*DISCONTINUED* Rares List Guide (1 March 2019)

[DaDwarf]

The reason the name 'big gap' was never changed is because its a marker rather then what it was meant to be now. Because changing that word can cause confusion, moving it can get people to think that their pet is suddenly worthless or worth more because its now above or below the gap. Many people spoke up about not moving/changing the gaps name.

We already have markers of the list, low middle and high (as seen on the gaps list itself.) If the gap is to change (which we will need to run a poll on) I suggest we go with that and not make something new again.

I'm against changing tiers into alphabetical order. Simply because this is the order people are used to. It's not alphabetical but a lot of people know the tiers by heart and i don't see an issue with the way it is now. New pets get added to the tiers last so people can easily check which are new. It'll be a huge undertaking having to add pets in alphabetical and editing this already huge list is already a bit of a thing. Regardless, i also feel like this should be something asked in a poll. is there really a need for this?

[Shinryu]

I think the confusion that could stem from changing the term for the "gap" is much less significant, especially in the long run, than the confusion that already stemmed from, and still comes from having it named the way it is.
I've seen comments like the ones on the last few pages every single time the topic of the gap came up in a conversation. It's always people going "wait THAT'S what the gap means?"
I always see more people not knowing the meaning, than people who do.

I'm pretty sure that the people who do understand the actual meaning of the gap will have a much easier time adjusting to a new term (and understanding it's nothing more than a name change) and more accurate placement, than it is for newcomers/people who are mistaken about the meaning to find out what it's really about.
If people really got confused to the point where they think their pets are worth less, that seems to me like an indicator that they didn't understand the gap in the first place.
And as mean as it might sound to say it, but sometimes correcting a thing in the name of accuracy does mean people will have to suck it up. When CS changed its rarity system, tons of pets dropped in rarity, people 'lost' rares they had to it. But at the end of the day, they never really had rares, they had uncommons that the system mistook for rares due to its flaws.
Correcting the list will inevitably end up disappointing some people, but saying we shouldn't try just so that people can continue to believe in the inaccuracies would defeat the point of updating the list.

Similarly, I don't think the inconvenience from re-arranging the name order on the list would be significant.
In the long run it's a bit more practical for people trying to scan a big tier for a particular pet, and it really isn't that hard to get used to it.
Personally I've been looking up pets on the list for years and still have to ctrl + f for advent pets because the tiers are big clusters of names that I can't be bothered to scan through.

[lil rascal]

Are there going to be options of between tiers? E.g. between UR Aussie and coontail? Or are we trying to keep the number of tiers entirely set.

I believe that we are trying to use the tiers that are already in place since adding new tiers is not always necessary and it can make things even more complicated than they need to be. This was actually one of the first questions I had about the list.

There have been new tiers added in the past couple of years but those were due to strange circumstances.

Personally I don't like the idea of adding more tiers as I feel the more structured the list is the less fluid trading is. If anything we should be combining tiers of pets really close in value IMO.


I would like to suggest a few pets for furture discussion:

~ Bumblebee Spider (known back then as Racecar Spider), turned VR Feb 2010 at the same time as the scarf pps and months before the cake dogs, Joker, Palomino Tess Horse and many other September Lists yet we have it as a tier 1 advent.

~ White Dragon, released as a special release Nov '09, as far as I can find it was VR since rarities came out, maybe someone else can find reference to a rarity change? post comparing how hard the White Dragons were to get to Zebras Dec '09, Dec '09 Moonflight, a staff member at the time, stating White Dragons were 5 times rarer than Grey Dragons on CS, Reading through that thread there seems to be a misconception that the white dragons will be re-released but not the Greys, as we know they are all re-released so I think it's fairly safe to assume the Whites are still about 5 times as rare as the Greys. First forum post I can find mentioning it's VR rarity, Jan '10 Wayback Machine March '10. The grey dragon at the time was still only rare Wayback Machine for grey dragon March '10

~ While we're on the topic of dragons, the Grey & Red Dragons apparently turned VR at the same time as each other, in June '10

~ Joker Dog, I know a lot of people know it's only as high as it is due to demand, but how many people know just how common it is compared to September lists? It actually went VR May '10 after the scarf PPS & most cake dogs & the same time as the Floppy Pink September.

~ Red Rose Dog, didn't turn VR until May 2011, 2 months after most of the tier 7 advents. The Red Rose current placement has it being worth 5 mid-advents. Does it really deserve to be so much higher than pets worth more than it?

~ Light Leopard, didn't turn VR until September 2011, months after most advent lists. In fact the only normal adopt advent lists that turned after the light leopard were the Pink/Purple/white Tess Horse, Candycane Tess Horse, Spiderwing Butterfly Wolf & grown scarf dogs. Yet light leopards are listed as being worth 2 mid-advents + an '09 rare.

There are heaps more advent & September lists hugely out of place but I don't want to overwhelm you guys so I'll leave it at these for now

[SabrinaB]

If something wasbt an issue in the past doesnt mean it isnt an issue now. From the last few pages it shows people dont know that 'big gap' doesnt mean there is a big gap between the tiers. People dont read entire posts, they read the list. And the term 'big gap' is misleading. If people want it changed or alphabetical tiers there should be a poll for it.
It is a community list and not a list hosted by 1 person. People speak their mind now, even though most are afraid to because they are afraid to be shoved aside.
We should listen more.
People say they wat to change it. Host a poll and listen to them.
There are a few people who know the list by head, not a lot.
Many use the pictured list or ssearch function.
If that is a arfument, then why move pets? People know by head where it is, so moving pets messes it up anyway. Also not a valid argument imo.
Listen to people, host a poll and live with the results. Be open to them, dont scare them off.

[fιяєfℓу]

When are we going to discuss omgsrs?

[houndoom]

im actually curious about the red rose too. i always thought it was put on the september list because...it is literally a september pet i do remember it being hoarded back in the day, but honestly, based on the rarity change alone, it could be knocked down a few pegs.

the white malk dragon is indeed the hardest one to find, i can attest for that, and it always has been for as long as i can remember it. worth a discussion too.

i dont understand the light leopard's placement. i cant recall it ever having had any particular demand either, so i believe it is yet another case of being placed on the september list because...its a september pet ? 😂

@sabrinab i understand what you mean, but i think if we are revamping the list anyway, why not do it properly? discussions never hurt, and i could stand seeing some misplaced pets be moved so it can properly reflect their worth. i do agree on the poll thing, keeping things community oriented is the way to go.

[SabrinaB]

I am not saying we shouldnt move them, that part was sarcastic. We move pets all the time, i see no harm in changing the term of 'big gap' to something less misleading.
And what is wrong with making it alphabetical? The archive is in order of month, the species and artist are alphabetical. Everything has an order, why not this? I think many find the order of pets a mess. People get used to it soon enough if we do.

[Shinryu]

For some of the pets that went from rare to very rare in the 2010/2011 timeframe I'll be really interested in seeing the rarity count project's numbers for re-releases in subsequent years tbh.
Tess said that the vast majority of probabilities don't actually get tweaked, which may have helped some pets balance out a little.

For reference, when rarities were introduced in October 09, the CE Galaxy was rare, whereas the majority of easter 09 banner buns were already very rare.

I will love to see some numbers from various re-releases that'll help us estimate how many list pets were re-released compared to each other and to what extent some of the rarity gaps may or may not have been corrected.
The rarity project's 08 estimates already give a clue this might've happened, or else the speckled rats would still be omgsr, considering they ended up counted in smaller numbers than the sunjewel. (Chances are they were never supposed to end up being more rare than the 'jewel and just did so due to not being adopted as often, so after several re-releases they'd have gone down in rarity while the jewel, which actually had a lower probability, stayed up.)

The original numbers after initial releases were always influenced by the popularity of the litter, whereas users do not control what they get on re-releases. The Joker is a great example of this, actually. It was rare because someone adopted a massive amount of card pups before we got adoption limits, so it allowed more Jokers to be released initially. But nowadays, with only re-releases as a supply, it is significantly harder to get and the thing that caused it to start rare cannot be replicated.

[ElementalInsanity]

Hi there wow there was four or so pages for me to catch up on so let me address things in points and quickly.

-I’ll add those with a link to your post little rascal? They’ll be at the bottom of the discussion list for now. =)

- with as many people that have come forward about being confused about the big gap saying that people will get confused if we change it isn’t quite valid. Every single person so far that’s popped up or talked about this issue has been for changing it, I don’t see a need for a poll tbh just a decision to how we change it.

- again, I don’t understand the argument that just because some people have tiers memorized we shouldn’t change it to alphabetical order which in the long run is a smarter idea. Mozzy already has the advent list worked up? Tiers in the advent and September list are ordered by tiers now anyways, so it’s not like it would be some terrible drastic change.
Everyone so far posting aside one has been for this change as well that I’ve seen. That’s over about four pages too.

All in all, I feel those two suggestions should be implemented since so many people agree with it already just from posting, don’t see a need to run a poll for them. We don’t have to run a poll for every single thing. We didn’t with the ‘number tiers’ suggestion because so many people agreed so idk why we would have to now.

- as regards to the options you listed of Aussie to sunjewel lil rascal I’m indifferent tbh right now either way. I’ll see what others feel and if I gain an opinion lol.
Currently I’d like to get things rolling so we can again get into a fairly good routine of placing pets since we’ve got so many.

[DaDwarf]

i think big changes such as removing the gap and changing the actual list lay-out do require a poll, because when this issue was first brought up people did not want the title of 'the big gap' to change. People didn't even want it to be just called 'the gap'. It takes a minute to set up a poll, and you can run it for a mere week to get a good community vote on it. I don't see why not, we decided that we'd do things the community way, i see more and more backing out of using the poll for 'simple' yet massive impact things.

I'd like to point out that the reason people still feel you get jumped if you don't agree is because it happens so frequently. Look at the past page. It's oke not to agree with one another. If you want to make people feel heard then you have to be oke with people actually voicing their opinions. If i say i don't agree with something that means just that.That doesn't mean it wont happen or it won't be implemented, it means that i, as a member of this community, don't agree with something and ask for a poll to make sure this is something the majority of CS wants, not just the majority of the people who read this thread.

Changing the list to alphabetical order is a big undertaking when it comes to editing. If we do another big run of adding pets it'll take me more then just a few minutes to add them, and how will people easily see which new pets got added? As was said, people don't read the first post, they read just the list so then there will have to be more coding to show which pets were new. I see this very easily becoming an editing nightmare.The list is already hard to edit (a nightmare on mobile) and with adding things alphabetically, i just don't see the added benefit as thread owner. If people really want it to be alphabetical then sure, but i want to make sure that people do want that. Not just the few people who post here, everybody. It's a big change.

Regardless of what i think, why not just run a poll on it and see what the community thinks? Why are we going back to going just off of what people on this thread say rather then community input? i don't really understand this line of thinking. The adding of the quotes on the sept and advn lists were just lay-out changes, but this is actually tossing pets around (might make people think pets got removed/moved) and removing one of the biggest markers in rareslist history (which im fine with btw, it was always misplaced) but are all people? why not just run a quick and simple poll to sort things out once and for all? no more going back and forth over it if we just poll it right?