Do You Ride Horses? V.4

[ryukrem]

Anybody have experience with healing shoulder injuries?

Alice has been off for a few weeks now and we figured out it is her shoulder. We are guessing she cast herself or slipped on the ice. I know it's an injury that unfortunately takes time, but anybody have any success stories with this type of problem? Right now she's just getting walked with a small amount of trot to keep her loose and stretched.

[danheng]

Anybody have experience with healing shoulder injuries?

Alice has been off for a few weeks now and we figured out it is her shoulder. We are guessing she cast herself or slipped on the ice. I know it's an injury that unfortunately takes time, but anybody have any success stories with this type of problem? Right now she's just getting walked with a small amount of trot to keep her loose and stretched.

sort of, but not really an injury. sheba carries all her weight in her shoulders so she gets incredibly sore there. it's usually, for us, just a matter of displacing her weight for her and massaging her muscles where she's sore.

[Faded...]

Hello! I'd love to join the chat~
So, there's this one thing I wanted to ask other equestrians (or, those who have at least a little bit of experience in horse training!)
I have a 16 year old fjord horse mare that I take care of. She's fairly green, (she was in training for a year I believe) and knows nothing but the absolute basics. (halt, walk, trot, and turning left or right) Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but her owner would like to see her improve under the saddle. Since I'm the only one riding her, I find it difficult to teach her things while riding. I've been riding for 6 years now, twice a week, so I'd say I should have about moderate skills. We ride légèreté, that means that anything forceful is out of question. The main things im trying to focus on are walking backwards, her flexibility while turning (she likes to just walk a straight line instead of bending to the side) and canter. She CAN do these without being ridden while lunging or in the roundpen, but does not react when given the aids. The first thing i've tried is getting her to walk backwards: I made contact to her mouth by putting my hands up and turning my fists, put my calves back and squeezed lightly. However, she just started walking forwards. Second would be flexibility: It takes way too much effort to get her to walk a curve, even though she does go to the actual direction I want her to. I use my inner leg, weight and reins, please correct me if i'm doing something wrong or unclear. Third, canter: she does canter pretty nice and "fluently", but It feels wonky and i feel like shes putting way too much weight on her front feet if you get what I mean. I try to get her to pick up her head a bit more, but she just slows down to a really fast trot. So, what exactly am I doing wrong? Suggestions would be greatly appreciated! <3

For the backing up i would try doing on the ground first. Also with turning take just a halter and lead rope and do this on both sides stand by her neck and with your right or left hand sorta push behind the girth and pull a little on the leadrope and get her to take a step with her back hoof and keep doing that till she can go into a full circle with her back feet. ( make sure you always do it on both sides you probably know about the too brains thing )Then with the front hooves push on the shoulder and make yourself look big and push her frond feet into a circle doing it step by step until she got it down. this might help with getting her to move out better. Hope this helps

[sheepish]

@Lilus, Hahaha, I know the struggle of a horse who wants to be on their forehand all the time. My trainer had me keep moving my mare in a circle, trying to get her to come down and relax before working on the forehand matter. After that, it was getting her to bend at the poll (not a crazy amount, but enough to offer a bit more contact), and gently guiding her head to one side (enough to see her eye) and then the other. While I don't know if it'll help the forehand issue for you, this is what saved my rear from going off to the races and finding some collection.

Speaking of all this, it's been nearly six months since I rode. The poor gal has some soundness issues that came out of the blue, though we suspect that it was an old injury showing it's ugly head from her previous careers of reigning and team penning.

[Livid-Silver]

Just a quick reply cause stuff has been soooooo busy lately, but hopefully will chill out soon.

@Lilus; I've broken in my own horses so I am pretty familiar with green lol If she really is as green as you say, establishing basics is probably your main priority at the moment- move forward and straight, steady, woah/halt and respond when asked. Doesn't have to be the 'right' response but you want them to give it a go when you ask something.
To answer your specfic questions, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say you raise your hands and turn your fists when you ask her to back. All you should need to do is close your fingers and apply a bit of leg, but it sounds like she is getting confused. With this, I have found that moving your legs back when asking for a back, leaning forward slightly or wiggling in the saddle a little if they get really really stuck. You down want to pull them back from their mouth, just keep the pressure steady until she gives. You might not get a full step back in the beginning, but as soon as she thinks 'back' you've got to give, release all aids and praise. Eventually you'll get one step and you can build on that. Using a word cue can also be really helpful with this kind of thing can be super helpful too!
Flexibility comes with time and insisting she works correctly, that is straight and through. I'd say she is probably throwing her shoulders in or out and avoiding loading her inside hind or whichever hind leg is weaker. Her breed is also against her a bit, as they are usually short and stocky especially through the neck, which can make is hard for them to get the level of bend a 'standard' riding horse would be able too. You really need to make sure you're riding her out to the bridle so she stays long in the neck and open in her jowl. That will help you get her soft through her poll and neck, she physically won't be able to bend if she's all jammed up. Use your thighs to help her turn, save your lower leg for laterals/ providing support. This is where the whole idea of turning from the outside rein comes from. Push her around the circle with your outside tigh, provide support with your lower inside leg. It doesn't need to actively push or do anything, unless she starts falling in. Then pressure until she moves of it and straightens up, release as soon as she gives. If she really doesn't listen to your leg, use a whip to back it up. You don't have to wack her with it, but sometimes just a little tickle is enough to get their attention back on what your asking.
Canter will come with time. I'd say she isn't really working up over her back or 'sitting' with her hind legs just yet, so the canter will feel very downhill and clunky. If she isn't straight (that wonky feeling), it will feel even worse. Just lifting her head at this stage is probably more likely to do more harm than good, as she'll probably drop her back. Think of it like a lever system, if the head is up the back is down. Of course don't let her canter along with her nose in the dirt, but don't expect a GP head carriage just yet First checklist to go through (this is with all your riding not just the caner work) is to make sure your position is good and you are sitting straight and even in the saddle. If not, your horse is pretty much certainly wonky too. Then get her dead straight under you, kinda imagine you are riding down a narrow corridor and she has to stay within the boundaries of that corridor. Next get her forward and moving out to your hands and she should start to work over her back and through her body. This should improve all her gaits
To have a chance at a good canter, you must make sure the trot is quality before you ask and make sure she is on the aids and in front of your leg. If you let her run into the canter, you'll loose the quality of the gait and be back at square one. Short spurts of quality canter is miles better than long runs of cruddy canter.
Transitions within a gait are an excellent way of building up their muscle and improving impulsion, but she must be straight first. Lengthen and shorten the gait and she'll start to develop that pushing power. Its usually the easiest to feel after you've gotten them into the shortest trot they can manage and then push them out into the longest trot they can manage. That first one or two stride is where you'll feel it and eventually you can build on it. It can be done in the walk, trot and canter and is awesome for improving their gaits! Anyway, I will stop rambling at this point but if you've got any more questions or anything, I'm always up for a chat, dressage is my special interest lol
And people think its easy

[APH Italy]

So I'm hoping to start showing this season. (English) They would be all flat classes, as my horse has stiff hindquarters and cant jump. So I figure I'll have to buy show clothes soon, but I was hoping for show advice from those who have done it before-

[Lilus]

For the backing up i would try doing on the ground first. Also with turning take just a halter and lead rope and do this on both sides stand by her neck and with your right or left hand sorta push behind the girth and pull a little on the leadrope and get her to take a step with her back hoof and keep doing that till she can go into a full circle with her back feet. ( make sure you always do it on both sides you probably know about the too brains thing )Then with the front hooves push on the shoulder and make yourself look big and push her frond feet into a circle doing it step by step until she got it down. this might help with getting her to move out better. Hope this helps

thanks! I do these things almost every day with her, and it's definitely getting better,
but sometimes she hesitates to even make a move, lol.

[Lilus]

Just a quick reply cause stuff has been soooooo busy lately, but hopefully will chill out soon.

@Lilus; I've broken in my own horses so I am pretty familiar with green lol If she really is as green as you say, establishing basics is probably your main priority at the moment- move forward and straight, steady, woah/halt and respond when asked. Doesn't have to be the 'right' response but you want them to give it a go when you ask something.
To answer your specfic questions, I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say you raise your hands and turn your fists when you ask her to back. All you should need to do is close your fingers and apply a bit of leg, but it sounds like she is getting confused. With this, I have found that moving your legs back when asking for a back, leaning forward slightly or wiggling in the saddle a little if they get really really stuck. You down want to pull them back from their mouth, just keep the pressure steady until she gives. You might not get a full step back in the beginning, but as soon as she thinks 'back' you've got to give, release all aids and praise. Eventually you'll get one step and you can build on that. Using a word cue can also be really helpful with this kind of thing can be super helpful too!
Flexibility comes with time and insisting she works correctly, that is straight and through. I'd say she is probably throwing her shoulders in or out and avoiding loading her inside hind or whichever hind leg is weaker. Her breed is also against her a bit, as they are usually short and stocky especially through the neck, which can make is hard for them to get the level of bend a 'standard' riding horse would be able too. You really need to make sure you're riding her out to the bridle so she stays long in the neck and open in her jowl. That will help you get her soft through her poll and neck, she physically won't be able to bend if she's all jammed up. Use your thighs to help her turn, save your lower leg for laterals/ providing support. This is where the whole idea of turning from the outside rein comes from. Push her around the circle with your outside tigh, provide support with your lower inside leg. It doesn't need to actively push or do anything, unless she starts falling in. Then pressure until she moves of it and straightens up, release as soon as she gives. If she really doesn't listen to your leg, use a whip to back it up. You don't have to wack her with it, but sometimes just a little tickle is enough to get their attention back on what your asking.
Canter will come with time. I'd say she isn't really working up over her back or 'sitting' with her hind legs just yet, so the canter will feel very downhill and clunky. If she isn't straight (that wonky feeling), it will feel even worse. Just lifting her head at this stage is probably more likely to do more harm than good, as she'll probably drop her back. Think of it like a lever system, if the head is up the back is down. Of course don't let her canter along with her nose in the dirt, but don't expect a GP head carriage just yet First checklist to go through (this is with all your riding not just the caner work) is to make sure your position is good and you are sitting straight and even in the saddle. If not, your horse is pretty much certainly wonky too. Then get her dead straight under you, kinda imagine you are riding down a narrow corridor and she has to stay within the boundaries of that corridor. Next get her forward and moving out to your hands and she should start to work over her back and through her body. This should improve all her gaits
To have a chance at a good canter, you must make sure the trot is quality before you ask and make sure she is on the aids and in front of your leg. If you let her run into the canter, you'll loose the quality of the gait and be back at square one. Short spurts of quality canter is miles better than long runs of cruddy canter.
Transitions within a gait are an excellent way of building up their muscle and improving impulsion, but she must be straight first. Lengthen and shorten the gait and she'll start to develop that pushing power. Its usually the easiest to feel after you've gotten them into the shortest trot they can manage and then push them out into the longest trot they can manage. That first one or two stride is where you'll feel it and eventually you can build on it. It can be done in the walk, trot and canter and is awesome for improving their gaits! Anyway, I will stop rambling at this point but if you've got any more questions or anything, I'm always up for a chat, dressage is my special interest lol
And people think its easy

whoops, to clarify things, she is not "green" green, but more like halfway green, if that makes sense. I guess she just wasn't really taught all of that? And since i've never had any real experience with training fresh horses, I guess we aren't the best combo but shes still a sweetheart, haha. About the raising the hands thing: it's just the "applying pressure" executed a bit differently, since we tend to ride with loose reins. I don't know whether it's used in any other riding styles or not, but that's what we use in legerete. (or, at least, that's what i've been taught) I've never tried leaning forward while attempting to back her up, but i'll definetly try it out,
thank you! I've been trying to get her used to the whip and she's doing just fine, but i'm not really comfortable with riding her with one yet, as she generally responds way too quick for my liking. Most of the time she's okay with me touching her with it, but sometimes she'll just start trotting way too fast, which has been a problem in the past even without the whip. So, I'm scared that'll just bring that habit back, if that's possible? So, should I just let her canter until she'll get a bit more collected? It's been impossible to get her to change the pace in a gait, except for trot, so i guess i'm just a bit discouraged here lol. I did a lot of halts with her lately, and she even stops from a trot without using the reins at all, so i guess i managed to get her to do SOMETHING, haha. thanks so much for your reply! also, I'm glad you do dressage! dressage riders are hard to meet these days, at least in germany ;; I used to take dressage lessons but i quit at L**, sigh.

[Livid-Silver]

@Lilius; if you think she isn't established in the basics, it always pays to go back and keep working on them. They are the foundation for literally everything else. Even as you progress up the levels, it always comes back down to the same basics- rhythm and relaxation. Once you've got those, everything else should come and if you step up and loose some of the relaxations/rhythm then you go back and establish it before moving on. Its like constant thing of two steps forward, one step back but it really does help in the long run.
I only asked about the hands thing because it was a bit confusing for me to imagine. I'd expect, when you raise your hands to back her up, you are actually causing the bit to act on her lips and stopping her from 'holding' the bit in her mouth and supporting it with her tongue. This would cause her to lift her head and hollow her back, which isn't want you want. It might be confusing her if she's had some prior training too, most horses are taught to back with just a slight increase in rein pressure, but not moving the hands up or down while asking. It is an interesting concept. Whatever you end up picking, you just need to be super consistent and clear with your aids. Make it obvious that this is for back, even if you have to over-exaggerate for a little while (eg. leaning right forward, not the rein pressure). You can always make the aids more subtle and it is no use starting subtle if the horse ends up confused.
Also another thing that might be contributing to all your problems is inconsistency in the contact. I know you say you ride with loose reins, but if we're talking dressage, collection and contact, you can't start with 'loose reins', that's the end result I'm not saying you need to wack side reins on her or ride her up into a really strong contact or anything like that, just that she might need a little more support than what you're currently giving her at the moment. Like if you feel she is on the forehand/falling in/not flexing ect. pick up a tiny amount of contact so you can just feel the corners of her mouth. When she balances herself and goes nicely again, you can give that contact away. Hopefully, she'll start lengthening her neck and opening up through the gullet while staying over her back. This would help her flexibility enormously; a lot of the 'draft' type horses can get very jammed up in the gullet since they've usually got short thick necks. She needs to telescope her neck and carry the weight using the muscles over her top line, but you've got to show her how to 'get' there first. Its a very difficult concept to try and explain >.<
If you don't want to carry a whip while riding, you can always teach her voice cues Like start on the ground, put pressure where your leg would be and say 'over' or whatever word you want to use. Once she knows it on the ground, you can use the same thing under saddle- if you put leg on and she doesn't listen, you can say 'over' as a verbal cue to remind her. In that way, it kinda acts a little bit like the whip, it catches her attention. Verbals cues are actually super super helpful for all things dressage and I highly reccomend them! You could even teach her something like 'steady' for when she goes to get too quick, like a verbal half halt. I find a lot of horses respond really well to verbal cues as well
With the changes of pace, it certainly pays to teach her these as soon as you can but as I said before, its no use if she isn't established in her rhythm yet. The idea behind changes within a gait is that they lengthen or shorten their stride, without changing their rhythm and eventually all of this can be done off your seat. For the first few times, you'll probably have to chase her forwards a bit, but if she is set in her rhythm, she'll realise she doesn't need to go any faster, just longer. Same with the slow, she'll probably break gait and walk but once it clicks for her, you shouldn't have too much trouble
If you are worried about her canter, just do small amounts often rather than large amounts sometimes. Something I've found really helpful is to canter half a circle and then trot the other half. Once you've done it a few times, the horse's usually start to anticipate and will get ready for each transition on their own because it is a predictable exercise. The canter portions are short and she'll be thinking 'trot' almost as soon as she's completed a few strides (depending on your circle size) which should stop her from getting fast and just running on. Dressage is really about communicating complex ideas to the horse in a manner they can understand and letting them figure out what it is they need to do. Which is why you must always reward the try and not get cross when they offer the wrong answer. They've got to have the mental 'space' to work in when you ask something new or you'll just end up with a horse that panics when they don't think they've answered correctly.
Overral, I think you are on the right track from what you've said so don't be discouraged! You must remember, you don't 'start' with the 'end' product. Like my comment about contact earlier, sometimes what you begin with is not even close to what you'll finish with, but it might be necessary steps to take along the way so the horse understands and learns Dressage is as much a mental exercise as it is a physical one for both horse and rider, so if something really isn't working, don't be afraid to take a break and find a different way of asking. Take your time and enjoy the journey If you ever get the chance, I'd love to see some video of your mare!

[ryukrem]

A month and a half in and my horse is still not sound. It went from us thinking it was her hoof, to her shoulder, and now her hoof again. Now she has rubber pads on her front feet to see if it's a sole issue, but I'm doubtful because she's never had this problem before. She's been hand-walked or lunged at walk for the past month. On Friday I'm going to try riding her again and see if there is any improvement. If not, a vet call will have to be made.

The most frustrating aspect about this is that we were doing so good. Our frame and impulsion was coming along. She was gaining proper topline muscles and using her back more and more. Everything was coming together and we were almost ready to start training for First Level for the upcoming show season, but it all came crashing down so fast.

Not looking for critique on my equitation at the moment. I know what I need to work on, just showing our progress from where we used to be. I miss my active, happy, healthy Alice.