Suggestion: Ban the Discussion of Harry Potter

[Hollypaws]

Harry Potter is a series riddled with antisemitism (the depiction of goblins), fatphobia, racism (including but not limited to a fantasy race that is happy to be enslaved, POC characters having names like an Asian girl named "Cho Chang" or in HP's latest entry...a black man named "Kinglsey Shacklebolt"), and more.


The author, JKR self admitted she sees financial support of Harry Potter as support of her views...all of her views.
One of the lead developers ran an "anti SJW" channel. JKR has used her immense wealth to harm the Jewish community with this recent game, and continues to harm the transgender community as well by continuing to donate her money to anti-trans causes. She has used her wealth to prevent the independence of Scotland. Hogwarts Legacy in particular is quite literally using blood libel as a plot, and literally references a real life historical riot against Jewish people, down to the year.

I don't think a series that's actively profiting off the backs of minorities should be discussed. It stops being "separate the art from the artist" when the artist is still alive. It's not "no ethical consumption under capitalism" when the media you're consuming is literal propaganda, and a luxury item at that. There's a difference between eating food from a mega-corp like Nestle when you don't have other options, and choosing to spend money (and yes, pirate) a game that's antisemitic to it's core. And no, I'm not against liking "problematic" media- I'm a fan of MLP:FIM, and I think it has it's own host of problems too. Notch, one of the people behind Minecraft turned out to be a huge bigot as well. But the thing is, using Minecraft as an example once Microsoft bought the game from him, Notch has received nothing monetarily since.

No royalties, his name was even removed from the game's credits, flavor text, achievments etc. By buying a game of Minecraft, you are not supporting Notch- any decision he makes to donate to immoral causes is on his dime, not yours. But by simply buying a Harry Potter themed Build-a-Bear, or Hogwarts Legacy, or going to Hogwarts at Universal Studios, JKR does get royalties...and unless she has a sudden realization that what she's been doing is horrible, then chances are it's going to get worse before it gets any better.

I can't speak for Jewish players, but as a nonbinary player of color I know that I would appreciate if CS did this. I don't think Harry Potter as a franchise deserves positive attention when it's hurting so many people, and given the fact that it's now shilling literal propaganda I think it shouldn't be allowed to be mentioned on this site.

[CHINARIZING]

I'm so sorry, since I understand you're affected by this, but no support. This easily leads into policing people's interests, and if HP becomes banned, then it opens up to a lot of other franchises being banned from here until it's pretty much nothing is allowed to be discussed. I don't wanna lean into the slippery slope fallacy but I feel like this is based off the recent (very online) discourse about Hogwarts Legacy.

Warriors is something I'd say is very very analogous to Harry Potter in this respect, and that's a series which has pets on here inspired by its characters. I'm a huge fan of it but there's no doubt that buying its books subscribes to HarperCollins' greed and anti-LGBTQIA+ publishing method, along with controversy surrounding the books' topics, writers, and more.

I know you mentioned that you're not against liking "problematic" media, but I feel like banning HP would go against that tenant. If a CS player enjoys Harry Potter and recognizes its flaws, I think it's fine. Yes, there are a lot of issues around it and its currently profiting author, but there's also a lot to like about HP.

If someone likes Harry Potter, they should be allowed to discuss it. You may request them to not talk about it in certain threads, or block them if necessary, but I don't see banning an entire (very beloved and nostalgic) series.

IMO this isn't an issue about Harry Potter, this is an issue about CS not having features like the ability to block/hide signatures, threads, and more. We're able to curate our experiences on other very social sites. Chicken Smoothie lacks a lot of those options (down to not being able to block staff) and unfortunately that means the only way to get rid of things that distress us are blanket bans.

[BeatrixDaybreak]

No support.

Dont get me wrong, I 100% understand why this is a concern of yours. I grew up loving Harry Potter, reading every book, collecting every piece of merchandise. But when I learned about JK and her actions and opinions against LGBTQIA+ individuals, not to mention the horrible things that had to due with minorities in her stories, I distanced myself. Since then, I have never bought official merch, I boycott all of it. I've even distanced myself very far from the franchise entirely in terms of how much I once viewed it. I'm not cis or straight, so everything that I learned really hurt.

But I dont believe banning the topic of Harry Potter entirely is the right direction. I dont even think its feasible. It would place a strong control on interests, and would cause even more pieces of media to fall into question. Tons of other medias come from problematic sources, and placing a ban on Harry Potter means ALL of those must be banned as well, leaving us with only a few pop culture things that we are allowed to discuss. After all, it wouldn't be fair to only apply that rule to one and not all.

Not to mention, that would put a lot of expectations on CS staff to know the source if each and every piece of media that may enter their site. The list of banned fandoms would be so long that people wouldn't even bother talking about media-related interests for fear that it may end up being not allowed.

Additionally, speaking on CS about Harry Potter does not line the pockets of JKR. I know that it may encourage a few people here and there to buy things, but they were likely going to do that anyway if they like Harry Potter. But much of the fandom just loves the world and the story, and does not feed into merch sales due to JKR's actions. They just want to talk about it, maybe roleplay, and connect to other people who like it too. I dont believe that should be limited just because some people might buy stuff.

I'd like to clarify, you're right to be upset. Your disdain for the franchise and JKR is COMPLETELY valid. But I just dont think that banning the topic is the right thing, much less feasible.

[Hollypaws]

No support.

Dont get me wrong, I 100% understand why this is a concern of yours. I grew up loving Harry Potter, reading every book, collecting every piece of merchandise. But when I learned about JK and her actions and opinions against LGBTQIA+ individuals, not to mention the horrible things that had to due with minorities in her stories, I distanced myself. Since then, I have never bought official merch, I boycott all of it. I've even distanced myself very far from the franchise entirely in terms of how much I once viewed it. I'm not cis or straight, so everything that I learned really hurt.

But I dont believe banning the topic of Harry Potter entirely is the right direction. I dont even think its feasible. It would place a strong control on interests, and would cause even more pieces of media to fall into question. Tons of other medias come from problematic sources, and placing a ban on Harry Potter means ALL of those must be banned as well, leaving us with only a few pop culture things that we are allowed to discuss. After all, it wouldn't be fair to only apply that rule to one and not all.

Not to mention, that would put a lot of expectations on CS staff to know the source if each and every piece of media that may enter their site. The list of banned fandoms would be so long that people wouldn't even bother talking about media-related interests for fear that it may end up being not allowed.

Additionally, speaking on CS about Harry Potter does not line the pockets of JKR. I know that it may encourage a few people here and there to buy things, but they were likely going to do that anyway if they like Harry Potter. But much of the fandom just loves the world and the story, and does not feed into merch sales due to JKR's actions. They just want to talk about it, maybe roleplay, and connect to other people who like it too. I dont believe that should be limited just because some people might buy stuff.

I'd like to clarify, you're right to be upset. Your disdain for the franchise and JKR is COMPLETELY valid. But I just dont think that banning the topic is the right thing, much less feasible.

The thing about Harry Potter is that unlike other controversial works like say, Steven Universe, or Voltron is that Harry Potter is again, actively funding someone abusing her power over people. Additionally, while it would be unfair to expect mods and staff to know every controversy of a given franchise...the problems within HP, it's author, and her other works have been loud and clear, especially as of late.

I am once again stressing that the problem with Harry Potter isn't exclusively that it has harmful tropes, but the fact JKR is explicitly using Harry Potter to harm other people. And the people who she's hurting actively have to live with that as we speak. While not all people who enjoy Harry Potter support her or her bigoted views, JKR sees support towards Harry Potter (though she was speaking of monetary support) as support of her and her beliefs regardless of whether or not people hate her while engaging with the series. Watching an episode of Miraculous Ladybug (to my knowledge) does not mean your purchase or support will continue to be used to put others down.

And like you said, someone simply roleplaying as Harry, or discussing their book collection, or suggesting people join them for a watch party of the movies isn't necessarily going to result in money going right to JKR. In fact, it might do the opposite- lead people to pirate or buy things secondhand to avoid direct support. But as I've tried to stress, there is urgent, active harm in the franchise at this point. I understand your position as someone who is also LGBTQ+ and an ex fan. But I can't fully sympathize with the fans. Not anymore. I think the livelihoods of people should take priority over the enjoyment of a book series, period.

I'm so sorry, since I understand you're affected by this, but no support. This easily leads into policing people's interests, and if HP becomes banned, then it opens up to a lot of other franchises being banned from here until it's pretty much nothing is allowed to be discussed. I don't wanna lean into the slippery slope fallacy but I feel like this is based off the recent (very online) discourse about Hogwarts Legacy.

Warriors is something I'd say is very very analogous to Harry Potter in this respect, and that's a series which has pets on here inspired by its characters. I'm a huge fan of it but there's no doubt that buying its books subscribes to HarperCollins' greed and anti-LGBTQIA+ publishing method, along with controversy surrounding the books' topics, writers, and more.

I know you mentioned that you're not against liking "problematic" media, but I feel like banning HP would go against that tenant. If a CS player enjoys Harry Potter and recognizes its flaws, I think it's fine. Yes, there are a lot of issues around it and its currently profiting author, but there's also a lot to like about HP.

If someone likes Harry Potter, they should be allowed to discuss it. You may request them to not talk about it in certain threads, or block them if necessary, but I don't see banning an entire (very beloved and nostalgic) series.

IMO this isn't an issue about Harry Potter, this is an issue about CS not having features like the ability to block/hide signatures, threads, and more. We're able to curate our experiences on other very social sites. Chicken Smoothie lacks a lot of those options (down to not being able to block staff) and unfortunately that means the only way to get rid of things that distress us are blanket bans.

I will admit that Hogwarts Legacy was the straw that broke the camels back, yes. And considering the fact it's pushing a dangerous narrative when antisemitism is on such a rise people like Kanye West are loudly and proudly declaring their hatred of Jewish people, combined with how JKR spends her wealth...I felt the need to say something.

Yes, Warriors is a comparable series. It has it's own issues with bigotry (such as it's anti indigenous writing). And yes, Harper Collins is rife with issues too. But the Erins, to my knowledge are not actively being cited by politicians who are actively against LGBTQ+ people like JKR is.

Gillian Philips, a TERF who worked on Survivors and Bravelands was fired after fans boycotted and emailed Harper Collins to show they wouldn't accept that kind of behavior in their communities. And as I pointed out, Harry Potter is actively pushing antisemitic propaganda, whether anyone likes it or not. I don't think a series that is causing palpable, actual harm when antisemitism and transphobia, as well as other forms of anti LGBTQ+ bigotry are all on the rise should be excused to spare the feelings of it's fans.

Yes, banning Harry Potter could lead to other series being suggested to be banned. But considering the fact that Harry Potter is one of the few franchises actively profiting a bigot who has no shame whatsoever in using her position and power to harm others, I think this is more than something that blocking can fix. It's one thing for a series to be flawed. It's another when it's flawed, being turned into literal propaganda and it (and it's creator) are actively being used to justify violence against minorities.

Again, like in my first comment, there is now a black character named Kingsley Shacklebolt.

And given the devs, it's undoubtedly an unsubtle jab at slavery. Genuinely speaking, is it really worth sparing fans feelings so they can happily talk about the series at this point? Because fans can decide they dislike Harry Potter after all of this, or won't speak about it publically anymore if they want to. But Jewish people, trans folk, Scottish people, poc, neurodivergent people and the other communities JKR continues to either spend money towards stamping out and/or speaking out against don't get the luxury of being able to put their book down and walk away from all this, or simply find somewhere else to talk about it. How bad do things have to get before the idea of taking this topic off the table is considered fine? Because I'd say given everything she's done up until this point, things are pretty dire compared to other problematic works.

If we don't disallow discussion now, after her IP just released a new game with antisemitism as it's plot, , then what happens when J.K.R inevitably gets even worse than she already is? How far is too far, if a series being framed in a positive light that's lining the pockets of someone who has shown she will only use her privilege to harm others is allowed to be discussed to spare the fans feelings? A Harry Potter fan can always talk about it offsite with friends. Even if this ban happened, Harry Potter is immensely loved in spite of what the author does with her support- for every place (if any place has even banned HP discussion...) that doesn't allow HP talk, there's more that do. A Harry Potter fan has plenty of options when it comes to places for discussion if CS stops being one for them.

[Madel]

I completely agree that Harry Potter is extremely hurtful, and JK is not a good person at all. I don't like her or the books at all. I think if the mods were to ban Harry Potter they would have to ban a lot of other things too. Unfortunately, there's countless pieces of media that actively profit off of horrible things.
I think it would just be too much work for the staff, theres a lot of media made and run by bad people.

[Nexius]

No support.

I completely understand where you're coming from however I don't see how this can realistically be implemented. It sets a precedent that CS will ban mention of anything with problematic origins or which funds unethical practices which is just unrealistic for such a small team to do considering how many popular public figures and corporations fund choose to give money to harmful causes. CS staff should not be expected to know every writer, director, influencer, executive producer, actor, etc. AND everything they're ever said AND where they choose to put their personal funds so that they may make a judgement on who is 'bad' enough to be banned from discussion. Plus who decides what goes on this list of harmful IP? Are we going to ban discussion of all problematic figures are well? Corporations? At what point does someone or something become 'bad' enough to be banned? It's just far to arbitrary to be realistically enforced and would create so many headaches and extra work for staff (most of which are volunteers not paid workers).

I understand why people might want this but I just don't see how it could be realistically done.

[Cerulean Wake]

im jewish and queer and I don't think discussion of harry potter should be banned. People are allowed to talk about something, even if the author is problematic, and banning discussion of something because the creator is bad would have you banning talking about lot of stuff (twilight, rick and morty, lovecraft, danny phantom, etc.)

TLDR; I don't like JK rowling or the stuff she has come to stand for, but to outright ban discussion of it is going to do more harm than good. Nothing positive will come out of banning discussion, and actually probably make people want to talk about it more. It will do the opposite of what you want

(plus its unrealistic to execute like a lot of other people have said.)

[Catsplat18]

No support. You do realize that if talking about Harry Potter/JK Rowling was banned, you wouldn't be able to criticize it or educate people on it either?

Censoring discourse is not the answer. That's how history is forgotten.

(Also, then... yeah we'd have to ban almost everything. 99% of the media we consume, at some point, lines some evil person's pockets. For example, Disney has lots of racist stuff they still profit from. So goodbye Disney, Pixar, Star Wars, and Marvel...)

[Cloverstream]

No support. You could, and people do- make arguments like this about literally anything. I mean you yourself mentioned a bunch of other children’s media as problematic. Clearly you yourself have strong opinions that you want to discuss. At the end of the day it’s a children’s book series and appropriate for the site. I haven’t read or watched Harry Potter myself, I just think banning discussions that are site age appropriate is a slippery slope. It’s good to be critical when you watch things, but this level of worry about what you watch and if you should receive consequences for even mentioning it doesn’t sound like it would make CS a healthy environment.

[Nicnova]

No support, I hate JKR and her views but I don't support censorship. And personally, as an enby person, I don't really mind if someone still likes Harry Potter or talks about it.

Again, like in my first comment, there is now a black character named Kingsley Shacklebolt.

And given the devs, it's undoubtedly an unsubtle jab at slavery.

Also, Kingsley Shacklebolt was always in the series. The devs of that game didn't create him, JKR did.