[Susiron]

I just randomly decided to practice dragon wing anatomy, herp de derp. I've always had trouble with them, so practice is good. xD

To anyone that struggles with them as I always have, try to image the entire wing as a hand, rather than a random limb sticking out with stupid little sticks to hold the sails. That claw that sticks out at the top of the joint is the "thumb", and the long bits of flesh that hold the sails are the "fingers."
Since they are basically hands, they should connect like a hand does. So imagine that what you are looking at IS a hand. (with only three fingers for the right one, lol.) Now hold up your left hand and separate your fingers so that your thumb and fingers are mimicking the pose shown here. Now you get a general idea of where the digits will be placed.

Also note that the sails need to be LARGE. Dragons aren't light little humming birds-- they need GIRTH to their sails. In fact, a dragon's wing anatomy makes much more sense when it connects to the rump/tail, NOT when it concaves back in near the shoulder.

How do you know this for sure?

Well, what does a dragon's wing remind you of? Bats, right?
Well, where does a bat's wing sail connect? Does it curve back in under the armpit?
No, no it does not.

BAT WINGS:

http://susano.tripod.com/images/BAT4.GIF
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrate ... atwing.gif
http://cache2.artprintimages.com/p/LRG/ ... gascar.jpg

It's also good to have that little sail BEFORE the joints. It makes them more aerodynamic-- and it's just overall more visually pleasing, if you ask me.

Making a sail out of the thumb is personal preference.


Here's an excellent detailed muscle anatomy of a western dragon to top it off:
http://ersbethshadowsong.deviantart.com ... 8#/d3iy3c7


And to those that don't want to compare to a bat's wing because you think dragons can't be related to mammals, then what is your excuse for pterodactyls?
http://www.michaellandia.com/resources/Pterodactyl4.jpg

Again, they also demonstrate the enlargened sails.

[Breezeye]

How do you know this for sure?

Well, what does a dragon's wing remind you of? Bats, right?
Well, where does a bat's wing sail connect? Does it curve back in under the armpit?
No, no it does not.

BAT WINGS:

http://susano.tripod.com/images/BAT4.GIF
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrate ... atwing.gif
http://cache2.artprintimages.com/p/LRG/ ... gascar.jpg

You do know that bats are mammals and dragons are reptiles right?

Comparing a mammal to a reptile doesn't really work.

[Susiron]

How do you know this for sure?

Well, what does a dragon's wing remind you of? Bats, right?
Well, where does a bat's wing sail connect? Does it curve back in under the armpit?
No, no it does not.

BAT WINGS:

http://susano.tripod.com/images/BAT4.GIF
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrate ... atwing.gif
http://cache2.artprintimages.com/p/LRG/ ... gascar.jpg

You do know that bats are mammals and dragons are reptiles right?

Comparing a mammal to a reptile doesn't really work.

Actually, it really does.
You can compare the anatomy of almost all creatures to one another. We all have the same list of bones, only used in different ways.
Dragon wings are primarily based off of bat wings. Their anatomy goes hand in hand with it.

Besides, dinosaurs, supposedly great reptiles, are more akin to BIRDS than anything.
If a dinosaur can grow to develop wings, I'm pretty sure people can have enough brain power to use a bat's wings on a dragon.

And, besides the point, dragons are FICTIONAL.


Lizard bones:
http://rainbow.ldeo.columbia.edu/course ... eupark.gif

Bat bones:
http://www.earthlife.net/mammals/images ... t-skel.gif

Since dragon's are fictional, you can do whatever you like to make it work.

http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2011/ ... wings.html

[IsaiahCreek]

Yes, dragons are fictional. And, like you said they can be what ever someone wants them to be.

But that doesn't mean that they have to have bat-like wings. They can have whatever wings a person decides to give them. Saying a dragon should only have wings like a bat is a untrue statement.

Did you ever play or hear of the game Spyro, those were dragons and they did not have bat-like wings.

And this

I'm pretty sure people can have enough brain power to use a bat's wings on a dragon.

Is very rude. Like I said. All dragons do not have or have to have bat-like wings. They only do in your opinion.
Some dragons don't even have wings.

[Susiron]

Yes, dragons are fictional. And, like you said they can be what ever someone wants them to be.

But that doesn't mean that they have to have bat-like wings. They can have whatever wings a person decides to give them. Saying a dragon should only have wings like a bat is a untrue statement.

Did you ever play or hear of the game Spyro, those were dragons and they did not have bat-like wings.

And this

I'm pretty sure people can have enough brain power to use a bat's wings on a dragon.

Is very rude. Like I said. All dragons do not have or have to have bat-like wings. They only do in your opinion.
Some dragons don't even have wings.

If you make more sense of anatomy, bat-like wings make much more sense when it comes to lift off.
For the size and length of a dragon, it needs something to support the rump, to keep it airborn.

http://neondragon.deviantart.com/galler ... 4#/d2wjp1r

No one has to take my opinion on it, but if they want to keep their own, then dissing my ideas of the anatomy falls into the same category.

[IsaiahCreek]

Please listen.

You said that dragons a fictional. That means that their anatomy doesn't have to make sense. It is FICTIONAL.

Asian dragons don't have wings and they fly.

[KariCreek]

Isaiah, Breezye, stop it. This is their opinion.

I believe dragons and their wings can be drawn how-ever a person wants to, whether or not it makes anatomical sense. Dragons are fictional and it is left to a persons imagination as to how they should be drawn.

[IsaiahCreek]

Isaiah, Breezye, stop it. This is their opinion.

I believe dragons and their wings can be drawn how-ever a person wants to, whether or not it makes anatomical sense. Dragons are fictional and it is left to a persons imagination as to how they should be drawn.

Alright...........

[King of Crows]

I find it amusing you guys are even arguing over something so silly. Dragons are made up creatures, yes, however, the laws of physics and anatomy still apply if the artist wants it to be REALISTIC. So, realistically, a dragon is most likely to be able to fly with enlarged bat-like wings.

Oh, and dragons are not necessarily reptiles. Traditionally they are described as being large lizard like creatures, however, there is no true definition of what a dragon is, most of the dragons I draw, anymore, I consider mammals since they are warm blooded and tend to have fur on them. Saying "You know dragons are reptiles, right?" is really quite silly! That's like saying, "You know faeries have two wings, right?" who are you to decide what someone else's imagination comes up with?

Susiron is looking to make a dragon's flight more anatomically believable, so, naturally, they would give a creature wings, large wings that can support the whole of the body.

However, no one is stopping you from throwing logic aside and giving Asian dragons the magical ability to float. However, that is not flying. True flight, what birds and bats do, is using wings and flapping them to fly. Many beings glide, but they don't flap, and neither do Asian dragons, so saying that Asian dragons don't have wings and still fly is incorrect.

Now, onto the sketch! Susiron, I'd have to say this is very well done! However, I would advise making the fingers go out longer. Depending on the size of the dragon. If it's a small dragon, with smaller, easier to flap wings, then smaller wings are easier. However, if it's very large, the wings should be very, very large to allow for more gliding than flapping, since flapping requires enormous amounts of energy, and for a creature with very large wings to flap a lot, it is nearly impossible (scientifically speaking). Basically, the smaller the body, the more the wings can flap, the smaller the wings can be. The larger the body, the less the wings can flap, the larger the wings need to be.

I have seen quite a bit of your artwork about latley, you are certainly quite the artist! I look forwards to seeing more from you!

[Susiron]

I find it amusing you guys are even arguing over something so silly. Dragons are made up creatures, yes, however, the laws of physics and anatomy still apply if the artist wants it to be REALISTIC. So, realistically, a dragon is most likely to be able to fly with enlarged bat-like wings.

Oh, and dragons are not necessarily reptiles. Traditionally they are described as being large lizard like creatures, however, there is no true definition of what a dragon is, most of the dragons I draw, anymore, I consider mammals since they are warm blooded and tend to have fur on them. Saying "You know dragons are reptiles, right?" is really quite silly! That's like saying, "You know faeries have two wings, right?" who are you to decide what someone else's imagination comes up with?

Susiron is looking to make a dragon's flight more anatomically believable, so, naturally, they would give a creature wings, large wings that can support the whole of the body.

However, no one is stopping you from throwing logic aside and giving Asian dragons the magical ability to float. However, that is not flying. True flight, what birds and bats do, is using wings and flapping them to fly. Many beings glide, but they don't flap, and neither do Asian dragons, so saying that Asian dragons don't have wings and still fly is incorrect.

Now, onto the sketch! Susiron, I'd have to say this is very well done! However, I would advise making the fingers go out longer. Depending on the size of the dragon. If it's a small dragon, with smaller, easier to flap wings, then smaller wings are easier. However, if it's very large, the wings should be very, very large to allow for more gliding than flapping, since flapping requires enormous amounts of energy, and for a creature with very large wings to flap a lot, it is nearly impossible (scientifically speaking). Basically, the smaller the body, the more the wings can flap, the smaller the wings can be. The larger the body, the less the wings can flap, the larger the wings need to be.

I have seen quite a bit of your artwork about latley, you are certainly quite the artist! I look forwards to seeing more from you!

Thank you very much for bringing actual anatomical sense to this conversation. :3
And I think you're right about the lizard thing. I know that I've seen mammalian dragons, fish-liked dragons, just about ANY type of dragon.

I love Eastern dragons, but I really have never understood their function. I know some people have made up things like their scales have air under them, but I dunno... xD

Yeah, I've never been the best with the fingers on them, especially the length. That's primarily why I decided to do more study on bats, since it helps with the placement and anatomical structure. :3

B'aww, thank you! x)

And thank you VERY much for the critique on these wings.
I love getting a good critique. :3