. It seems to me, however, that this is the only way to actively try and trade for such pets that are higher tier than rare.


It's the math that I use every time I enter a trade.


So here's my guide to trading... it's not official by any means but it makes the MOST sense to me. I use three different variations.
Why three? Because sometimes a trade doesn't include same year pets and sometimes there's events involved.

First Version

Variation one is the most simplest version I use, and honestly believe that everyone should use.

1 very common = 2 omg so common
1 common = 2 very common
1 uncommon = 2 common
1 rare = 2 uncommon
1 very rare = 2 rare
1 omgsr = 2 very rare

So then, what happens if someone wants... say a rare... but they don't have 2 uncommons? This is when the rule of x2 comes in. For every step up the latter, 2 more of a lower rung must be accounted for.

So then someone wanting a rare might instead offer 4 common pets for a rare instead of the 2 uncommon, or 2 common pets and one uncommon.

The number of pets being offered from a lower tier MUST add up to the tier they're replacing. That said, no one probably wants 8 omgsc to be offered for a rare, even though that is a fair and equivalent exchange.



Second Version

The second version is easier than the first to usually calculate. This involves Event Pets. Event Pets are limited in being distributed as they only appear in either limited quantities OR for a limited time. A recent example of limited time is the Easter Pets, while an example of limited quality is the Pizza themed dogs that were released as a user could only adopt 3 total even though they were available to be adopted for several weeks.

The only thing I do for Event Pets when in a trade is that I take their original rarity and move it up by one tier. So an uncommon Event Pet is calculated as a Rare and so on and so forth. This calculation is only in effect IF the pets being offered in return are NOT EVENT. Otherwise the rarity math used for calculation is either the one above or the one below.

Third Version


The third and final one can get tricky.

Why? Because it involves calculating year difference.

Pets that fall within the same 2 year block are equal. For example:

2015 Common Dog = 2014 Common Dog



It isn't hard to figure out which years are together as when looking at the archives, the years match up into 2 year blocks pretty evenly. Making it pretty easy to figure out which years go together in a block. For those who aren't sure or still need help figuring this out, here is the 2 year block guide:

2008/2009
2010/2011
2012/2013
2014/2015
2016/2017
2018/2019
2020/2021
2022/2023*


* Yes I know at the time of this post we haven't reached 2023 but this is just to make it easy


So then let's say someone wants a 2015 Uncommon Dog that is not an event. How would they do that if they don't have a 2015 or 2014 pet?

While having a same year pet to trade is ideal, it's not always possible, especially for those who are new to the site. It's relatively impossible.

To figure out the math on this one, depends on what the user has to offer. There are a lot of combinations, but the simple rule of thumb HERE is to factor in the x2 rule I mentioned previously in version one.

So, ideally, for the 2015 Uncommon Dog, the one who wants the pet can offer up 1 2016 Rare or 2 2016 Uncommon.

In short, to get the 2015 Uncommon Dog (Non Event) the one offering for it bumps up the tier of the pet they want in comparison to what they have to offer. Much like when calculating Event versus non-event pets of the same year.

This math, however, can get very tricky when calculating Event Pet worth along side Non-Event Pets. Especially if someone offers multiple different years for older pets.

I've had trades where someone wants a 2014 Rare Event I have (which, remember, makes it a 2014 Very Rare) with a slew of uncommon, event, common and even very common pets from a range of years from 2017 all the way up to 2022.

THIS is when the math takes time to do. While it's not ideal that someone is handed a trade like this, that does not mean the trade is unfair!

In fact, it can be quite fair! This means, of course, that to be fair, the other side of the trade could end up with anywhere from 20 pets to nearly 60 depending on the factors of Event and years used.

Is this annoying? Possibly. Does it involve a lot of work to figure out? Not really, no. The most time I've spent figuring out a trade to see if it was equivalent using this rarity math was a couple of minutes.




OMGSR Christmas

I wanted to cover these pets separately because, frankly, they shouldn't be counted as List pets. Why? Because it's a DELIBERATE move on the part of the creators to create a scarcity of pets for no reason other than to make the very few who get them feel special.

Are they worth all the fuss? Not to me. In fact, I DISLIKE a lot of the omgsr Christmas pets. To me they aren't pets. FOOD isn't a pet... it's something you eat.

Other people might feel differently, and that's okay, but to me, the food pets have zero worth and them being omgsr is just some big joke. There's really nothing cute about a bunch of grapes that went rotten, a burnt banana or a slice of pie. It's just... silly to me and not worth my notice.

I think that these pets, even the ones that are animals, should be slotted under the same category as the Store Pets, which, if you (the reader) did not know. Are NOT OFFICAL. That's right. For collecting purposes they're not official one bit and this has been stated by those who run this site. Rather, they say that they aren't on the official list, even though they show up in the Archives same as any pet. So it's basically a bonus thing, which is how I believe those pets should be handled.

I'm also of the opinion that these pets don't need to be given the omgsr rarity right out the of the gate. Why? Because that makes them ridiculously hard to obtain the year that follows their release. Not just because they're limited in number, but because those who have them and are offering them out hike up the "price" of what they want in return. Which is anywhere from 10 Rares on up... which isn't its value as an OMGSR = 2 VR = 4 Rares of the same year. Some treat them as events (which they aren't because they're handouts to a select group of users and not accessible by everyone) which, at MOST, boost them up to a value of 6 Rares.
Not 10, not 15, not 20.... SIX.


Christmas Re-Releases

Yeah... so apparently someone got the idea to release old pets. The thing is, I don't think they realized in the beginning that a lot of collectors want the authentic thing... which are called True Dates. There's nothing wrong with these pets as far as I can see, they're considered to be the same worth as the True Dates. Though I can probably almost guarantee that most collectors don't see them that way. Because to them it's not the same as owning that 2010 horse that was released in 2010. It's a carbon copy.

Was it a good idea? Maybe. It's up to the traders to decide if it's worth it or not.
[This was edited 6/21/22 because out of all the years I've been here I found 1 person who didn't mind trading a TD for a Re-Release. Just 1.]

Popularity

I get it, people are going to like some pets over others. It's a given that pets like Dragons are more highly sought out than say Rats.

This, is something I NEVER factor into my math.

Why? Because it's personal opinion.

One person might hand off a Rare Dragon for 15 Deer or maybe they like Llamas instead...

This whole what's popular thing should NEVER factor into Rarity Math because everyone has some different idea about what "the best pet" is.


Hoarding

This generally has nothing to do with math at all.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuttt some people - especially some who hand out free pets. Like to stick it in because they want to try and spread pets out as much as possible.

For those handing out free pets, it makes perfect sense. For personal trades? It has nothing to do with anything.

However, it IS A PROBLEM on this site. People decide they like how cute a sleeping pet is... or fancy that newly colored deer more than any other pet and want more of it.

I'm not against hoarding. What I am against, however is those who hoard Rares.

Yeah. I've seen people with tabs that say "hoard" and you go in and they have 20+ of the same RARE PET.

To me, this isn't fair in the least. Not just because that pet is on my personal Wish List... but what about others who joins the site?

According to Nick - one of the more popular artists on this site- there is ONE pet per 25 people for each Rare.
Don't believe me? Here's the post with the quote: https://www.chickensmoothie.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=784157&start=0

It outlines how many pets there are per user for each rarity.

So if one user has 20 of the same pet that's Rare... that's 500 other people who have to miss out on completing their list because someone thinks that one pet is cute and they thus "must have 20+" of it... and the more pets that one person hoards the higher that number gets... I even saw one person once who had about 100 of them... robbing 2,500 users (myself included) of being able to add that pet to our list.
Last edited by Guardian85 on Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Juliamon » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:21 pm

While I have no desire to debate the merits and flaws of your system, I would nevertheless like to ask how you justify having a "Staff-for-Staff swap ONLY, NO EXCEPTIONS" group when a staff pet litter isn't any different than any other monthly litter other than having increased popularity--which you say you do not factor into your math. Shouldn't I be able to offer a September monthly cat of the same year/rarity?
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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Nicnova » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:25 am

I have pieced together what a NON is, but I still have no idea what an MA is and no one seems to bother having explained it in some guide or anything.


The guide: Forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4470908


TLDR; A MA (or Mid-Advent) is worth between 6 and 9 rares from the year 2009.


Unfortunately, if your trading system is vastly different from everyone else's you won't get many successful trades. Your system does work for pets that are rare and under, but it would be hard to get by with this regarding rarer pets.

The only thing I do for Event Pets when in a trade is that I take their original rarity and move it up by one tier. So an uncommon Event Pet is calculated as a Rare and so on and so forth. This calculation is only in effect IF the pets being offered in return are NOT EVENT. Otherwise the rarity math used for calculation is either the one above or the one below.


Event pets are worth their rarity tag, no more and no less. This actually makes trading more complicated, imo.

Other people might feel differently, and that's okay, but to me, the food pets have zero worth and them being omgsr is just some big joke. There's really nothing cute about a bunch of grapes that went rotten, a burnt banana or a slice of pie. It's just... silly to me and not worth my notice.


Just because you don't like these pets doesn't make them any less OMGSR. The user-made lists are simply a collection of the rarest pets on the site, so just this tag is enough for them to qualify. There is no "official" list, they are all user-made as guides.

which, at MOST, boost them up to a value of 6 Rares.


They are way more valuable than this, sorry.


Was it a good idea? Maybe, but I've yet to find anyone who is willing to hand over a Rare 2009 pet for a Christmas Re-Release.


I've found plenty.

Yeah. I've seen people with tabs that say "hoard" and you go in and they have 20+ of the same RARE PET.

To me, this isn't fair in the least. Not just because that pet is on my personal Wish List... but what about others who joins the site?


These users pay fairly for these pets, just like anyone else who wants to trade for them.
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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Genba » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:36 am

Was it a good idea? Maybe, but I've yet to find anyone who is willing to hand over a Rare 2009 pet for a Christmas Re-Release.


Uhh, I know lots of users who don't care about the date of a pet. Me included. It is the same pixels, it just sits at a different place. And while I know a lot of people disagree on that, TD and rereleases are worth the same to me.

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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby RedAutumnLeaf » Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:49 am

To be honest this post seems like it's just venting frustrations about not wanting to dig into the complexities of trading that have been on the site for over a decade. There are reasons we have pet values the way they are, whether or not they're justified by actual pet counts (which we know will never be released).

Especially given how salty the tone is for some of the things OP said, I can't really take this guide very seriously (especially with what was said about the UR foods?? a lot of people like them and they aren't VR/OMGSR for no reason, there's genuinely not that many on the site, just like any other VR/OMGSR pet).

As someone very active on the site in the 2012-2015 era, it's certainly sometimes overwhelming to understand all that's changed with the site's economy over the years (especially having left in 2017 and only recently coming back to some MASSIVE changes). Nonetheless, that complexity is just what happens when you have a user-created economy! There IS room for variation in trading systems because people trade on a person-to-person basis. People value things differently, but you can still respect those different valuations while still recognizing and going along with wider trends (i.e. most users event pets more than monthly releases for aesthetic reasons).
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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Guardian85 » Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:14 pm

Juliamon wrote:While I have no desire to debate the merits and flaws of your system, I would nevertheless like to ask how you justify having a "Staff-for-Staff swap ONLY, NO EXCEPTIONS" group when a staff pet litter isn't any different than any other monthly litter other than having increased popularity--which you say you do not factor into your math. Shouldn't I be able to offer a September monthly cat of the same year/rarity?



Personal preference on the type I receive. It's not different than asking an Event Pet in return for another Event Pet. Doesn't effect the rarity math.


Nicnova wrote:
I have pieced together what a NON is, but I still have no idea what an MA is and no one seems to bother having explained it in some guide or anything.


The guide: Forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4470908


TLDR; A MA (or Mid-Advent) is worth between 6 and 9 rares from the year 2009.


Unfortunately, if your trading system is vastly different from everyone else's you won't get many successful trades. Your system does work for pets that are rare and under, but it would be hard to get by with this regarding rarer pets.

The only thing I do for Event Pets when in a trade is that I take their original rarity and move it up by one tier. So an uncommon Event Pet is calculated as a Rare and so on and so forth. This calculation is only in effect IF the pets being offered in return are NOT EVENT. Otherwise the rarity math used for calculation is either the one above or the one below.


Event pets are worth their rarity tag, no more and no less. This actually makes trading more complicated, imo.

Other people might feel differently, and that's okay, but to me, the food pets have zero worth and them being omgsr is just some big joke. There's really nothing cute about a bunch of grapes that went rotten, a burnt banana or a slice of pie. It's just... silly to me and not worth my notice.


Just because you don't like these pets doesn't make them any less OMGSR. The user-made lists are simply a collection of the rarest pets on the site, so just this tag is enough for them to qualify. There is no "official" list, they are all user-made as guides.

which, at MOST, boost them up to a value of 6 Rares.


They are way more valuable than this, sorry.


Was it a good idea? Maybe, but I've yet to find anyone who is willing to hand over a Rare 2009 pet for a Christmas Re-Release.


I've found plenty.

Yeah. I've seen people with tabs that say "hoard" and you go in and they have 20+ of the same RARE PET.

To me, this isn't fair in the least. Not just because that pet is on my personal Wish List... but what about others who joins the site?


These users pay fairly for these pets, just like anyone else who wants to trade for them.




I'm not in the habit of picking apart other people's posts for my own justifcation/enjoyment/whatever reason you might have had for doing this.

That's the only response you're going to get from me from your varied responses to every part of this.


RedAutumnLeaf wrote:
To be honest this post seems like it's just venting frustrations about not wanting to dig into the complexities of trading that have been on the site for over a decade. There are reasons we have pet values the way they are, whether or not they're justified by actual pet counts (which we know will never be released).

Especially given how salty the tone is for some of the things OP said, I can't really take this guide very seriously (especially with what was said about the UR foods?? a lot of people like them and they aren't VR/OMGSR for no reason, there's genuinely not that many on the site, just like any other VR/OMGSR pet).

As someone very active on the site in the 2012-2015 era, it's certainly sometimes overwhelming to understand all that's changed with the site's economy over the years (especially having left in 2017 and only recently coming back to some MASSIVE changes). Nonetheless, that complexity is just what happens when you have a user-created economy! There IS room for variation in trading systems because people trade on a person-to-person basis. People value things differently, but you can still respect those different valuations while still recognizing and going along with wider trends (i.e. most users event pets more than monthly releases for aesthetic reasons).



You read way too much into all that.

I'm not salty in the least. Annoyed at some things from the past? Maybe, but not bitter over them like you're implying; I'm not dwelling on them or ranting about them. This is - in fact - the very first post I've made about this since I started playing CS in 2012. But I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about what is or isn't fact about my post because you probably aren't going to agree for one reason or another.

Whether or not you use it is up to you. I didn't post this to force anyone to use it, just as a simple guide to make all the confusion in trades I've found just a little easier to understand. That's it.
Last edited by Raire on Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged your posts. Please use the edit function instead of double-posting.
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Have pets you don't want? Consider donating to my adopt center! All accepted! High rarities/old years are raffled off!

I always read posted rules, period. I'm not responsible if you change them after I've sent the trade. I'm a returning player from a hiatus from 2016, if you have pets from the 2016 - 2021 on my WL I'm open to trades, please read my rules. Ty for clicks.

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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby bugbaby » Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:58 pm

Guardian85 wrote:
RedAutumnLeaf wrote:
To be honest this post seems like it's just venting frustrations about not wanting to dig into the complexities of trading that have been on the site for over a decade. There are reasons we have pet values the way they are, whether or not they're justified by actual pet counts (which we know will never be released).

Especially given how salty the tone is for some of the things OP said, I can't really take this guide very seriously (especially with what was said about the UR foods?? a lot of people like them and they aren't VR/OMGSR for no reason, there's genuinely not that many on the site, just like any other VR/OMGSR pet).

As someone very active on the site in the 2012-2015 era, it's certainly sometimes overwhelming to understand all that's changed with the site's economy over the years (especially having left in 2017 and only recently coming back to some MASSIVE changes). Nonetheless, that complexity is just what happens when you have a user-created economy! There IS room for variation in trading systems because people trade on a person-to-person basis. People value things differently, but you can still respect those different valuations while still recognizing and going along with wider trends (i.e. most users event pets more than monthly releases for aesthetic reasons).



You read way too much into all that.

I'm not salty in the least. Annoyed at some things from the past? Maybe, but not bitter over them like you're implying; I'm not dwelling on them or ranting about them. This is - in fact - the very first post I've made about this since I started playing CS in 2012. But I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about what is or isn't fact about my post because you probably aren't going to agree for one reason or another.

Whether or not you use it is up to you. I didn't post this to force anyone to use it, just as a simple guide to make all the confusion in trades I've found just a little easier to understand. That's it.

you've been on cs since 2012, so if you want to adhere to your own trading rules then there's nothing wrong with that
however some of the things you've put in your rules aren't factual according to the site itself and could confuse newer users trying to trade, especially regarding the urs that get released every year
i guess what i'm trying to say is, if you didn't want to receive opinions on the trading rules you devised why post in in a public forum where everyone can comment on it?
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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Serial designation N » Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:51 am

Is the list annoying? Yes. But I don’t personally see how trading like this would be any better than using the list to trade. This just comes off as a rant especially because of how you value ur food pets. Obviously,they don’t have “no value” because they are food. Saying something like this is way more confusing to new players than a rarity guide. Omgsr pets are omgsr because of the pet number on the site. It’s not random. If a new food pet is released and it’s the first time that pet is in the Dec 18 box, than it is likely for it to be omgsr. Ur pets don’t always stay as omgsr as it’s rereleased more times through Dec 18th,but it’s definitely not random and omgsr pets do actually have lower amounts on the site than other pets. That’s why rarity is even a thing.
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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Nicnova » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:05 am

Guardian85 wrote:
I'm not in the habit of picking apart other people's posts for my own justifcation/enjoyment/whatever reason you might have had for doing this.

That's the only response you're going to get from me from your varied responses to every part of this.


If you don't want a discussion, then why post in the discussion forum? That doesn't make any sense. This is simply a collection of my thoughts as I read your post, and I simply felt like writing them because this is a discussion forum. If you don't want other people's opinions, and just think "my way or no way!!" then I don't think this is a very fruitful discussion thread.

I also wanted to make sure that new users that come across this thread don't get confused.
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Re: CS Trading - Simple Versions I Use

Postby Lanayru » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:43 am

Without getting into the topic of whether people should follow the list or not (because I strictly believe that is your choice as an user to make and there is no right or wrong answer)... I do have a small issue with the 2:1 math you posted especially in regards to the UR Foods. For ease of reference I will quote your post here:

1 very common = 2 omg so common
1 common = 2 very common
1 uncommon = 2 common
1 rare = 2 uncommon
1 very rare = 2 rare
1 omgsr = 2 very rare


For comparison here is a post from Nick you refer to later on - as both you and the thread say, it is old and somewhat outdated but we can still use it as a reference point:

Right now the rarities are:
OMG so rare! (less than 1 pet per 1000 users)
Very rare (less than 1 pet per 80 users)
Rare (less than 1 pet per 25 users)
Uncommon (less than 1 pet per 5.5 users)
Common (less than 1 pet per 3 users)
Very common (more than 1 pet per 3 users)
OMG so common (???)


Note that the 2:1 math adds up... well enough up to the uncommon/rare territory - no problems here. Uncommon --> rare and rare --> very rare are a slightly larger jump than the 2:1 math warrants but not TOO drastic (ignoring certain exceptions like list VRs which are genuinely rarer). However where it falls apart is very rare --> OMG so rare. ~1 pet per 1000 users is MUCH less than ~1 per 80, meaning OMGSRs are so much rarer than VRs that we reasonably cannot apply the 2:1 rule here as the math just does not add up. Additionally, you yourself say that popularity should not be taken into account when it comes to trading values due to its subjectivity but then use your own personal feelings to devalue the UR Foods further.

This is NOT intended to be rude or devalue your feelings on trading or the Rares' List, but I feel like it is a very important thing to take into account especially if you intend to refer any newer players to this guide.
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Lanayru
 
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