Suggestion: Monthly Discussions Rule Clarification

[Shian]

Okay this is needed NOW.
I've just seen a page of users rave about the horses.

TWO people say "They've never been a fan of horses" and this prompts a chewing out by an artist who scolds them for "throwing them in a trade folder before they grow." and "being ungrateful"

This snowballs into other users jumping onto the "I need to scold you for being ungrateful" wagon when nothing negative was actually said. There is NOTHING wrong with not liking one pet or another, nor is it disrespectful to say so. Unless I'm wrong? I totally could be. Who knows? I sure as hell don't.

Please stop this nonsense now. It's utterly ridiculous at this point and is ending up with hurt feelings on both sides.

[Cherry]

I saw that. I was wondering about why they got so upset, people were not being ungrateful, unless there were some deleted posts. They seemed a littled annoyed, yeah, but it certainly wasn't rude enough to be called out on.
Dogs are cool and all, but if the whole site were dogs, it would be boring. And this is coming from a dog lover.

Who cares if it isn't what you wanted? If you are a considerate person you won't say "I wanted a dog, waahh! I got a stupid pony!"
It's rude! THAT is insulting the artists, and you really don't need to say it.* It isn't against the rules, but it's rude. If you say, "I was hoping it was a dog, but this is better in some ways, here's why" or something along those lines it would be fine.

*They're taking it for granted. I agree with you Shian, though, and my post seems a little like I'm... what's the word... contradicting what you said or whatever, but I do agree with you. I don''t think people should say it, but it isn't against the rules. (that we know of.)

[nickjr]

Okay this is needed NOW.
I've just seen a page of users rave about the horses.

TWO people say "They've never been a fan of horses" and this prompts a chewing out by an artist who scolds them for "throwing them in a trade folder before they grow." and "being ungrateful"

This snowballs into other users jumping onto the "I need to scold you for being ungrateful" wagon when nothing negative was actually said. There is NOTHING wrong with not liking one pet or another, nor is it disrespectful to say so. Unless I'm wrong? I totally could be. Who knows? I sure as hell don't.

Please stop this nonsense now. It's utterly ridiculous at this point and is ending up with hurt feelings on both sides.

I think it's mostly the implied tone--there were smiley faces included that actually made me a little angry (such as :\--that really sets me off like nothing else) and I had to reread the thing before deciding not to post an inflammatory post xD;

even with different smiley faces (most of which wouldn't make sense, given the word choice), the post would still probably come off as rude simply because of word choice and the lack of positivity D:
(one of the words used ["meh"] definitely made me very irritated; I imagine that if the post was something like "Aw, horses. Oh well, maybe another day~" then I would have been fine [as you said, it's not disrespectful to voice a disliking of something--but it's really more how the disliking is voiced], but the combination of "meh" and ":\" actually made me think the user was disgusted with the horses. I'm probably completely wrong about that, but...)

now I see a potential problem with this rule: different words/phrasings/etc make different people angry, not to mention all of the different interpretations D: I imagine that not everyone wants to punch someone when they see "meh" or ":\"--in fact, I bet that there are people out there who will read those words and not bat an eyelash ^^;

but still, this rule is most definitely needed, I agree, if only for other potential cases D:

[Shian]

You and I must be looking at two totally different posts then. I didn't see any smilies used nor did I see the word "Meh" used. Maybe in a later post that happened?

I saw one poster say they didn't like CS horses overall. I saw another user agree. (in two pagess of raving about these horses) Then I saw an artist yelling at them for no reason. I'm guessing a post was deleted or something but really, if you're going to delete half a conversation at least have the decency to delte the other half so your staff members don't look like jerks. Especially when half of CS decides to run on the "SHHHAAAAMMMEEEE!" wagon.

[nickjr]

Whoops, I quoted a smiley incorrectly D: -headdesk- thought I saw ":\" but it was actually ":("; the person did use "meh" though

Aaaand I just did a more thorough search and discovered that while the original post was deleted, there's a post with a quote of the original post ^^; this was right before the artist posted their post ^^;

[Cherry]

I knew something was deleted! I don't even understand why people are unhappy about the horses! It's just… "Lets insult a GUEST ARTIST about their choice of coloring a horse!"

People really need to think about what they say when they post in the discussion threads. Even when I'm nice posting about something I dislike I feel guilty. Apparently not many other users feel that way…

[sylvre]

People really need to think about what they say when they post in the discussion threads. Even when I'm nice posting about something I dislike I feel guilty. Apparently not many other users feel that way…

This is precisely why I've been asking to have the rule updated. People are confused about what's acceptable to say and what isn't - we really need some examples because feeling guilty for providing polite, constructive criticism is silly.

[Shian]

While dislikes should not be disrespectful (Like, "Horses. Bleh"), there should be no reason whatsoever to post that I don't collect something or I'm not a fan of them. Didn't we go over this long ago about what counts and what doesn't count as "respectfully disagreeing"?

That guilt you're feeling when you're posting something nice is no doubt because of the people that come along and say "How rude!" after something so simple as "I don't like this outcome" is said. The minute you feel that you shouldn't post something because of the intense overreaction of the community/staff and not because what you're saying is wrong is nothing less than bullying IMO.

I don't feel that in two pages of "Oh how wonderful!" posts that two posts of "I don't like horses" is so terrible. Why are people treating it as such? Why are we SO focused on any little thing that could possibly be negative that we totally ignore the upteen pages of "I love this outcome!"?

You know, I used to wonder why people made CS blogs when there's a perfectly good forum here, but after looking at some of them and seeing the number of things so utterly wrong here, I think I'll go make a CS blog like everyone else so I can voice my unbiased opinions there.

That way I can finally say "I don't like this outcome." without a hundred people jumping on my back, not because what I said is inherently rude, but simply because other users feel like they can.

[Fat Unicorn]

Shian, you may want to calm down a bit. ^^ You're right, there's a perfectly good forum right here. And I take it you want to help improve the community, yes? Then you need to put these forums into use, not tumblr. And besides, you can always voice your opinions in private to a friend or a group of friends. :3
Any ho, let's hop back on topic.

I agree with Shian on people voicing their (negative) opinion, but I do believe that people that say that they don't like a certain outcome/design/etc should at least offer constructive critique for the artist.

If artists personally feel that they can't accept constructive critique, then, if I were in their place, I would reconsider how I am reading (and taking in) the negative feedback, reconsider the artist position, or ask the community not to post any critique on their design.

/sorry that sounded a bit mean ;.;"

[Shian]

Yes, I do want to help the community with all my heart. To be perfectly honest, (Though I don't enjoy admitting it) I had no small part in getting us the second re-release last year because of what the community put fourth. I don't like seeing all this conflict within the community and I want to help make it back to what it was somehow.

Want to know why I'm making a Tumblr and going there?
Because this is the current topic on Tumblr right now.

Something that was brought up almost a full year ago and absolutely nothing has been done about it since even though it's a pretty high priority for the cohesiveness of the community.
I even asked a status about it in July and have been counting every single post made in this topic related to board warning or bannings what-have-you since that post was first made. It hurts to see this kind of thing where people are being punished for rules that aren't written anywhere. People have resorted to going to Tumblr because of it so I'll do the same.

Yes, I'll certainly help out here when I can but in all honesty, I'll just say my piece here and that's it. No more bumping every half year.... a full year. No more 'whining' from me on what can possibly be improved.